Scouting Emblem Question...

[kenpen 10]

One of my boys just had a board of review and got stumped on a question. He was asked, At the bottom of the Scouting emblem, what kind of knot is at the bottom? The tester said that it was an overhand knot. However, where it discusses the emblem in the book (Page ten), there is nothing about the KIND of knot. It says what the knot is there for, but not the type. I tried googling it, but I didnt find anything about that knot. Can someone help with this?

[AlFansome 10]

Oooh, oooh...I'll try first...

 

How about a Lark's Head?

 

http://www.ehow.com/how_13480_make-larks-head.html

 

[kenpen 10]

Are you sure? The Cowshead knot (or Lark's head, as you say) has to be tied on to something. The one on the badge is freestanding.

[Gold Winger 9]

My recent handbooks are mum on that question but I opened my 1936 edition and it says the knot is a "simple overhand knot."

[kenpen 10]

Your 1936 version?! For those of us who dont have such old copies, how are we supposed to know what that thing is?!

 

Thanks, though, for answering my question! =D

[AlFansome 10]

The pic at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:First_Class.svg show that there's a loop/ring under the "Be Prepared" banner onto which the knot is attached. From looking at it closer, though it looks like you must have a loop of thread/rope to start with, since there's no beginning or end to the line that I can see.

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

"Your 1936 version?! For those of us who dont have such old copies, how are we supposed to know what that thing is?!"

 

It's also in my 1942 edition. :-)

[gcnphkr 11]

It is a type of overhand on a bight making a hitch. I doubt it has a formal name because it is a needlessly complicated and relatively useless knot.

 

Make a bight and tie an overhand knot in it (Not a slip knot, be careful). Now run the bight through the ring and bring it back down through the knot. You may need to jigger it a bit to make it look right, but it does work. I've no idea what you would use it for other than making a big loop on a ring.(This message has been edited by jet526)

[fgoodwin 23]

kenpen, welcome to the Forums.

 

Since the tester alleges it is an overhand knot, ask him where the Scout was supposed to learn that.

 

If it isn't in the Boy Scout HB, then shame on him for expecting the Scout to know something that isn't covered in the manual.

[kenpen 10]

Jet526, that sounds so complicated! Argh, knot tying was never one of my strong points. But I'll file that away in the event that I need to use it!

 

And thank you, fgoodwin, I wanted to say that too. If it's not in the book, I think it should be barred from formal examinations. Right?

[NeilLup 13]

"If it isn't in the Boy Scout HB, then shame on him for expecting the Scout to know something that isn't covered in the manual. "

 

"And thank you, fgoodwin, I wanted to say that too. If it's not in the book, I think it should be barred from formal examinations. Right?"

 

 

ARGGGGGH!!! The Board of Review is NOT AN EXAMINATION. If it is, there are really serious problems. If there is retesting going on, then there are really, really, really serious problems. And the only reason I can see for being bothered by this question would be if the Board of Review were a retest.

 

If the Scout is doing well on the Board of Review, I have no problem at all with a fun Scouting trivia question like this asked in a friendly way with no particular expectation that the Scout will know the answer. It simply is the case that the Scout cannot be failed or marked down for failing to know the answer and should be told that by the members of the Board. This is part of a fun discussion. A Board of Review should be friendly, kind and fun.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

What Neil said!

[FScouter 24]

Another stump the idiot Scout question is "what are the three parts of the Scout Oath?" to which there is no answer or discussion in the Handbook.

[fgoodwin 23]

Neil, I don't have a problem with asking a Scout to explain one of his patches as an ice-breaker.

 

But I've never tried to "stump" a Scout by asking him something he wouldn't reasonably be expected to learn from the normal advancement program or something in his daily life.

 

If this was a case of an adult trying to show the Scout how much he knows, then extra shame on him.

[SSScout 1616]

kenpen: Welcome to the virtual crackerbarrel. Pull up an invisible bench (see classic skits) and get comfortable.

Good Question.

Nielup has the bear's share of the answer.

1) The BoR is not a 'final exam' pass/fail, or graded.

2) The 'knot' is, traditionally, an "overhand knot", but like jet526 sez, it would be hard to duplicate it as an actual, useful, recognized knot. I like his instructions. My older manuals all mention the bottom knot as an 'overhand' knot, and mention it's symbology: "the knot on the scroll reminds you of your obligation to do a good turn daily". Unfortunately,the type of knot is missing from my son's manual.

3) The knot hangs from the 'scroll', which is a part of the Second Class, First Class and Eagle badges. The First Class badge is de facto the BSA symbol, and is also within the Star badge, and the Life badge, so the knot is also included in ALL BSA badges. Must be important somehow, huh?

4) The knot appears to me to be more a 'hank' than a 'knot'. A hank is a bunch of rope or cord one would hang on your belt just to have a length of cord with you for whatever use . Practice your knots, throw for a rescue, tie up something, hang something from a tree limb, harrass your little brother, whatever. Be Ready, right? Or Available, or well equipped or...

5) The knots on the metal pin/badges are a twist of wire, not a knot. On big wall mounted carvings, I have seen carved knots and attempts at hanks with small cords. But not a simple overhand knot.

6) I seem to remember an older Scout book that counseled tying a knot in a loop of string (on one's belt? in the pocket? around the finger? don't remember that) and when one's 'daily good turn' was done, the knot would be untied. Tie it again the next morn, and repeat as possible.

But why stop at only one good turn?

 

Does that tie things up?

 

(This message has been edited by SSScout)