Ideal Boards of Review

[TheScout]

I started this thread out of wonder what, if the BSA let you choose, would be your ideal Board of Review. This is just speculation since the BSA has rules on such things. But it seems that there are many different thoughts and views of how they should be conducted.

 

My ideal Board of Review would be as follows. I would allow older scouts of the troop, as approved by the Scoutmaster. I would also allow them to retest. This would go a long way to making sure scouts have the knowledge and skills they are supposed to have before they advance. We all know some scouts advance without knowing what they should.

 

I must confess the troop I participated in as a youth operated BOR's in this fashion despite its contradictions with BSA policy. The troop I am in now does it by the regulations. However I must admit that I admire the way the Boards were conducted as a youth. The older scouts did an admirable job of taking their responsibilities seriously and I think they were able to counsel younger scouts in such a way to make the Board of Review process more meaningful than just talking to adults.

 

Just my two cents. If you got to design the Boards of Review how would you do it?

[GernBlansten]

I've only been involved in BORs within our troop so I don't know if we are the exception or the rule. But its my opinion that by the time the scout gets to the BOR, its just a formality. Nobody ever fails.

 

I like the idea of the troop youth leadership conducting the BOR. Let them decide who advances. Perhaps with an impartial adult advisor and the SPL. Even better, make up the BOR of those youth with one rank greater than the candidate. A BOR of Star scouts for a Star candidate. Eagle scouts for an Eagle candidate. Pull from other troops if you don't have enough scouts at a particular rank for the BOR.

Would that be the optimal boy lead troop?

[Trevorum]

Our troop does BoRs by the regs, but we use an extra step in the advancement process that involves the older boys. After a fellow has completed all the requirements (T-2-1) he requests a conference with an Instructor (Star or above). The Instructor is the first line of testing and they take it seriously. They use a checksheet and both sign. The Instructor Conference usually happens at meetings and so it generally does not cause any delay. The candidate then takes the signed checksheet to an ASM for the SM conference.

[Lisabob]

I like the idea of boys for T-2-1 having an instructor conference first to ensure they actually know and remember the skills.

 

I also like the idea of including a more advanced scout on the BOR - perhaps the SPL/ASPL. My observation (just our troop) is that ASPLS don't seem to be doing much anyway. Give them a voice here.

 

I wouldn't make up the entire board with scouts though. Then you get into the same issues of oversight and accountability that I sometimes see when we allow more advanced scouts to sign the books. Some take this more seriously than others. Some do play favorites, or at least are a lot harder on the couple of kids in the troop who are not so well liked and maybe have trouble fitting in. Yes, a good SM should/could keep an eye out for this but it seems to invite more difficulty, whereas having a mix of adults and higher-ranked scouts would provide the troop leadership with input while also avoiding these kinds of problems.

 

I think any discussion of scout spirit would benefit greatly from the presences of the troop youth leadership on the BOR. How can BOR members - many of whom don't camp or sometimes even attend troop meetings regularly, really know if there are scout spirit issues? Maybe if the scout himself admits to such, but having the SPL/ASPL or other troop leadership who camp regularly with the scout be involved would help here. Not over-riding the SM decision, but having that conversation in a more serious way at the BOR is what I mean here.

 

My "ideal" BOR would always, always start with the Scout Oath and Law. There's debate about this I know. But I think this is a reasonable request and sets the tone. We're here to talk about (among other things) how the boy understands those two items in his daily life. At an Eagle BOR recently I got told by one of our district advancement folks that we shouldn't be doing that because it might scare the boy. Hmm, then maybe the boy isn't quite ready for Eagle rank if he's that easily thrown by a request to repeat something he has been repeating weekly (or more) for several years. Note that I'm not of the opinion that a boy who "flubs" it should automatically be rejected for advancement. Give him opportunities to get back on track, maybe (esp at lower ranks) even start out saying it with him to jump start him.

 

Beyond that, my "ideal" BOR would consist of adults who were well-trained to do a BOR and who would get beyond the "fluff" questions. I sat on a Life board a little while ago that I found so unsatisfactory. One member wanted to just talk about how to get to Eagle (some advising is great but this boy's promotion to Life was far from guaranteed so it seemed a little out of place to focus so heavily on Eagle). One threw softball after softball to a young man who needs to have some hard questions directed at him based on his apparent lack of concern about his leadership role and recent behavioral issues. I don't think this is uncommon and it sometimes stems from lack of knowledge about how to conduct a good BOR.

 

Along those lines - I think everyone who is a member of a BOR should serve as an observer on a few BORs first to get a feel for the process.

 

Finally, my "ideal" BOR would conclude by having the BOR chair and the SM sit down for a five minute summary (after the decision about advancement had been made and communicated to the boy). What strengths and weaknesses came out in the BOR, regarding the program? There has to be good communication back to the SM in order for the BOR-as-program-review to work.

 

I realize the last two (good BOR training and communication w/ SM) of these CAN happen now, under the current system. My guess is that they seldom do in many troops though, or else we wouldn't have so many discussions of BORs on this forum. I know I see these as weak areas in my own son's troop. It is difficult to change status quo though, so that's why I'm including these on my "ideal" wish list.

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Ah, Lisa'bob, I love you. Include youth, but with adults. Find good BOR people, train them and let them gain experience as observers. Good communication with the boy and SM. Tackle real issues. Amen, sistah!

 

Yah, da best BOR's I've sat on start with what Lisa'bob highlights: BOR members who are knowledgeable (about the kid and program) and who are good at talking to kids. So many boards I've been on have adults who don't connect well with kids, don't ask very kid-friendly questions, and especially who don't listen well.

 

The best BOR's I've been on have almost always taken longer than the BSA 10-15 minutes. Once a boy is at ease, these things are fun, eh? They shouldn't be exhausting, but they should naturally run their course depending on the boy's attention span.

 

Da best BOR's are tailored to the boy - the people know the boy well enough to challenge him, give him good feedback, and to let him shine. I remember a 2nd Class BOR in one troop that spent 30+ minutes just on First Aid, because the boy was on fire he was so excited about being asked tough, thoughtful first aid questions. Dat led to conversations about his experiences in the troop, and safety, and oath and law, and future plans for high school coursework and MB's.

 

I like there to be some skill questions. It affirms the work the boy has done, and supports the learning part of the program as being important. Yah, it's also a much easier icebreaker for a boy to answer something concrete like "How would you remove a tick?" than somethin' like "How does the 9th point of the Scout Law pertain to citizenship?"

 

I don't mind troops that retest on BOR's, though I think it is easier to handle in other ways and can get out of hand. I don't care much at all for BOR's that become an exam requiring 100% to pass.

 

I really don't like the short, nothing-but-fluff BOR's. Just seems disrespectful to a kid who has worked hard, and to the adults who are spendin' their time to come in for the evening. It doesn't provide useful feedback, or really help a boy develop confidence in an interview-like situation. Seen more and more of these lately, tho', under the mantra of "do not retest."

 

I think most troops need a BOR to say "not yet" at least once every couple of years. Just to keep things serious, keep standards up, respond to the lad who's sneakin' by on minimal effort. Da SM and PLC need someone else to be "the heavy" sometimes. In a troop with good communication, they even tip the BOR off, eh?

 

There's a certain informal-but-serious tone I like in BOR's. Dat's kinda hard to describe, eh? Not all salutes and such, but not totally laid back either. Friendly, but solid.

 

Those are just my personal preferences, o' course. Really, I think an ideal BOR matches the spirit and character of a troop, and serves the troop by bein' what the troop needs it to be.

[John-in-KC]

I'm somewhat aboard with both Lisa and Beavah.

 

Older Scouts (in a perfect world, Eagles) who show the maturity should be allowed to learn a bit about "the other side" of the interview. It's going to help them as they apply for colleges and jobs.

 

That said, the BOR is the pinnacle of the Adult Association Method. I want adults there, because we want to be role models as these young men grow and mature, day by day.

 

I like what Beavah said about using the skills, particularly at T-2-1, as the icebreaker to a conversation. It's not fun when the BOR has to coax each answer out of the Scout. It's more fun when you push the right button and the youth starts running like an old wind-up car... ZOOM!

 

From my experience, T-2-1 seem to run about 20 minutes with the Scout, Star and Life a bit over 30 minutes, and the EBOR ... well, I've seen some just keep going and going ... because everyone was having a good conversation. A memorable EBOR was where the Guest asked "Do we even need to take a vote?", we all said no, kept the conversation going another half hour even as we signed the papers in front of the new Eagle.

[scoutingagain]

I've mentioned this before (and have been chastised for it) but at our BORs occaisionally a question will be asked that asks the scout to essentially re-explain or demonstrate a rank advancement requirement. This primarily occurrs in BOR for Tenderfoot through First Class. Now, we have NEVER not allowed a scout to advance if they do not answer one of these questions correctly. As far as the Board is concerned and the way we run advancement, is if the requirement was demonstrated to a guide, instructor or adult leader and signed off, the requirement was met. But, the boys know they may be asked these types of questions, and most take the time to review the knowledge and skills areas of their rank. This helps them eventually master these skills and knowledge as they progress in scouting.

 

Now this is one area I will tend to sound like Bob White. In this instance I think the BSA has it right. The BOR is one of the areas the boys get involved with the "Adult Association" method. There are plenty of other opporuntities for them to interact with older scouts in terms of instruction of skills, led by during meetings, outings, etc. and advancement testing. The BOR is one of the mechanisms set up for scouts to interact with adults and Beav's and Lisa's points are spot on as far as I'm concerned. The best BORs are conducted by knowledgable adults familiar with the program that are at ease conversing with youth. The best ones are where the scout leaves with some piece of wisdom offered one of the adults and a light bulb goes on in the scout. When this happens it's a special moment. The board should also get some insight into the scout and his needs and involvement in the program. Occaisionally the board is provided some wisdom from one of the scouts and an the light pops on in one of the adults.

 

As a youth and with my sons I've been involved with many youth organizations, sports activities etc. None that I have been involved with have anything like a BOR experience.

 

SA