Dozy

I was resopnding to evmori. My more heated contentions were sent through private email. I have not had a problem with anyone elses advice. I felt like I was being attacked and frankly, so did two other persons who read enmori's response. I know this person does not speak for anyone by him/herself. Because there is a difference of interpretation of policy here on this subject (and some others), it's time to stop bickering and find out WHAT REALLY is correct. I will do so as I go UP THE LINE until I receive "Clarification of Policy". What we think does not matter, what matters is

All good to know, thanks... Since there's such a huge difference in timeline, looks like I'll have to do some of my own digging. Knowing the exact timeline will help alleviate some of the "waiting game" jitters!(This message has been edited by Dozy)

Agreed (and I've been told here to get out of the book and use common sense! To me, common sense shows, "hey, there's a book that we're supposed to follow... let's follow it!") AND MAY I ADD, that National isn't very happy with what's going on in our Troop or our District. Even though we have no Unit Commissioner and No District Commissioner.... Even though WE HAVE a Disctrict Advancement Chairman and Committee to whom we made an appeal... well, let's just say that the DAC may or may not be aware of their power. National feels absolutely that the situation that happened in our BOR

Acco, I too agree that we must submit to the MB counselor. If the MBC signs off, then it's signed and done. Somehow the MBC was approved... but not necessarily the greatest according to perhaps OUR expectations. Some MBC's are too heard, some are too easy, and only Goldilocks finds the one who is "just right". If the TC or the SM is not happy with the MBC, anyone can drop that person from the list, or submit a complaint about that person. If an MBC adds to the requirements, that's another issue altogether. If he is subtracting from the requirements, same issue. It's a to

It works two ways when adults do not hold respect for the scout. However, you are right, in a perfect world with perfect scouts, we'd have perfect BOR's and they'd present themselves perfectly. Do we hold it against them if they don't say, "Sir, yes sir!" We have a Troop, 1 of which is autistic, and 3 of which are ScoutReach and have poor interpersonal skills, 3 of which have severe ADHD and are on medication, and most of these kids have very poor skills with adults... in other words, adults terrify them. In our situation, the adults have not made an effort to respect the

Maybe, Dozy, it's time to get out of the books & into the Troop. Work with the Scouts. Teach them & learn from them. Common sense is a must! " Then you disagree with the BSA? Or do you know better than the BSA? Come on, do you have another avenue besides: let's attack Dozy because she quotes from BSA guidelines! Sorry, that doesn't cut it! Is that the only way people justify themselves... they know better? and Shoot the messenger? Why bother with training? Why bother with books? Lets do a Chinese menu. We'll make up our own rules, but when we disagree, we'll se

- When was the last time the District Commissioner, ADC, and (most importantly of all) Unit Commissioner visited the Troop? It feels like there are "gut-check" level issues with delivery of the Scouting program here. - When was the last time the District Executive paid his annual call on the IH and COR? They have responsibilities to the youth of the program by seeking out volunteers for the program and ensuring they are trained! .... we have no current District Commissioner, the post is vacant. We have a former DC on our committee, and he's part of the problem--likes to throw is w

Anyone know how long it usually takes to receive Eagle approval from National? Anyone know exactly how fine the teeth in the comb are when going over the Eagle candidates records? I'm always concerned about errors coming back to haunt the scout.

Well, in this I guess we'll agree to disagree. BSA "Advancement Committee Guide" Policies and Procedures, page 25: Troop Advancement Goals. The Scoutmaster must be in charge of advancement in the troop.... It is important that the TC and the SM set an advancement goal for the year. By doing so, Scouts become net contributors to the troop and are able to care for themselves and others. I guess this is left up to interpretation. I cannot find anywhere in the book where the MB choices and timeline is left up to the scout. I'll be inclined to submit if I had it in print. SM guided

Good point FScouter... but the Scoutmaster is responsible for advancement. It would be irresponsible of him to let the boy go off on his own and make the wrong choices. The SM can give him the choice of which ER badge he wants to work on and at the same time, give him a choice of which standard badge he wants to work on. Not all scouts are able to discern a timeline for their advancement... that's up to the SM to keep on target with. Somewhere down the road, you want that boys Scout Spirit to soar and to have his eyes on the prize... or for the rest of his life he'll be saying that I d

The only values that matter are Scouting values. Agreed and that's what we keep trying to get back to. It's worked for 96 years and still, people come along and think they know better -- or let things slide here and there. Heck, every now and again, things will slide, but still, it doesn't do justice for the boys to circumvent protocol. Scouts aren't stupid and will learn either one of two things... that shortcuts are always OK, or that they were shortchanged and won't shortcut when it comes to their lives or their own children. Either way, we'll have an impact... however, we'd should want

Just remember for the future that to do our job of buildin' character, the other ranks have to mean somethin', too. Each should be a significant "step up" on the road to Eagle. If yeh make that a part of your troop culture, the kids will help you if you show you're serious. They want ranks to mean somethin', same as you do. Amen to that! Dependin' on what the offense was, maybe he should not be allowed on campouts for a couple of months? Can't help the Scout if he isn't around. Dad wants him in, the Scout wants out. If the Scout is out, he gets what he wants. If the Scout is in, he ge

I am not to blame for this. I have not done anything to fuel this fire. I and othershave done everythingwecan to protect the boy(s) and support the SM and run a quality program, despite the heirchy. When someone tries to help, do we automatically call that person someone "who hurts"?.... or do we preferto make an issue out of people who "makes waves" or brings problems to light? Wow, we didn't have problems until SHE came along! No! They were swept under the rug! They were never dealth with! A problem exists until it is solved, no matter how many times it's swept away, the dirt keeps coming

In disagreements over values and mission, it's the SM's job to follow the lead of the committee and CO, or resign if he can't. When the SM interviewed for the job, he clearly and upfront stated his values and mission. The CM agreed, the CO signed the paperwork. However, the CM, which micromanaged the previous SM, wasn't counting on the fact that they couldn't micromanage the new guy to their way of thinking. The previous one wanted out so bad, he gave his resignation nearly 3 years prior, but stayed in "for the boys." He had heart. And the new SM refused to go back to a non-boy led troop

A scout can make a request, of course, for a particular counselor. But the SM can say "no." Agreed and understandable. AND YES, also agreed that the scout FIRST makes a request of the SM to work on an MB. The boy does not take the initiative to do anything else first, except for maybe check out the requirements of a particular MB to see if he wants to pursue it, and then approaches the SM. Our SM will give a valid reason for a "no" on an MB usually only if not enough Eagle Required have been done or started for their next Rank Advancement. Once the scout can prove that an ER MB has be

I knew that the Eagle award was retroactive to the date of the BOR, and I always assumed that it wasn't official until approved by National... therefore, I assumed it was premature for this boy to show up at Summer Camp (his last ever) wearing an Eagle patch. No issue was made out of it. It was just a quiet concern of protocol by the Troop leaders.

What does surprise me is that without waiting the few weeks for the Eagle confirmation letter his parents were able to acquire an Eagle rank badge. I've been able to purchase second Rank patches when I tell them it's for my son's second shirt. He has one for Patrol Leader and one for Den Chief. My Scout shop accepted this and easily. I don't know if they have tighter reins on Eagle patches. As for eBay, I've been there and that's where I purchase used Scout Shirts for our ScoutReach boys and other families who want to save money. Many of them come fully loaded with patches. I tive the ex

"I would expect an explanation and would hope that we might be able to discuss it in great detail at the next committee meeting. Maybe I'd try and sneak in the training that I listed above". The CM refused. Sneaking in training was tried and didn't work. Hope, there's a lot of hope, always hope... after a year of situations like these, there's isn't so much hope anymore. Quality control is good, of course, when it's properly done, but not when there are two different agendas and a boy gets caught in the middle. Incidentally, my son advanced to Star... so in case anyone is wondering i

I'm a very firm believer in holding people accountable for doing what they are supposed to be doing and have done. But how do you do these things gently, by suggestion, when you suggest and prompt, and the immovable wall won't budge? and in a time frame that doesn't involve wasted months? Our District set-up a special Life to Eagle training class "just for us". Emailed and snail mailed invitations and encouraged out Committee members to attend. Guess who attended. Me and the SM, and about 50 other people from other troops. In a Council's guidelines, I read that, "if an error is to be

"Dozy, I think you're gettin' a little too involved with your own son's advancement, eh? This really isn't a question you should be involved with at all. This is a question that your son should ask his Camping MB counselor. The campin' MBC's job is to interpret the requirements so as to best develop your son's character, fitness, and citizenship. Don't take this important adult interaction away from your boy. " I did not address any of the above in my post. What do you mean by "really isn't a question you should be involved with at all. " We had this similar issue in our Troop where the

Actually LisaBob, I have never done anything at a committee meeting except sit there and stew. Things are discussed but never acted upon. We've been waiting for Program Launch where we are to discuss by-laws. The only motion I made that was carried is that Committee Meetings, normally held during Troop Meetings, be moved to another night because it became impossible for the SM every time he was needed to answer one of their questions. The straw that broke the camels back was this Star rank advancement situation. 1) SM had to be at a Committee called ScoutReach meeting during a

Now, I don't know if this makes matters better or worse, or what I can do, or should do or not do, but I have just become a voting member of our District as an Family FOS Chair. My first meeting is a Program Launch in a few weeks, and of course, I'm in training for my new 'volunteer' position. The last thing I want is to find it difficult to ask for money and FOS volunteers from people to support scouting. I like the people at my disctrct, I've met many over the last few months. I find them dedicated, etc., and very enthusiastic. I'm willing to overlook occasional favortism by per

"Forgive my impestuousness, but I see both the old guard and the new guard in a power struggle and both completely disregarding the concept of a boy-run troop. " The "old guard" isn't interested in a boy run troop. Last August, at my first committee meeing, the new SM talked about his plans. The CC actually said, "You aren't serious about having the boys run things!" Which leads me to believe that under the previous SM for the previous 9 years, they had an adult run troop and this CC was a Troop Committee member during that entire time. "There are many families with multiple Eagle scouts

MaScout, I totally agree. We have a weak, almost non-existent COR. How do you get Troop Committee people to actively participate in a program they seem to be wanting to sabotage? We're trying to be there "for the boys" and I'm relied upon in emergencies and that's all too frequent since there are only two adults willing to provide that second 2-deep. None of the others are willing to share that burden, not even on a rotation basis. They only go one events that interests them to go on. Recently, one lady said "never again" and that was just supervising four Scouts on a field

LisaBob, You said, "The AC job is generally held by a committee member and not an ASM." Generally, yes, but is it a rule somewhere the the ASM absolutely postively cannot be an AC? ... after all, to start a troop only a minimum of 3 CM's are needed. Our Troop did not have an ASM when my husband took over as SM. One of the Adult Leaders who was AC at the time decided to help and become an ASM. Our CM had a difficult time with 2-deep leadership. We didn't know it at the time, but many activities were cancelled as a rule because 2-deep wasn't always secured. Since my hu