dan

How in the world can you say mom and dad helped too much? If the parents help the scout learn requirements great. The blame should be placed on the scoutmaster/troop/BOR either the scout has learned/done the requirements or he hasnt, does it really matter who helped him learn the requirements? Mom/dad or the troop, as long as he has done/learned the requirements.

They are 3 checkpoints that should stop this from happening, The 1st sign off of the requirement, the Scoutmaster conference, and than the BOR.

How can you say that mom and dad helped too much, with the above 3 checkpoints?

I sound like you are trying to place the blame on mon/dad for a bad program! (IMHO)

What I find most amusing about this is that BSA was started on a lawsuit on who could use the BSA name.

Sue the Troop! Sue the Council! Sue the leaders! Create havoc. Make it hard for the troop to survive! Come on.

YEAH COME ON! WHO WOULD THIS MAKE HARD FOR THE TROOP TO SURVIVE? HOW WOULD THIS CREATE HAVOC.

This whole thing could have been avoided by just having a line saying if a scout leaves the troop all money reverts to the troop. Of course this is hindsight at this point.

But it did not, so does the scout get his money or not?

IS IT SO WRONG TO SHOW THE SCOUT THE LEAGAL WAY TO RESLOVE THIS? I DO NOT THINK SO!

Does your troop use the monthly program guide and follow the monthly program?

Does your troop use the monthly program meeting plan sheet either from the Scoutmaster handbook or from the Scouting magazine? Does your troop make a written agenda for campouts?

If you do the above does the PLC decide the program and write up or does a leader write it up?

The reason I am asking is that I feel my sons troop is a little loose at planning.

I feel that if we help the scouts learn to plan meetings, campouts, and COH better and in writing it will only make for a better troop and stronger leaders.

The PLC makes all the decision for the programs, but I believe with a little better communication, we will be all on the same page. Leaders and Scouts.

This troop has 80 boys, this is the only way I can think of so all scouts and leaders are on the same page.

I am a big fan of using the program that is already laid out in the program guide, with a little tweaking, and following the monthly program, It seems it would be easier to follow this than plan an whole meeting when it has already been done. It took me 2 years in Cub Scouts b4 I started using the program guide, that made the den leaders easier and more rewarding for the scouts.

Thoughts and ideas please, I am getting ready to discuss this with the Scoutmaster.

My 2 cents worth, there is no RULES on page 12 or 13 of the handbook about wearing uniforms, only suggestion that it will make you a better scout.

From Page 152 of the Scoutmaster Handbook, 2000 edition.

A Boy Scout is not required to have a uniform in order to be a Boy Scout.

The next sentence is:

However, troop leaders should set a good example by wearing the uniform.

Mike, I do not think you can require a scout to wear a uniform, but I believe that you can use it to stop advancement of the scout for not showing leadership especially if he is an older scout and not setting a good example for the younger scouts.

But, please be careful this could be a very slippery slope!

I have brought this point up here b4 and have been told I was mistaken, please read the Scoutmaster Handbook, and give me your thoughts on what it says.

Here is the link

http://www.threefirescouncil.org/

This is a council's slim downed version of the BSA's 50 page policy on websites.

Here is a readers digest version of the 50 page policy for web sites from BSA.

Unit, District, and Council Webpage Standards & Guidelines

Districts can develop their own Internet website as long they observe the rules and regulations of the BSA.

Do have a unit webpage/site. It is a great way to advertise and keep in touch with the unit membership.

Dont advertise anything in the BSA name.

Dont try to create secure areas on your website. This would be password-protected areas with Personal or private information. Even if you believe you have secured the data for your website users, the information is still available to ISP personnel, anyone that has the password, or knows someone with the password.

Dont use the web as the primary or only means of communication in your unit. They should be supplemental to email, traditional mail, unit newsletters, and calling trees.

Do allow the youth to build the website. This allows them to learn web technology and to take the load off the adult Webmaster, who has the final control over content of the site.

Dont allow any youth to change the webpage. Only the adult Webmaster should have the password to make changes to the website.

Do have only one person, or only a very few, making changes to the website. This helps eliminate the whoops, I overwrote your changes problem, Make sure, however, that there is more than one person with the password to the site.

Do check with Council website committee before changing website, to insure the site always meets National Rules, and is up to date in everything, forms, policies etc...

Dont use free web hosting providers, like geocities and intripod in services, especially those services that put up banners ads of any type, or ads that may be against BSA policy and could be offensive. Also dont use personal web space from unit or others members; its better to have the website in a place that will not go away when someone leaves.

Do post only the first name or the first name and last initial or salutation and last initial of any youth or adult member on a unit site/page: Jack O or Mrs. BlM. Refer to adult and youth by first names only and title: Scoutmaster Howard or Patrol Leader Jimmy.

Dont post the full names, email addresses, postal addresses or phone numbers of ANY youth. Only post the names of adults with their permission.

Dont post your units or districts newsletter or calendar without cleaning it of full names.

Do put pictures, graphics, silly songs, troop histories, permission slips, and other fun stuff. Keep pictures

to 100 dpi or less resolution. Make sure all files to download are small.

Dont identify any youth members, either in-group shots or individual shots by last and first names.

Do use links on council site to gain information and to supply you with the needed forms from National.

Dont put up ANY copies of official BSA forms on your website; link to these forms through the council website. This is the only approved way to get these forms.

Dont put up ANY images that may have been copyrighted, BSA or others; this may include images,such as OA lodge flaps etc. This isnt any harder than emailing the council website committee, or the items/logos source in question.

Do put up council approved advertising, such as popcorn and other BSA sanctioned events. If there are any questions as to what are and are not BSA events, ask. Always use Unit

Dont advertise any other sales on any website that says BSA. In general, make a separate site with a different URL for a site that sells wreaths, candy, or other non-BSA items. Remember that you and your

chartering organization could be liable for any problems with an e-commerce server. Do not sell from or

link to vendors that compete with the BSAs National Supply Division.

Dont put up BSA National Supply or any links related to same. Use the council website links to

connect for this information.

Do link to non-BSA websites, but make sure to only link to sites that are Scouting appropriate. Each link should open in a separate window. Also, occasionally test that the links are valid and pointing to the correct sites.

Do register a unique memorable domain name for your site. Scouting is an organization and therefore rates an in.org domain name. To prevent unscrupulous or malicious people from putting up inappropriate content in your sites name, you should register the domain name as well.

Do post general contact information (email address) for Scoutmaster, Committee Chair, etc., for units; and District Key Three, etc. for districts. It can be handy to have mailboxes set up to get incoming mail;

i.e. i.scoutmaster@mytroop.orgl. etc. Also, make sure that someone reads that mailbox on a daily basis.

What do you do, when you setup a program which to obtain Firt Class in the First Year, with the troop guides training the scouts at the troop meetings and the campouts that will cover the requirments and some of the scouts (60%) are not there because of other commeiments. Do you set up the program so the requiements are taught 2 to 3 times per year? This does not seem doable, not enough troop guides or time.

i wish i was taught that there is no need to raise your voice to a Scout.

i wish that i was taught much much more about the boy run troop. They tried to show it but it did not come across as it should have.

And i hope i never have to watch the guide to safe scouting video one more time (seen the same one 4 times)

Okay deep cleansing breath.

Think happy thoughts.

Now, bang head against wall, repeatedly.

NO!

Becuase their is no one here that represents the BSA! Professional Paid Scouter, versus us "just" Scouters!

Most people here do not even know what the policies are, only what they want them to be!

This year

Rota-Kiwan Kalamazoo, MI

Last year Camp Phillips in Wisc.

Great Camp

The committe wanted to try something new this year

Patrol Leader/Assistant Patrol Leader or a Patrol Member selected will track attendance and fill in the date of the meeting or campout Scout has attendant.

Patrol Leader/Assistant Patrol Leader or selected Patrol Member will notify SPL when beads are to be upgraded.

The PL/APL or person selected to track attendance will hand out White beads to the Scouts during the meeting, This will happen during the uniform inspections done by the Patrol.

Meeting beads: To be on the right side of the belt totem

White Bead for each meeting attendant, after 8 meetings trade in the 8 white beads for a silver bead

Gold bead for 16 meetings, trade in 2 silver beads for on gold

Camping beads: To be on the left side of the totem

White bead for each outing attendant, after 8 outing trade in the white beads for a Blue, after 16 outings trade in 2 blue beads for a green.

This system will track attendance at meetings and campout, a requirement requested by the BSA, and also reward the scouts with recognition of meetings

eman

when you say

"We tend to expect them to do things with little or no info and then we don't understand why they failed. Woodbadge let's you look at the situation from the other side"

How did Woodbadge show you this? By example?

Yes, bob and mike are blokes, and nice blokes also!

IMHO rooster likes to debate!

Weekender

I just sat with a new patrol and a Troop Guide last night. They went through the joining requirements, only 2 of the boys where able to get a scoutmaster conference. Do not forget that one of the requirements must be done with a parent, reviewing the pamphlet in the front of the book. Not all may be able to get their scouter badge the 1st or 2nd night.

Your way sounds way much cooler!

Try to spend some time answering questions, the new scouts had a many good questions.

And review some of the troop policies, some that I thought where important, you cannot carry a knife until you get a Totin Chip, this was a 15 minute discussion of what it is and what they need to learn. Scouts cannot carry matches until they get a fire chit.

It is up to them to get the requirements done (but many will be done at meeting and campouts) and signed off of, unlike Cub Scouts.

And start them thinking about a Patrol Name, Patrol Leader, and A patrol Leader, and what they do.

Every name they came up with started with Flaming! Arrows, Pickles, etc.

Another scout myth shot down!?

Are you absolutely sure about this Bob?

I have heard this so many times, even at scoutmaster fundamentals!

I could not find any reference to this in the Scoutmaster Handbook.

Do NOT do it!

If you want to assign an ASM (the dads) to the new patrols, for the 1st year to get them started out, follow the New Patrol Method from the Scoutmaster Handbook. (The new patrol method was started in 1985)

Preferably I would not have a dad be the ASM for his sons patrol if it could be helped.

Make sure they (the new ASMs) at least read the scoutmaster handbook and understand the patrol method, preferably read the handbook and get training.

The ASM should be there to get the troop guides to help the new scouts.

sctmom

you wont be showing those pictures to girlfriends in another couple of years, will you? or just for blackmail?

Great story!

Your son is leading by example!

BSA now has a policy for scout web pages/sites.

I have not seen it yet.

But for a heads up, I have heard that it says a BSA website should not have ads on them, meaning the free web hosting sites are really not allowed!

Only put the 1st name of a scout or leader or the webpage, not last names.

I will share more when I learn more.

Our troop has a meeting every month, but the meeting after the campout is the SPL meeting.

I do not agree that a scout should have to attend 2 meeting before a campout to attend the campout, many scouts have many other things going on band, ballet, dance, music lessons, etc.

But our troop has an unused policy that the scout must be at the meeting before the campout to help with campout prep.

Calendar is here. http://www.t46.ontheweb.com/

a. Trainers are coming Monday night to our troop meeting place for committee training.

b. I have only seen the training been offered twice for this year so far.

d. Yes, 3 ASM from our troop.

e.Not this year, we had one ASM go last year.

f. time of the year, for me it would fall, my least busy time.

Our troop has just started something new for our troop. A Quartermaster has been elected for each patrol, and he will be responsible for the patrol chuck box and troop gear that the patrol uses, previously it was the troop Quartermaster/SPL who was responsible for all of the troop gear. The Troop Quartermaster is still overall responsible for the gear. We have not had a campout since this has been installed, This months campout was cancelled! Rain, Thunder, Lighting, A lot more rain, ice, snow, and 50-mile an hour wind gusts!

How come all of the tents are in good condition until a leader takes it for a weekend of training and that ONE is somehow damaged!? And than you have to hear the same story over and over and over! How expenses the tents are how the scouts are not taking care of them, we are still using some tents that are 15 years old!

I really believe the scouts do an excellent job, for the most parts with the gear, but some of our ASM, acts like the scout has committed a felony if it is not done exactly to his specifications!

Well, since I kind of started this topic! I guess I need to respond!

I cannot come up with anytime a SPL should be appointed. And yes I have been thinking about it!

In my short time as a ASM, I have seen the patrol method not followed by new leaders and old er I mean experienced leaders.

Training helps but it is not the whole answer, reading the Scoutmaster handbook for me helped along with this forum. I have learned at great amount from this forum, but it has also made me get out the scoutmaster handbook to see if what is being stated is the BSA way.

(Bob White and I disagree if the policies are clear or not, I say no.

Bob White and I have not come to agreement if a uniform is required for scouting or not. The Scoutmaster Handbook says that a uniform is not required to join the BSA, I took this to mean to join and to be a Scout, Bob took this to mean you can join but you must get a uniform sometime while being a Scout. How long is a while?)

Bottom line is that, not everyone is cut out to be a Leader.

I believe that leaders that are not doing a good job, should be "fired". Of course all steps should be taken to help this leader to change.

I speak of leaders that I see in the troop I am in and have meet during district campouts.