dan

OGE

I would suggest that the

This web site is currently under construction.

Be removed.

A website should be constantly updated, so it should all which be under construction. Almost a living breathing monster!

I would also have your webmaster (is it you?) check national policy. There is only one thing that I saw that did not go along with the policy and it was having the leaders full names on it.

National policy also says that if you have a pitcure of a scout on a website you need a signed okay from the Parent.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with the policy only telling you what I read in the policy.

After all of that, nice site, easy navagtion, and good info.

Ed

What do you use to cook a whole patrol in?

A Dutch oven would be a little small!

What kind of seasonings do you use?

Try sending a message directly to Scouter.com, click on the link toward the bottom of the pages that says contact us.

I looked at my profile I do not even see my email address? but I cannot get past the 1st page either.

DFOX

Will be there the week of July 7th, keep the place clean! and whip those counselors into shape for us!

Have you been there before?

Northern Trail District

(District 3)

Northern Trail District serves the communities of Addison, Bensenville, Bloomingdale, Carol Stream, Glendale Heights, Hanover Park (east), Itasca, Keeneyville, Medinah, Roselle, and Wood Dale.

Go here for more info http://www.threefirescouncil.org/

I do not if that lodge is still around.

I think they have specials songs for WB! Well at least one!

Elburn?

I live 8 miles from Elburn!

But my kids are in a different school district.

To bad we couldn't hook up for the BSA handshake!

You know you have caused some problems now, there are 2 leaders in the troop that are staffing Wood Badge, so I can bend some ears about information about the 20 questions!

But lets not get into how to get all training done the same!

And I agree with you about the secrecy thing, its like a secret club, oh wait there is no secret clubs in the BSA is there!

This is the 1st course of the new Wood Badge for this council.

If this is a course on Team Building, I guess I can compare it with the other 3 I have been through, and coast through the course.

BTW I do know that I will be in a patrol, and you can bet I will not be singing for any lost stuff...

Wanna bet on this?

OGE

You already have info! I am signed up for WB in July, have been signed up and paid up for 3 months, and I have heard nothing! See how good you have it!

After reading the above post, I have decided that it will be impossible to get everyone using the same book for the BSA!

If Scoutmaster fundamentals nor Wood Badge teaches the patrol method/boy run troop, I really do not see how we will ever be on the same page. I have taken Scoutmaster fundamentals, and I am scheduled for Wood Badge in July. I was really hoping it would really push the patrol method.

I have came to the conclusion that the only way to learn the patrol method is by reading and learning it the hard way.

How very dishearting!

I agree that the scout got off to easy!

There was no Safe Haven with this troop.

I do not think there is anything you can do to help this troop. If you went to the council they would say it has been taken care of.

I would suggest you read the book On my Honor. And get ready for a real eye opener. After reading this book I told my wife, if you where to read this book you would never let our son go on another camp out!

It sounds like the troop your son is in may be alot like the troop in this book.

We as leaders need to be aware of this and control it the best we can, in other words this is going to happen! and we can only try to contain it not stop it.

If possble I would urge you to vist other troops and see how they are.

Good Luck!

As Mike L. said the online documation would be referecne material only. Not to replace training.

ScoutParent

I guess I do not trust my local council to do a good job with anything! But I do like you idea where a survey could be sent to national to answer the questions.

thank for the non answer New Jersey just like a lawyer! Only kidding, I am glad there is a lawyer here, even though you did not help with this one!

I would call the parents and not the police! I would give the parents a chance to deal with it before I would put the scout through the legal system.

After all I am not postive it is not Thyme! At least that would be my out for not calling the police.

Guilty unitl proved innocent, wait that is not right, is it?

Sheila

Oh you trouble maker you!

I wish I could give you a real answer only my ideas, and with that and $1.39 you can but a cup of coffee!

Yes I believe that the PLC can make these decision, given the correct information, but the SM may have to come down on the leaders if they are not leading. IMHO if a scout has a Position of Responsibility he must be coached how to do it and if he is not doing the job after being "coached he needs to be removed from the POR if he does not step up to the plate! You can not have scouts in POR and not doing anything with it and using it for Advancement, but I am putting the responsibility of seeing it get done on the leaders but the responsibility of the POR on the scout.

I hope this help!

sctmom

Oh no you had to bring up menus!

The troop my son is in has a rule of no candy no pop no cookies, unless you make them at the campout.

They also have a rule of no hot dogs, hamburgers or BBQ chicken. But if you look in the scout handbook, hamburgers are listed as a good meal. The handbook talks about a well-balanced meal, so I really think this is in writing, the troop I am with took this to extremes! Many leaders ask if we are trying to make the scouts gourmet cooks!

Mike Long

Excellent Idea, on line training guides to be accessible to all! I like it. I would be willing to help also in my free time!

Yes I agree also, but the question was how do get everyone on the same page.

And suggestions for improvements. As I stated in the original post I firmly believe we are all here trying to learn and share.

Training is not answer! The reason I say this is most posters on this board have been trained, if memory serves me correct. And we have different ideas on the policies.

I firmly believe the training I received for Scoutmaster Fundamentals was not the same as ALL others on this board. We have had some discussion on here and what other scouters said they learned from training I did not get what they did form the training. I believe that even in the same council, the training would be different by who does the training. I have to believe that the training from council to council is completely different.

To fix this the BSA need to come out with a complete training program that would not allow different trainers to add or subtract from the training program. It would be a huge task to write up each step of training, what would be said and done, but I believe this would also help the understanding of the program, if done correctly.

I have not seen the training program, but I have to believe that it is left pretty wide open for interpretation, from what I have seen.

Or should I say at least the same book?

The last couple of days there has been some discussion on what is and is not policy/allowed/correct.

After much discussion "we" can not come to an agreement on what is correct.

(By "we" I mean fellow scouters on this board, who I firmly believe are here to learn and help others learn to make their units and other unit better)

So my question to you all is:

How could the BSA get all of the members at least using the same book with the same understanding?

Or should they?

I will even start with a suggestion that on the BSA site www.scouting.org have a email address to send questions.

Quixote

Since you have read the GTSS, do the right thing and do what the GTSS says to do contact your scout excetitive and ask him, what his take is on this.

youngblood

Oh yeah, it also does not meet with BSA poilcies!

The lastest one I found.

All persons responsible for youth safety must understand and appreciate Scouting's position of zero tolerance for child abuse or victimization in any form. Unit leaders should report any suspected abuse to the local council Scout executive.

Hazing and Initiations

All forms of hazing, initiations, ridicule, or inappropriate teasing are prohibited and should not be allowed.

Rooster

Says if you can point out where it says singing for lost items in hazing we will stop.

After reading the above you need to call your Scout executive, and report your unit and see if you read the policy correct or not!

Edd

For the most update info on GTSS go here

http://www.scouting.org/nav/about.html

All persons responsible for youth safety must understand and appreciate Scouting's position of zero tolerance for child abuse or victimization in any form. Unit leaders should report any suspected abuse to the local council Scout executive.

Hazing and Initiations

All forms of hazing, initiations, ridicule, or inappropriate teasing are prohibited and should not be allowed.

youngblood

hell is your word not mine

How many 1st year scouts are lost because they are terrified that they may have or have got up and sing a little song like I am a little teapot! And now they think they have done something wrong! lost something, big deal! we all have misplaced things.

This is an answer we will never know!

This is not constructive discipline.

Having the patrol get up and do a planed skit will help a shy scout get over fear of public speaking more effectively than public embarrassing!

For the scout that is very outgoing can sing very well, this would be no big deal, but for the scout that is bashful cannot carry a tune is bucket he may just disappear from the program!

A boy that could have really used the program was turned away by people who do not know the program.

But, why do I bother people will just say, Well not all boys are cutout to be scouts!

From the GTSS from the BSA website.

Constructive discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted.

Hazing prohibited. Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity.

All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit.

If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents.

Member Responsibilities

All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit.

If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents

For those of you who believe that making a scout sing for a lost item is Constructive discipline and not bullying. You need to call your DE and get their input.

Rooster comment

No. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on. However, your scenario doesn't give the SM credit for having a brain. Ozemu's statements reflect my position well. First, a "stolen" watch (i.e., taken from someone's tent) is not a lost item. The SM and/or the PLC should be smart enough to know the differenceor the boy should be smart of enough to make this information known. Second, even if the watch was not stolen, the SM and/or the PLC should be flexible. They could easily find an alternative for this boy. Also, let's give the parents some credit as well. That is to say, isn't it more likely that the parents and the SM would have a polite conservation about the incident and come to some sort of friendly agreement? Regardless, an intelligent and thoughtful SM is not going hold the kid's watch ransom.

You theory does not hold water, the scout did not know it was missing until the SM found it lying on the ground, where the person who took it out of the tent dropped it, the SM has only one recourse in you scenario, the scout lost it! There are to many ifs and shoulds in your story for it to every come out good!

I am an ASM and if my son where to come home and tell me that he had to sing in front of the troop because someone thought he lost something (thought, you noticed I said) (not that he would every do that) I would call the SM and ask him what in the blue blazes he was doing, it would not be a calm polite discussion unless he apologized to my son and said he was going to change this bad policy, if not I would hang up call the DE and than the COR. And than your buddy newjersy!

BUT

Now we need a definition of Punishment and Discipline. That all can agree to!

Is it singing! Is it a SPL telling a scout that he has to do a special task to do?

Main Entry: 3haze

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): hazed; hazing

Etymology: origin unknown

Date: 1840

1 a : to harass by exacting unnecessary or disagreeable work b : to harass by banter, ridicule, or criticism

2 : to haze by way of singing

There was also a pitcure of a chicken and a mori ell also, I could not quite figure out what that was about.

And that is why we courts, to decide who has the best lawyers!

If the leaders of this troop where to follow the Scout law, they would not have to be sued!

No written policy, give the scout the money!

Sounds like a group of good boys who would have a scout sing for a lost item!

ozemu

Next time you should have the scout sing for forgiveness!

For the happy faces type in : ) but no spaces, you can do wink, happy, and gay!

Okay for you cruel people that would have a scout show submission by having them sing, what would you do if the scout refused to sing, and demanded his 25 dollar watch back.

Now he goes home and tells his gauardians, no I did not lose my watch, the scoutmaster has it. Someone took it out of my tent, and said they found it, and the leaders wanted me to get down and sing for it!

Would you have a leg to stand on?

Here is a council policy in writing.

here is the link

www.threefirescouncil.org

This document is the Three Fires Councils standards & guidelines adapted from the BSAs

national guidelines. This document is effective 3/27/2002 and supersedes all pervious website

guidelines for the Council.

Districts can develop their own Internet website as long they observe the rules and regulations of

the BSA. The Council has a standing website committee consisting of volunteers and advised by

the Council Business Manager. This committee will review all district websites, and unit websites

through the district, for compliance with these standards. Where this document does not make a

specific statement or answer a question, refer to the national guidelines.