Curious

"As the program is set now, the troop and the council each receive 30%, as opposed to an original fundraiser which yields 100% for the troop."

I have to agree with everyone that it is indeed overpriced. But this is exactly why we participate in the popcorn program. It is difficult for the council to support us and our efforts if we do not do our part to support the council in its fundraising efforts.

We were given a round LNT Trainer patch that is suitable for wear on the right pocket. I would imagine there would be something similar for a Master Educator.

I would advise against showing them a copy of the charter agreement. They might realize that they own the unit, including its checkbook.

An open and frank conversation would probably be better. And if you really don't think that is viable, then an conversation amongst yourselves about whether you really want a new partner. You could also consider self-chartering, but I would think that would pretty much guarantee that you would be paying a facility fee.

I used the Nation Trails program in April 2010. Ordered and received the product without a hitch. No problems whatsoever.

I used a credit card to place the order. With a credit card, you have 60 days to dispute the charge should the company fail to deliver. If a company wants to sell me product, that is more than enough time to get it into my hands.

"There are still Dallas Cowboys fans?"

Now you know why high school football is so popular in Texas ....

It is a Navy command, or at least part of a command. The correct command is "READY, TWO" to drop a salute. As previously mentioned, the Army (and its spinoff the Air Force) use the command "ORDER, ARMS" instead.

How saying "TWO" became a BSA tradition is beyond me. Just guessing, but I presume someone, somewhere was trying to distance the BSA from the military and decided to drop the READY preparatory command. And they ended up with a hokey tradition of just saying the number two. Personally, I find the whole practice annoying.

"Methinks dhmo.org is pulling a few legs here to see who will believe them."

You might want to read the press releases on the dhmo.org site. That should clear up any questions you have regarding the Environmental Assessment Center.

"It isn't the children I'm worried about though--it's the parents..."

If you're OK talking with the scouts, then you need to kind of "forget" that the parents are even there. You do this by focusing on the boys. Sit on the floor and have the boys gather around you. Do not look at the parents. Make eye contact only with the boys and just ignore any parents in the room. Its easier if you can arrange for the parents to be sitting somewhere behind you. Better yet, have hubby take the parents into another room to discuss any upcoming pack or district activities.

Also have to agree with the others. Whether its 17 or 15 boys, its still way too many for one den. This needs to be at least 2, if not 3, dens. Ideal den size is 6 to 8 boys. Maybe hubby can work on recruiting a 2nd WDL in the other room?

"Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and" more commonly referred to as H2O.

"They might want to make it clear that they don't support executing homosexuals. Assuming they don't support executing homosexuals.

To the best of my knowledge, the BSA has never supported executing anyone. In fact, I do not believe they have a stance on the death penalty one way or the other. I could be wrong, of course. But personally, I would find it odd if the BSA had a policy stance on the issue. They do have a Crime Prevention Merit Badge; but it really doesn't address the death penalty issue.

All things considered, I'd have to repeat what others have said:

"Why would the BSA have anything to say about it?"

"So, no need to wait until January for the official requirements for the new loops/pins. You can find them (and all of the others) here, now -"

Make sure to note the email address at the bottom of the page. National is asking for feedback regarding the program. If you are not pleased with the new video game belt loop (or anything else for that matter), now's the chance to express your thoughts.

"The Scout will make Eagle someday but if he is looking for it right now he does not have my edorsement. Boy is 14 1/2 yrs old."

What does his age have to do with anything? Or are you saying he doesn't get your endorsement because of his age?

"Oh, yes - according to his mom, it's as much about "texture" as it is about flavor."

She used those words? If his mom said it that way, then I would believe her. There are more than a few medical conditions where the texture of the food affect eating or swallowing. Eating disorders can also be a sign of some forms of autism. Since she chose those words, I would have no doubt that there is some sort of underlying condition that the family has, for some reason, decided not to reveal. My guess is that the family will have no problem providing you with that Doctor's note, should you choose to persist.

"I don't want to risk my son with someone involved in drugs."

Unless your son lives in a bubble, do you not take this risk everyday? One of his teachers or ASMs could be a drug dealer, for all anybody knows. Maybe his best friend's older brother has a secret stash hidden somewhere. As parents we just don't know. You and every other parent are already taking this risk. That is why we educate our children about the dangers and attempt to instill in them the tools and knowledge to make good decisions.

"... would you greet him with open arms too?"

Who said anything about "open arms"? Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? No, it is not necessary to greet every applicant with open arms. Nor is it necessary to convene a tribunal, nor to break out the water boards, nor to circular file an application because of a 12 year old lapse in judgment.

You should treat this person the same way that you treat all applicants. And above all else, you follow YP protocol ... regardless of what is printed (or not printed) on some piece of paper!

"If it were up to me, I would request the arrest and court documents on the case ..."

Why? Just in case the first trial missed something? LMAO! You planning on taking depositions, as well?

This happened 12 years ago. 12 years! Does the fact that he kept his nose clean since then mean nothing?

"I also learned that this group of parents has gotten together and decided to start their own troop after the boys cross over in Feb."

"The CO is a church,of which the outgoing CM is an active member."

Just guessing here ... Is this same Church also going to be charting this new troop? As others have stated, the CO is the one that actually owns the cash and equipment. If the CO doesn't change ... well, this may be an uphill fight ...

I'm also going to guess that the outgoing CM, assuming he or his wife are not also the COR, is in really tight with the COR. You may want to pull a copy of the charter and find out who all of the players are before going too much further.

"I feel like I am opening a big can of worms here."

Sadly, you probably are correct. After doing some digging, your best recourse may be to go to the Church Pastor to plead your case. Let them know that they are gaining a new troop possibly at the expense of the existing pack. Ask the Pastor to intercede to do whats right for ALL of the boys.

Maybe begin the program by asking if any of the boys would like to volunteer to help administer the event? Assign them to assist in the running of the stations, or maybe serve as runners. Let them participate by "doing you a favor" and then make sure they are kept busy.

"Nnow its true that since the father had never been arested no background check would have shown that."

"One solution as far as campouts is to have any parents that want to go must have background check. that is a reasonable solution."

A reasonable solution? Since the first background check would have failed, more will be effective? What is reasonable about that?

Personally, I would suggest you rely on following YP protocol instead.

"law enforcement info is oublic knowledge anyway ... Like if the cops were called to your house but you were not arrested."

I would be very wary of convicting people on hearsay evidence. Just because the police are summoned does not mean a crime has been committed.

In fact, one officer was fired after she got tired of answering one man's nuisance complaints:

http://www.drudge.com/news/124648/texas-cop-fired-egging-house

I can't convert it to eps, but this one might be a high enough resolution to get the job done.

http://troop158.com/new/images/bsa100.jpg

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words ...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34282.pdf

See the second page for a great picture of how they should be worn together.

"This like every other attempt will fail the minute they find out that they have to suspend 40% or more of the units for failure to comply"

Its before my time but ... Is this what happened when they made YPT mandatory? 40% seems a bit high, but did they really lose a lot of units over that?

Around here, a unit cannot register for a district or council event/camp without the leaders providing copies of their YPT certificates. Seems to me they could extend this to any sort of training. What if we had to submit copies of our "This is Scouting" certificates to register for summer camp? Would units really start dropping if they aren't allowed to attend camp next summer?

"Parachute cord--of course! Now getting small quantities in colors, that is the next challenge...."

Don't know about parachute cord, but if just plain cord is acceptable then visit your local WalMart. They carry cord in the sewing section for about a buck.

For a better selection of colors, check out your local fabric store. My personal choice. They will sell cord in smaller quantities and have a much broader selection of colors. Note that the fabric store may sometimes call the stuff "rattail" cord.

"- a certain type of glue,"

They sell fabric glue which should work nicely. I use a hot glue gun, since that is what I already had. My guess is that plain ole Elmer's would also work.

I haven't tried it, but I've often wondered if rubber cement would work. The idea being to remove the cord after wearing the patch, such that the patch can be returned to a patch collection display.

>> Like I said, until people quit trying to trivialize DUI/DWI, this is going to be an ongoing problem.

I don't believe anyone in this thread has trivialized it. The impact on people's lives, no matter where they stand, is no trivial matter.

>> And no, a criminal doesn't deserve to be a leader. They've already made their decisions, be it wrong ones, and the BSA have established guidelines that must be followed.

Using your criteria, you would need to exclude from a BSA leadership role such individuals as Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Barrack Obama. All have admitted to abusing drugs or alcohol before becoming President. I think it is also interesting that your criteria excludes people like Martin Luther King, Jr, Bishop Desmund Tutu, Mahatma Gandhi, and Nelson Mandella. All have run afoul of the criminal justice system. And lets not forget John Scopes. He was, after all, charged, tried, and convicted of teaching evolution!

I'm curious, are you a Christian? Let us not forget that Jesus Himself was convicted in both a Jewish and Roman court. He too would fail to meet your criteria.

Extreme examples, I admit. But that is the problem with blanket judgments such as these. It excludes the individual. I submit that a method of selecting leaders based solely upon computer printouts will inevitably scrape the bottom of the barrel.

>> IF the SE allows membership to continue, THEN the CO and unit committee have a decision to make.

In other words, a decision about individuals by individuals.

>> I suppose that means that BSA might be willing to reinstate the drunk once he's paid the fine. Would you feel good about that? I wouldn't.

Would I trade one extreme for another? Absolutely not! Universal absolution is no more the answer than the humiliation or seppuku punishments suggested by some. I believe that each case should be weighed based upon its own merits.

Your example doesn't give enough information to make a decision one way or another. Neither does the situation described in the OP.

An example that does contain enough information, though, is found in this post:

>> A SM clearly had a drinking problem and occasionally would show up for troop meetings with a couple under his belt.

A Scoutmaster shows up inebriated on multiple occasions and the troop leadership does nothing?!?!?!? Talk about ignoring YP protocol! They wait until he is arrested before being spurred into action?

This individual should have been removed from a position of leadership long before he ran afoul of the justice system. Who knows, maybe if the committee had taken their youth protection training seriously, this man might have gotten help sooner.

My guess is the scoutmaster's criminal background check came back clean. Yet another example of why the background check is not the complete measure of a man. You must look at the individual as a whole!

>> I appreciate the fact that you distinguished 'sinners' from gays and atheists.

You read too much between the lines. As for the discussion of Ezekiel 18 vs Exodus 34, I shall sadly leave that to another thread. While an interesting topic, this post has become far too long.

>> That part about visiting iniquities seems to apply here.

Who gets to visit all of those iniquities? I think Jesus' response (John 8:7) seems to apply here, as well.

>> If he insists on staying in leadership w/ the unit, then you KNOW you are making the right choice by kicking him out.

Such logic is reminiscent of the witch trials in the days of yore. Shall we see if he floats?

>> A pound of flesh does nobody any good at this point - thats the court's job, so let them do it

.....

>> Dad can rejoin activities after he has paid his debt to society, just never as a leader again.

Once that "pound of flesh" has been extracted, that debt has been paid, an individual is still not welcome at the table? Can a man's debts, in the eyes of scouting, ever be repaid? In addition to gays and atheists, are we now excluding sinners?

>> If your a criminal you don't deserve to be a leader.

Those who have made mistakes in their lives have nothing to teach? A sinner can never recant? A convict cannot be reformed? If summary judgment has been passed, then why bother asking the questions on the adult application? Just do the background check and reject those that have any black marks.

>> encouraged the COR not to allow the leader to drive other scouts.

This one, I'm struggling to understand! It is OK to be drunk around the scouts, so long as he doesn't drive?!?!?! Isn't that what we're saying here? We don't trust this leader to be sober enough to drive, but he is sober enough for all else. Why isn't the BSA policy prohibiting alcoholic beverages sufficient?

>> the CO can only approve leaders that MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS of the BSA. I don't think they get "local option" on this one.

Again, why bother asking the questions on the adult application if the CO has no purview?