Crossramwedge

I will agree the only mistake my son (as Nldscout mentioned) may have made is that he did not accept "election" the first time he was elected and "Nldscout" may be right in that some of the boys remembered that and did not vote him in and may not ever vote him in because of it. I guess he could talk to some of the boys and explain to them why he turned the election down the first time. But as far as my son having to "Change" to be elected, I do not know what he would change. He is a living walking Scout Oath. No airs. He is humble, yet proud of what he accomplishes. No brag in him. (I guess I am doing enough bragging for him, BUT I do not make a habit of it and am doing so just to get some points across.) If he does not get into the OA he will just keep on doing what he is doing. Leading by example. Living the Scout Oath. Moving forward and not looking back.

I have sent him an e-mail and asked him since my son was never notified either way, if he would mind sharing that bit of info. I sent that first thing yesterday morning. Have not heard from him yet.

On the chance that there was a clerical error, I am going to ask the SM myself if he has any knowledge or record as to what the outcome of the last OA election was as it pertains to my son. I am the one asking because my son has never brought this subject up. He has no knowledge of this. Here is why I am asking;

I inquired of a very good OA freind of mine as to whether he knew how the boys found out whether they where elected to the OA. As far as he knows the boys are notified by our local lodge first(not the SM)by a letter informing them of their election and explaining to them what they had to do next. If they were not elected there is no notification. Our SM does not count or review the results while the OA is there but lets the OA lodge reps. take the ballots, count them and record them. If a boy is elected the SM is also notified by mail as to the scouts election. If none are elected, no mail is sent to the SM and if he does not receive any notification through the mail, he is to assume no one got elected and lets it go at that if he wants to. He can also personally inquire about the scout OA election.

I then explained to him why I was asking and he then elected to share an incident that happened to him. It occured at about the same time as The OA election in question. That is why he mentioned it to me. He said had a SM freind who he wanted to nominate for the adult OA. This was to be a surprise call out. He approached the mans unit leaders about it. They agreed he would make an outstanding addition to the adult OA. They filled out the proper paper work and where on board and they let my freind proceed to see that it got done. All the proper paper work was then presented to the local lodge and after the OA looked over the nomination request they agreed that he was adult OA material and would call him out. What was special about this was that his son was being called out the same night. As the call out date approached my OA freind talked to the lodge again to make sure everything was in order. He was assured there where no problems. The night of the call out they proceed to the location and my OA freind checks with the OA lodge representatives to make sure that everything was going as planned. Well I guess you know what happened next. The SM name was not on the list of scouts to be called out later on that evening.

BAM, steam started coming out of his ears. He immediately got on the phone and tried to contact the powers that be to try and straighten this mess out. They were at another OA function. They tried to essentially blow him off. They said that they did not know what he was talking about and its Saturday night so the office is not open for them to check and see if their was a mix up. Besides that, they where out of town. Well it seems that he had some leverage and he decided to use it. His freind and his freinds son got called out that night.

As it turns out during this time, there had been some turn over in the office help and it caused problems. Papers did not get filed and other papers where lost and never turned up. There where also other mistakes made in other situations during this time. Everything supposedly is back to normal now. But taking this into consideration, it may be possible that that is what happened here. A clerical error.

No, I have not asked the scout master about it. In fact he was my partner in CPR class last night. It did not even pop in my head to ask him. But I will.

As far as the qualifications for OA go, when elections come up we see who has made first class and then see if they have met the camping and other requirements that OA requires to be considered to be elected and if they have met the minimum critera we consider them elegible to be up for election. On a chosen night( usually in December) The SM presents the boys and explains the criteria to be met to be elected to the OA and and that all the boys up for election have met those criteria. (All the boys in our Troop who meet the minimum criteria are given the chance to be in the elections for the OA if they want ) The Lodge representatives then speak and explain the OA, the history of it and what an honor it is to be bestowed on a boy by fellow scouts and how the election is going to take place. Then of course they have the election. Thats how it works in our Troop.

Forget it. Never mind. No matter how hard I try I cannot get my point across. I have explained it every which way I know how. I guess a have always been for the underdog. I just look at the scout oath and what it stands for and knowing how some of the boys in my troop act and then get elected to the OA and then look at other scouts in the troop that do not get voted in when in reality they are the ones that should be voted in first. I guess fairness, hardwork and honesty have nothing to do with it. Just forget it. I am sorry for wasting your time. Oh by the way SWScouter said the following "A popular scout is a scout that is sincere and caring to his fellow scouts" you just described my son. SWS thank you for that. Enough said. Thank you all for your opinions and advice.

Again,

Thanks for all your advice. But to be honest I believe that some OA elections are just popularity contest. In other words scouts get elected because they are "Cool" and not because of their Scouting work ethic. I think thats a shame. I know of scouts in our troop who probably will never be elected because they are "Different" yet they work hard and and are exemplorary scouts, they far out strip others in qualifications to be in the OA. Yet the "Others" get elected. My son is 14 does not have a cell phone, a computer, a TV, a stereo. He raises his arms in chrch and gives Glory to God with out embaressment while most kids just sit there with their hands in their pockets. I have even seen kids texting and playing games on their cell phones in church while my son he gives Glory to God. He is kind, honest, trustworthy. Tries to keep his heart and mind pure. In reality he doesn't need the OA. If he gets in fine if not maybe thats the best thing for him. He is not going to change,not going slap backs or glad hand to get in. I can see that my points are fruitless. But you know what "Change" can be good. Its a shame that countless kids who deserve the recognition are just forgotten because "Thats the way it is" and you need to get over it. Thats a cop out. Oh well I am done venting.Have to get ready for my Troops yearly CPR training.

My boy is not a WHINER. I am not just a parent, I am involved in the Troop as a leader myself. I am chairman for our upcomimg District "Fall Camporee". I observe and know what is going on and just can not figure this one out. My son has not said one word about not hearing wether he got voted in or not. He has not brought it up one time. As far as him not being elected in OA you are right, the boys may not be voting him in because they see things differently than a "Parent or leaders" does. BUT is it possible they need corrective lenses? What if a couple of the boys for some reason have something against another boy who is well qualified to be in OA. They dislike that boy because of of something that happened out side of scouting. Then knowing that this boy was up for OA election they go around before the election spreading lies and rumors about that boy to keep him from being elected. How is that for needing corrective lenses? I am not saying that happened to my son. But if it did and it was found out there ought to be some recourse to rectify the situation. It could happen and the innocent boy is the one being punished. There ought to be procedures in place other than "So be It". Thats all I am saying.

Again my boy has not even brought this up one time. If he knew I was inquireing other people about this situation he would be very upset with me. I am the one who is questioning as to why he is not being notified as to wether he was elected or not. He has and will live with the boys decision. I will never get involved beyond trying to see if he was voted in or not. You say all I have to do is ask the Scoutmaster to see if their is a mix up? Another election will be held in December. If he does not make it this time I guess he will try again.

Well that may be so, but again what does one do about a boy who who is more than well qualified for the OA and all the leadership in a troop knows it. ( Not necesarily my son) though he is more qualified to be in the OA than most of the boys in his Troop that are already in it. Its not right. I am CC and now what all the boys have done. What badges they have, what rank they are etc, etc. I Keep up with that. I will accept what the boys think but in this case they are wrong. I hope its a clerical error or something.

What if a boy is being ostracized because he is different, then there has to be some way to rectify the matter. If not then fairness and honesty which is the heart of Boy scouting is a farce.

I appreciate the replies I am getting. I understand the process. Now I may just be a father talking but to be quite honest I just can not see him not being elected. The last time the election for OA came about there where only two boys eligible and the other boy barely met the standards to be elected. He by the way has not been called out either. I did forget to mention in my earlier post that my son was called out once two years ago but because my wife and I did not understand what the OA was("Secret Society") etc. etc. we discouraged him from accepting. After some research and asking questions we now accept what the OA is and what they stand for and he would like to be given the chance to join OA. I understand that they are very service oriented.

He is all about service. When service projects come up and volunteers are needed his hand is one of the first to go up. If it doesn't its only bceause he is already committed some where else. This evening he is to take part in a flag ceremony at a local church and and this coming week he has volunteered to be on staff at the Disricts Cub scouts Day camp. Its a week long 8:00am-5:00pm daily camp. He is 14 and a "Life Scout" and scouting is what he does for his recreation and service. His older sister is on a "Ventureing Crew" and is leaving this Thursday for "Seabase" in Florida. Scouting has become a big part of our life in the last 5 years and we love it.

He is more qualified and has done more for scouting than many of the boys from our Troop who are in the OA now. Its to bad that many of the boys who deserve to be in the OA do not get the opportunity. Its not fair to those boys. The only other thing that I think may be happening here is that he is a very moral boy and does not take part in the usual "Bantor" that goes on between teen age boys. That is the way his Mom and I raised him. He has never heard a cuss word exit my lips and does not cuss(to my knowledge himself) Well I guess you guy's can tell I am proud of him. He does 99% this on his own. Oh on occasion I have had to prod him, but its a very rare occassion.

To me he eximplifies scouting. For instance he still needs to finish up his physical part for the Physical fitness badge. His badge counselor told him to just put down something physical he does (Mow the lawn, ride your bike etc.) 3 times a week for the next 12 weeks and he will count the 12 weeks being done. He will not do that and wants to do it the right way. Some of the other guys in the troop have gotten their badge doing it that way. He won't because he believes it to be cheating. I think he is what a scout is all about and I just want him recognized for it.

My son was voted on for election in to the OA last December, but has not heard or received any info as to wether he was elected. I am not a member of the OA but am CC of the troop and am involved in Cub scouts. I understand that is the Boys who elect their fellow scouts for the OA.

He is a Life Scout, has been on over 50 campouts/Camporees is in his third year as a den chief, is now a troop guide, has been a patrol leader, has countless service hours and volunteers for more all the time. He gets along with the other boys except one. I have been complimented on several occasions by the other leaders about him. He has been to NYLT. I just cannot see how the other boys in the Troop would not vote him in. The one boy he has problems with is in OA and my son has tried to understand why the other kid dislikes him. He has tried to talk to the boy about it but just gets shrugged off. Ive seen it. In fact his Dad and I have talked about it. Is there anyway one or two boys could keep him from being elected to the OA? There is another boy in the troop who is this other boys freind and is the District OA Lodge Secretary. But my son gets along with him.

So guy's what do you think. Is there any way I can see if he was elected. We did not go to the only camp out this year that had call outs because another Scout in his Troop was doing his Eagle project that week end and my son elected to stay in town and help him.

The CO rep is very involved troop member for several years himself. He is very aware of the situaton and we have chatted about it. Just do not want to lose any good men over this. SM as well as ASM. But as far as the ASM stepping up, in my opinion from what I see they (in their Position ) have stepped up and continue to step up. They just would like the SM to step up more. After all he is the SM. Delegation goes so far, but the one delegating also should get his hands a little dirty every now and then. They just would like a little more physical participation from the SM. As far as taking over SM, the ASM guys are covered up with OA, District functions, and volunteer for all sorts of Community service and still are their at every BSA meeting and try to make every camp out possible. If they can do that, they are wondering why the SM is not able to do so. To step up and become SM may mean their reinquishing what they do in other areas of community service thats just as important to them and the community. On the other hand becoming SM and giving everything else up to do so may be like a vacation to some of them.

The troop is Boy ran and the Scouts are advancing and enjoying themselves. The adults mainly advise. I do believe that the SM has job pressure as well as other types of pressure. As far as him moving on in a year or so , I heard it from 2 or 3 sources from in and out of the troop. Not him personally.

What gets the ASM goat is the fact that the SM does not show up for the campouts as well as other minor functions and the statement about he was not going to give up one of his weeks vacation to go to summer camp did not set well with them. Their position is that they are in the same boat vacation and pressure wise and still get the job done. As far as ego goes I do not believe that any of the ASM are aspiring to become SM probably because of some of the same type pressures that the SM has. The ASM are doing a great job and in reality we do not even miss the SM when he is not there. I do tell the ASM how appreciated they are because of all the hardwork they do. The SM is really a nice guy also. I must admit that I have better relations with the ASM because I am around them more at functions where the SM does not show up. These guys have all been in Scouting for years. I was involved in Cub Scouting (still am) but when my son moved up 3 years ago I started attending BSA functions and the next thing you know I am CC. Except for a couple of problems, things are going pretty good. I want to be open minded. I know that the SM has his side. I am just going to watch the situation and see how things develop. This problem seems to be minor compared to some of the other things I have read on ths Forum. Thanks for your advice.

I am CC of a troop and have a son in the troop. After having a talk with the ASM I find that they do not believe that the SM is performimg his job. These ASM are there for every campout if possible and contribute more money, ideas, time and resources individually than the SM. The ASM and SM all have boys in the troop. What really got them upset (among some other things) was when the SM was asked if he was going to be able to make it to summer camp and his reply basically was that he was not going to waste one of his weeks vacation to attend and besides it will be to hot. Earlier in the spring he had informed the troop that he was not going to be able to go on any summer camp outs until the fall. No real explaination. The SM is a good guy as are the ASM's. The SM son is the SPL and does a very good job. Even with this problem the Troop is stable. The ASM have not asked me to talk to the SM. I believe that the SM will be gone in another year on his own accord. So I think the best thing to do for now is to just keep an eye on things and if it starts to effect the Troop negatively then step in. SO guys what do you think?