Crossramwedge

Eagle Scouts have to use the donated services of various suppliers and professionals on many of their projects. Just a few of these donations would include supplies, architecturial drawings or chargeable time for advice. Lets say one of these people wanted a tax receipt for their services. The supplies are one thing but how about charges for plain advice? Are the donations made to a individual Scout for his Eagle project a legal tax write off? Just curious.

Just want to wish everybody a Happy Thanks Giveing. We have a lot to be Thankful for. Please keep our troops in your prayers. Also include Pres. Oboma and his administration. Wether you agree with him or not, he needs our prayers. He has a hard job and could use some spiritual guidence from above.

Words out of Landrieu's own mouth: "I am not going to be defensive," she declared. "And it's not a $100 million fix. It's a $300 million fix." In other words, the fix was in. This is 20 times the original amount of the Louisiana Purchase. Man what a joke. Landrieu's taking a $300,000,000.00 dollar bribe and there is nothing we can do about it. Its up to the people of La. to vote her out of office. Wether they will or not remains to be seen. Blanche Lincoln also got goodies. Have not seen what they are yet. If she continues down this path, she will be voted out of office. Her poll numbers where already way down in Arkansas and the majority of Arkansans are not for this bill. Bye-Bye Blanche.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Words out, Landrieu will vote in favor to bring it to the floor. Guess money talks. One other Senator who is holding out is Blanche Lincoln from Arkansas. The word is is if she votes to bring this to the floor or ends up voting to pass the "Health Bill" she will be voted out of office in 2010.

There is a provision in this bill starting on page 432 that increases Medicaid funding to "certian states recovering from a major disaster" To make a long story short, states that "during the preceeding 7 fiscal years" were declared a major disaster area would receive a portion of these funds if needed. Guess what state would beneifit the most: LA There are other states that may qualify for these funds but not to the degree the state of LA does because of Katrina. LA would receive the bulk of these funds. LA is the home of Sen. Mary Landrieu (Dem) who has been proving difficult to pin down and has been objecting to certian provisions in the over all health care bill. This bill will not pass without her vote. The cost of this: The Congressional Budget Office estimates it be $100 Mllion Dollars. Who would have guessed. I am sure this is just a coincidence. ;o}

Yes, a liberal can most certianly be involved in Scouting. No problem. But I am curious as to why a person is labeled a conservative just because they joke around about Obama, M. J. or women. I do not think that you can hang a liberal or conservative label on a person just because they crack these type of jokes. It does not have anything to do with them being a liberal or conservative. It has to do with them being a bigot,racist or sexist. Conservatism has nothing to do with ones race, color or creed. Neither does Liberalism. There are differences in Conservatism and Liberalism. They have to do with percieved differences in moral values, military might, issues of government and how much that Gov. should be involved in your life. There is a difference in how a Conservative and a Liberal would handle health care. So on so forth. Then there is the pro Life/Pro Choice debate. Then what does having a lot of weapons have to do with being a Conservative. Yes, conservatives believe that they have the right to bear arms, to own guns. But I bet if you took a poll most liberals feel the same. They just do not believe that you need to own a fully automatic AK-47. Well they really do not see a need for you to own a semi automatic AK-47 either. They both want the best for the country. They just have different points of view and will defend those points very forcefully if need be. To be honest, I am conservative. The leaders in my troop are conservative. We have boys in our troop whose parents are liberals. They choose to drop their boys off. They are quite welcome to become a adult leader, we have invited them but none have chosen to do so. AND NO its not because we make them uncomfortable. We are the only troop in our District who has African American young men in the troop. To be quite honest I know far more men who vote Democratic who make racial slurs and sexist jokesthan I do Republican friends Who make those type of jokes.(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)

The scouts always have the right to choose what they want to do for a service project. They have that freedom. They did take a poll and the meal was chosen. They even planned what they where going to serve. If the committee/leaders have a logistic problem or the ideal is something we cannot handle then they are informed and asked to reconsider and pick another project. On the face of it, that seems to be what happened here. But the SM was the only one in on the decesion making on this one. The committee did not even hear about any of this until it had all Occured. I guess he has that right. Again I want to state there would be no problem in serving a meal. I have been doing it for years. The SM relizes that. There is no way that he could even think that we could not handle a meal like that. I think I will suggest to the boys that they do both and see what happens.

Every Christmas the boys get together and perform a community service. Something fitting for the time of year. We have done shoe boxes, Caroling at nursing homes, fed a Habitat for Humanity crew a hot meal etc. This year they where discussing what they where going to do. Several suggestions where offered, both by adults and boys. The boys then went into their meeting room and discussed the options. It came down to Caroling at a nursing home or feeding a meal to the homeless. After every thing was discussed the meal was the way they wanted to go. They even planned it. Then the SM walked into the room and asked them what they decided on. When he was told the meal, he proceeded to tell the boys that it was to hard, that the homeless would not show and that we would have to throw away the food. Well, I beg your pardon. He knows that I have been in catering off and on for over 20 years and that I have the means to order the food, the equipment to do it with and the know how to get it accomplished, even with a bunch of young scouts. In fact he himself has been the head Cook and food procurer for every OA event held in our Council for going on 8 years. . The meal would take work and planning but he or I could help the boys pull it off. If we did it together it would be a cinch. There are a couple of us who know people who service the homeless and we would have no problem with hooking up with one of them and serving a meal. The SM then proceeded to espouse the virtues of Caroling at the Nursing Home. He talked them in to taking another vote. We have a bunch of new scouts who happened to have outnumbered the Senior Scouts last night. Can you guess how the second vote went? The meal idea came from our Advancement cordinator. But he did not go into the room or talk about his suggestion to the boys like the SM did. The caroling suggestion came from a new ASM who is heavily into recruitment. He had talked to the SM and ran the ideal of the Caroling by him before the meeting . The plan is to invite Webelos to tag along and sing with the boys and turn it in to recruitment tool. We do not have a feeder pack. Apparently the SM liked the idea. Do not get me wrong, the SM is a very nice guy. He tries. But I feel he got this one wrong. The boys made their choice and we have the means to pull it off and the SM knows it. The SPL and ASPL are not happy. They feel that they where over ruled and had their feet taken out from under them. There is a time for recruitment, but it needs to be a planned event for the purpose of recruiting. So do they approach him with their objections? Is the choice really the boys? After all we are supposed to be a Boy led troop.?

BrentAllen, He summed up those thoughts with out reading your post. That was straight out of his mouth and from his heart. I asked that one question and that was the reply he gave off the cuff.

BrentAllen, Yesterday as I was reading these post I turned to my son and asked him what he thought of a scout who does the very minimum to achieve his Eagle rank. He was sitting in front of the computer going over his Eagle Project write up which he should turn in today. Basically to make a long story short he said that if the scout had given it his best and his best was meeting the minimum requirements then he should get his Eagle rank. But again if a scout who on purpose just does enough to get by then he would have a problem with that. He said it really comes down to Scout Spirit. A scout like that (to him) is not living up to the Scout Oath and Law. He believes a scout should try to give his all all the time and any scout that does not do so (when he could) is not living up to the Scout Oath and law and therefore is not qualified to recieve his Eagle rank. A 16 year olds Life Scouts opinion.

Well, the Asst. SPL was recently told by this young man that he has no use for scouting and wants nothing to do with scouts in any way shape or form. He has been told that he needs 2 positions of responsibilty and has not approached the SM or SPL as to how that would be accomplished. We had our fall camporee this past weekend and he was there from 5 PM to 9 PM Friday night . Had to go home to get a good nights sleep for a sporting event he was involved in Sat. Said he needed as good nights sleep. He showed back up at 6 AM sunday morning and ate breakfast, helped tear down but then went home.

I agree with you Lisa that he not be handed a pass through position. The SM, SPL, CC and Advancement person are going to get together and come up with a plan to see if we can get this situation handled. The current SPL really does not want him on his team. It may come down to haveing to wait until we have elections for the next SPL and then work this young man in to a position that the New SPL would be comfortable with haveing him in. I hope things work out and the Scout in question straightens up. As I said before if he will get his act together we will do our best to see that he EARNS his "Eagle". If he does not, then we are no longer going to waste time that could be better used on the boys that truly love scouting. Its up to him.

I have not looked at his book to see who signed off on that requirement. We as leadership goofed up there. He got the rank and it cannot be rescinded. Have talked to the District Eagle Advancement Director and he said that because we goofed up he would allow this young man to make up the POR for Star and he would count it. He still would need a POR for Life. We have a young patrol and the ASM suggested that he take on being the Troop Guide for that Patrol. The SPL said no way. So that leaves Troop Historian, Librarian, Instructor or Buglar. JASM is out of the question.

My son was approached by a community orginization and asked if he would be interested in landscaping an area for a community medical clinic that provided free services to people who needed medical care. The building is not built but construction is to begin very soon. All of the landscapeing supplies have been previously donated. He would be planting several small trees, designing and planting a couple of fairly good size plant groupings and may be laying down sod. My question is since all of the supplies have already been donated I am wondering what the District Advancement person would think of that since he does not have to work and gather up donated supplies? Then how would he list them on the project supply list?

"The rank of Eagle is not only the written requirements, but ones of character as well." Thats what I am talking about. Anyway we have just determined that his POR is not valid. He was using being a Asst. Patrol leader as his POR. (The Patrol leader gets to pick his Asst. Patrol leader) This position is not a POR to be counted for Life or Star for that matter. He still has time to straighten up, but I would be surprised if he did so. As I said the ball is in his court.

Question: Does the IH of the CO have to fill out an adult leader application?

To update. Young man was given a SM conference. He was told in no certian terms that he was no longer going to slide from one rank to the next. A lot of badges where earned before this SM took charge. Anybody can go through the mechanical aspects of what it takes to be a scout. This is what he was told: (1)Not to late to shape up and "try" to earn Eagle (2)Or he could waste the next 18 months by continueing on with the same attitude he has now, age out and not earn Eagle (3)Or he needs to evaluate wether scouting is his thing and if not, move on. The ball is in his court. If he wishes to truly shape up then we will help him, if not we are not going to "kick" him out, but neither are we going to waste any more time on him so to speak.

Thank you for your advice. I am in the unusual position of being both CC and COR. I never would want to abuse my positions. I am very involved with the Troop. Attend all the meetings and go on several camp outs. I have seen first hand this kid in action. He will not help on camping trips, he wonders off by himself and usely finds a way to get his Dad to take him home early. As I said we have spoken to him and his Dad about this behavior on several occasions, Thank you for your advice. I think the young man will have a rude awakening at his next BOR. He is only 15 and has time to straighten up.

We have a young man in our troop who is there only because his father has promised him a new car if he gets Eagle. He has no interest in the goings on in the Troop. He is disruptive and will not perform his assigned duties on camp outs. Yet he some how earns his merit badges????. He walks around with a shirt, jacket or pull over over his Scout shirt. He only owns a scout shirt, no pants. Never in 4 years have we ever seen him in a Full uniform. His Dad is pushing for a BOR for his Life rank. I personally do not know how he even got this far. I (CC) as well other committee members and scout leaders do not believe he is Eagle material, let alone even being a Scout to begin with. The SM has been approached and knows our feelings. We have asked him to consider turning him down for advancement at the boys next SM conference. The SPL is in agreement also. (One of small problems I have is that the SPL is my son.) Maybe it will shake the kid up enough to straighten up. If the boy's father request a conference with the Committee we will gladly oblige and voice our concerns. He has been talked to on several occasions about his son's attitude already. So any advice here?

(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)

If all the people who want to be CC are qualified ( Boy I know I am going to get flamed for this) then approach them and tell them you do not want any hurt feelings over this so you are going to put their names in a hat and the person drawn is CC. Simple, yes. Unorthadox yes. Seriously, I would still approach the COR and inform her what is going on and ask her how she would handle it. She still needs to be informed. A lot of Troops operate by the book. They Involve the COR and IH form a search commitee who makes a recomendation so on and so forth. Thats the way it is supposed to be done. Then again there are other Troops who when a CC resigns just talk it over and appoint a new CC and then inform the IH. COR of the changes and then ask them for their blessing. Yes, thats not how it supposed to be done, but for some Troops it works. We meet once a year with the IH. The CC/COR attend most of the Scout meetings and even go on camp outs. We have a relaxed relationship with our CO as a whole. We consider that a good thing.

Now, since it was the SM who approved this "recon mission" or "espionage extraordinaire" then maybe it should be kept as an adult thing at first. Invite him to make a little talk at your next committee meeting and see what he has to say, then pass it to the SPL/PLC." With all do respect, this is the main problem here. The SPL got left out of the loop from the get go. To do what you suggested is just another example of how this problem got started. Yes let the young man make a report to the leadership of the Troop, who I understand (on the Program side) is made up of the SM, SPL and PLC. They and only they should decide if any of this info be disseminated or used at all by the troop. I stated in my last post that this is not the first time this scout has skirted protocol and gone directly to the SM about a change or ideas that he came up with. The point is is that he needs to go to the SPL first. We as a troop have striven to let the SPL be the Main leader of the troop. These types of situations and how they are handled need to be under the direct control of the SPL and PLC with guidance of the SM. After all this is a matter that could effect the whole troop, whether good or bad. The SPL along with the PLC, IMHO, need to be the fulcrum point of all the decisions that effect the Program side of the Troop. If they makes a bad decision so be it. Only if the decision is so bad that it would diversely effect the troop as a whole should the decision be rescinded by the SM. Yet a bad decision should rarely happen. Why? Because the lines of communication between the SM and SPL should be open enough so that bad decisions should not take place. Of course over the passing of time and because of things that happen a good decision when it was made could turn into a bad one because circumstances and variuos schedules could change that effect the prior decision. The SPL considers this younger scout a good scout and a friend. Yes, he has had more than one conversation with this Scout informing him that he needs to come to the SPL with these ideas first. Then he with the SPL approach the SM. That is why he is frustrated about how this recent situation came down. He does truly believe that the scout has no ulterior motives in doing this. After all the SPL is the one who appointed this young man to be the Patrol leader for the New Scouts because of his leadership capabilities. The young man has just made 2ND class. The SPL is also a little upset that he is leaving this patrol and thinks that he would benifit the troop by not taking a month off and instead stay in place as the Patrol leader and not abandon his "kids" at this moment in time. Basically this SPL wants to be kept in the loop, be involved in the decision makeing and wants the 2ND class scout to honor his committment as the new scouts Patrol leader. He wants him to serve his term and then he would be free to go and visit the other troop and come back and make a report. Is that to much to be asked?

Well I percieve that there is a consensus here. Let the boy go. No Problem. Let him come back And report. No problem. Might learn something. I agree. The problem comes in because he and the SM left the SPL out of the decision makeing process. If the troop is a boy led troop then matters such as these I believe should be brought up to the SPL. He should not be left out of the loop. IMHO the SPL's authority was usurped in this action. This plan was announced at a troop meeting and the SPL had no prior knowledge of the fact. When the young man was approached by the SPL as to when was this plan hatched the SPL was told by this scout that he had discussed it with the SM and was given permission to do this and if the SPL objected that there was nothing that he could do about it since the SM gave him permission to do it. The SPL approached the SM and was told that at the prior event that the two troops were watching over, a scout leader from that troop was bragging about this and that. (He was from the troop who had no boys show up to help run the event. By the way the job of the Scouts was to promote and share Scouting with the Public.) The SM thought that it was a good idea to visit them and see if all of this bragging was fact. That being said, before permission was given by the SM for trhis, a call should have been made to the SPL so he would be knowledgeable of the facts before they sprang it, by announceing it to the whole troop at a regular meeting. Made the SPL look like an idiot. The young man in question also makes decisions on his own without consulting other leaders, let alone the SPL. He made a decision that we where not going to work on a special project at regular meetings because he thought that we did not have the time to do so and then with out consulting anyone sent out e-mails to the whole troop stateing like it was a decision made by the SM or SPL. He has no authority to make a decision like that. I could give other instances, but you get the drift. I must not understand how a boy led troop operates. Somebody please fill me in. I thought that the SPL with guidance from the SM was the leader of the troop. Am I missing something? Am I wrong in my thinking? It was my understanding that the SPL is in charge of the troop meetings from beginning to end. He is to see to it that the troop runs smoothly. To me that also means that he should be kept in the loop of all matters that would effect the troop. This definitely will effect the troop in one way or another. It already has and he has not even gone to a meeting held by the other troop.

Recently we had a scout attend a Function where an information booth on scouting was primarily to be manned by boys/adults from two troops. Our troop showed up with boys and Adults. The other troop showed up with adults only and no boys. They are 3 times bigger than us. One of the leaders from the other troop started talking to one of our boys and told him how many "Eagles" they have had, how smoothly everything runs and told him about all the camp outs and adventures this troop does. Now that boy wants to go visit that troop supposedly under the auspices of seeing how that troop is ran and to glean from them things that may help our troop grow. (Our Troop is already known as one of the most active troops in the area.) The only thing they may have over us is "High Adventure' trips. They happen to be more well funded than us and can do those type of adventures more frequently than us. They are a known "Eagle" factory and are definitely not boy led.The adults have far to much input into what the boys do. They have 38 boys and 80 adult leaders. This young man approached our SM and got his blessing to do this. The SPL was not approached and when he was told about it he did not like it, But feels since the SM said it was OK he can not do anything about it. He did ask the boy not to do it and the boy is going to go anyway. The young man in question also sent out an e-mail stateing that he would be gone for a month and that when he came back he would get together with the SM and SPL and then e-mail everybody what he learned at the other meeting. He is our troop scribe and tends to want to run things. He is strong headed. Here is the crux. The other main leaders in the troop the main ASM, the SPL and the CC, who happens to be me, do not feel that this is something our troop needs right now. If the young man wants to visit the other troop on his own then so be it. He can do that. If he then comes back and wants to share with us his experiences with the other troop, thats ok. But him going for the explicit purpose of "Spying" is not Scout like. Can somebody tell me the authority that a scribe has and how far he can go when he sends out information? How much power as CC/COR do I have in this type of situation?Do I have the authority to tell the young man that in no way do we as a troop condone him "Spying" and in no way, shape or form is he to go there for that purpose. How about the SPL? Can he over rule the SM and tell him he is going of his own accord and does not have the backing of the troop to do this? Any words of Wisdom? The SM is a good man, I just think that he did not think this out. If you found out a Scout was 'Spying" on your troop, what would you think? (This message has been edited by crossramwedge)(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)

These Scouts did not create the problem. The Council in charge LOST the merit Badge list that was hand delivered to the Council office, so it was not lost in the mail. The boys then had nothing really to choose from because all the classes that they wanted where filled up all ready. IMHO the boy's should not be punished for something the Council goofed up on. Period. Prof., Thank you, we are in the process of doing that. The only problem we have is that no one has Stepped up to take on any of the "Citizen" Merit badges, but we will work through that.