AdvanceOn

EXACTLY!!! Unfortunately (0r probably fortunately), the members of that board of review are no longer involved with the troop. The Scoutmaster is.

I told this Scout's father that he and his son (who is at college and not really able to do a lot of leg work at this point) that if we have any further problems they should file an appeal since it was a troop/committee issue AND a council issue. This should never have happened.

As an update, I THINK we have the problem resolved. At least we're working on it with council. I've got my fingers crossed.

FOr future, I've decided that after a Scout has a Life board of review I am going to make a formal request to Council for a printout of what they think the Scout has. I've got everything computerized with Troopmaster now so we should catch any problems like this before they happen but even since we've computerized Council records don't always jive with ours.

Thanks for all the input.

1. Why does Bob White catch by far the most criticism for his opinions and statements?

IMHO, because he touches a nerve. Many of us say and think we know scouting but Bob is a by the book kind of guy and challenges many of our beliefs and misconceptions. He has challenged some of MY beliefs and misconceptions. Does he offend me? Generally not!

2. Why is it in over two years of posting on this forum I have hardly, if ever seen any other poster directly asked for advice on a scouting matter?

Most of us post opinions (which can be very useful and insightful as well). Bob posts resources and plans of action. I really appreciate when he can direct us to a book, specific person (position), etc.

Thanks, Bob. He does have the correct requirements now. I've been keeping all the records for the past year using Troopmaster and we've been able to verify everything.

I really got the impression from out Scout Executive that they may not be able to approve this Eagle application based on the Life mess. I will talk with the father (the scout has left for college and not very accessible at the moment) and encourage him to be pretty assertive on this matter.

Thanks for the information. I really appreciate your knowledge of the rules and regulations.

Hi. This is probably directed to Bob White but others feel free to offer suggestions and/or resources.

We have a Scout who has completed his Eagle requirements and has sent in his rank application materials.They have found some problems with his application. Apparently this Scout "earned" Life rank without having enough Eagle-required merit badges. Now that council is checking for verification this has come up as a problem. He lacked two Eagle merit badges for a whole year (got Life in June, '00, didn't complete the other two Eagle badges until June, '02). According to this Scout and his father he was told he didn't need the Eagle badges for advancement. He had a Scoutmaster conference and a Board of Review. The paperwork was submitted to council and his badge was awarded. The Scoutmaster is still the SM but none of the committee is the same. The Life rank happened a year before I was involved with the troop so all the information is from the Scout and father only. Also, this Scout will be 18 next week (yeah, another last minute Eagle) so redoing or resubmitting isn't an option.

So, . . .

1. What, if anything can this Scout do to rectify the problem? Certainly a Scout is responsible for making sure he has met all the requirements but what responsibility does the SM and Committee have? Shouldn't Council be verifying these badges BEFORE a Scout submits his Eagle rank application? I know this Scout and father feel they were misled.

2. Is this problem so bad that he won't be awarded his Eagle rank? If so, what is the appeal process for this Scout?

3. Any suggestions of where we can turn for assistance/resources?

Thanks much.

I know that my suggestion may not be appropriate for everyone depending on time constraints but I have had found that being involved in district and council committees has been the biggest eye-opener and resource for me. I am meeting people outside of my troop and in the case of council committees, outside of my district. It's nice to hear new ideas and sometimes confirmation that what I'm doing IS RIGHT!

And you're right on about getting trained. I have tried to get trained as much as possible. Sometimes the trainings seemed mundane but the networking time with other leaders was invaluable.

Our council does not allow us to advance purchase any of the rank or merit badges. I wish they would since I can anticipate when a scout will be advancing or when they'll be finishing a merit badge. It isn't convenient for me or anyone else to get to the scout shop every time a scout earns a badge but I do my best.

My older son did not receive his rank advancement badge for 1st class for months! Now that I'm the advancement coordinator I will never let that happen in this troop. Generally the boys get their badge the very next troop meeting and then also get a formal recognition at our quarterly court of honor. The exception to this is this time of year. Because of summer camp I have 60+ merit badges and we're in the process of conducting boards of review for about 10 scouts. I can't make weekly trips to our scout shop so all the kids have been told that badges will be presented at our August court of honor (they still get the verbal recognition at a troop meeting).

The requirement also mentions community or troop program.

There are many organizations that do drug programs. They could visit the local police who often do more than just the DARE program. Many Community Action agencies have drug education programs. Local mental health agencies usually have a substance abuse program and would probably be available to provide information and educational materials.

For these and many other organizations it just takes a phone call to set up a visit or two.

The thing to remember is that it doesn't have to be an advertised drug education program. I personally would much rather see these scouts make a visit or two to one of the agencies than to just read the materials that you give them.

(This message has been edited by AdvanceOn)

Like Ed, we also count the Scouting for Food. It is generally the first service that our new scouts do after crossing over in March. This year, though, most of our scouts did their first service project by helping the VFW (our chartering organization) raise fund for the Veterans hospital programs by selling Buddy Poppies. They raised over $400 in 4 hours. It will probably become an annual service project for our troop.

My older son was approved for working in a soup kitchen as his initial service hours when he was a younger scout. Some of our scouts help with Meals on Wheels and at the clothing and food banks.

I don't know about your troop but service hours has NEVER been a problem for us. The bigger issue is that the kids get really tired of clearing brush (seems to be one of the more common service needs) and doing service every time they turn around.

The Eagle Workbook packet under the limitation section states " The project also may not be performed for a business or an individual,. . ."

It seems to me that for Hersh's idea to be approved he would need to work with a local organization that does this kind of work, i.e. weatherization program, community action agency, habitat for humanity, etc.,

Of course, that seems good to me. It would demonstrate leadership and use of his community resources.

The other question I have about your project idea -- mowing grass and trimming bushes is nice but how will you help this person maintain their home? If you can come up with a plan to keep this house/property looking nice that would be great.

But your poll limited my answer. I am trained at both the Boy Scout AND Cub Scout levels. I have sought out and received training for every position I have been registered for. Unfortunately, it often took awhile to get the trainning, not because I didn't sign up but because it wasn't offered or it was cancelled.

Yes, apparently it is a council decision on the profits. Our council, Greater Pittsburgh gives higher profits as incentives for attending a training, getting paperwork in on time, etc. Troops and Packs could get up to 41% profit last year. The profits were much higher than in the Buckskin Council we previously belonged to.

Why in the world would the Pack pay any money to start this troop? Ed's right, it's up to the new troop to get the money. Since your Pack didn't do individual funds then no money should be forwarded.

Our troop gets $0 from the Pack when new Webelos crossover. The boys start out with $0 in their scout accounts. They will have opportunities to participate in our fundraisers during the year.

I STRONGLY urge you to seek advice at the district and/or council level on this. It seems pretty unusual to me.

I follow the threads pretty closely and have tended to agree with concerns raised on the extremes of age when a Scout gets Eagle. I have certainly been biased toward thinking that the 17 1/2 - 18 year old Eagle is really being slid through. That was what I was seeing from our troop. The average age of our Eagle Scouts is well over 17.

BUT, I wanted to tell you about one of our scouts who has returned to the troop to work on his Eagle. He is 17 years old. He has all but one merit badge done and has all the leadership requirements completed. So basically all he has left is his Eagle leadership project. He came back to the troop, talked with the Scoutmaster about how he figured if he was going to do his Eagle project he'd better get involved with the troop so the boys have a clue who he is. He's not coming to every meeting (he's a lifeguard at the local pool so doesn't get off until our meeting start time) but when he's there he has been taking on the troop guide role. Last night he did CPR instruction with the boys to help meet a merit badge requirement and the 1st class requirement. He did a nice job.

Also, his Eagle project isn't our "typical" project. We expected a more labor intensive project (the Eagle doesn't have to plan much and the entire troop does labor for one or two weekends) but his project will require a much higher level of planning on his part. AND, he's talking to us about his project! So many of the other Eagles that I've had contact with didn't talk with the committe, leaders, or scouts about his project until he needed them to work or sign the paperwork.

I for one am pleased.

So last night we had one of our older Scouts (17 year old who recently came back to finish his Eagle) do CPR instruction with the troop. Well, of course, some of the kids said, "we've already done this." He did a good job of telling them, "good, then you can be the first to do it so the other kids know what to do."

I was pleased with that response -- it really changed the focus from being bored with doing something again to a challenge to demonstrate their skills (and no leader intervention was required!).

Sctmom made this statement in another thread --

"A lot of things for the first year in Boy Scouts are a repeat of Webelos skills, but as I told my son "Done it before? Great, you should have no problem showing your skill once again. And it gives you some extra practice"

I decided to pull it out of the other thread so as not to change that subject too much.

I like your style sctmom. I wish more of our parents had that attitude. That's exactly what I tell my sons and any parent or scout when they ask that question.

I get SO tired of parents (more than the boys, actually) trying to get the scout out of doing something because they've done it before. One thing that keeps coming up right now as we prepare for summer camp -- "He already passed the BSA swim test last summer, does he have to do it again?" Or, "he swims with us all the time, can I sign him off on that requirement?" Just a couple of examples in a growing list.

Life is generally a review. We have to prove ourselves over and over again in many settings -- work, home, church, . . .once is rarely enough.

Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks again, sctmom. Your take on scouting is what we need more of. I wish I had you in my district. I need some good unit commissioners!

Can't tell you how well this works because we haven't done it yet but . . . we're planning a Scout-O-Rama for our district in the fall. This will be a district-wide recruitment at all levels of scouting. Each unit will be able to set up an exhibit that demonstrates what they're doing in scouting. We'll have demonstrations of scout skills, pinewood derby, raingutter regatta, etc. Kids of all ages will be able to try their hand at some of the scout activities.

We don't have a mall so we'll have to do some additional work to get the people to come to us.

You could probably do a smaller version of this if you're only wanting to recruit for your troop.

One of the best recruiting our troop ever did was when we hosted a day event for the Webelos. They got a taste of boy scouts and were REALLY enthusiastic. As a matter of fact, a new troop was born partly because of our event. The boys from a pack a fair distance from us came to our event and got so excited that they convinced their parents to start a troop!

Hope this helps. Good luck with your recruiting.

BobWhite:

"Until you experience the lessons of Wood Badge you will not be able to begin. It is not something you want to have predetermined before your instruction."

This is what I was responding to. All I was saying was that for my course we did have to get started before the instruction.

You're right. Each course director has some leeway in how they run their course. I certainly wasn't trying to divulge anything to OGE, although I have been told that the secrecy of Wood Badge has been removed from the course.

We started working on our ticket BEFORE course. We were given the 20 questions to think about and also a form to start roughing out what we want to work on. These were reviewed during our 30-day meeting and returned to us that day with comments. During the first weekend we worked on our tickets much more formally and have to have them turned in for approval BEFORE the next weekend of the course.

As far as ideas for your ticket -- what is your primarily scouting position? We were told to write our ticket around our primary position. That was a little tough for me 'cuz I really would like to do some for both -- they wouldn't let me

1. If he was elected or appointed to a leadership position and held it for 6 months it counts whether he did anything or not (you'll find this discussed a lot throughout this forum).

2. The fact that he personally has only put in 10 hours doesn't inherently mean he didn't do enough on his project. It's a LEADERSHIP project -- how did the 100 hours get done, did he delegate, seek volunteers? That would be good.

Now, with that said. You don't have a chance of withholding Eagle on this kid BUT, now seems like the time to start working with the younger scouts on being GOOD leaders, developing and carrying out good projects, etc.

Our troop has a history of producing paper Eagles, IMHO. We have gotten through most of that with one or two kids still struggling between the old way and the new way.

I understand your dilemma completely. I have been struggling with this since my older son joined our troop 2 years ago. Slowly we are making improvements but it angers me when I see parents and leaders signing anything and everything for the boys so that they get their Eagle, earned or not.

Good luck with your situation.

Yes, that's who our DE used to set ours up.

Thanks for the information. Now I know what to look for in our council.

Okay, I know many of you will jump right in saying "yes" to that question but what I'm really trying to find out is if anyone knows national's stance on district websites. I was talking to a DE from another council about our district starting a website and he said, "your DE should know better than to set up a district website, only council is allowed to have one." Well, I think a district website is a great idea but I also prefer to follow the rules. So, anyone have a reference for this?

Thanks.

This website (scouter.com) and the US Scouting Service project -- http://usscouts.org/start.asp both have links to commissioner materials.

Good Luck

I was attending boy scout RT until recently. NOw I'm on the cub side. I'm having the exact opposite experience as you. WHile not always the most entertaining our Boy Scout Rts are generally pretty informative with good troop attendance and interaction. Our cub scout RTs are poorly attended and have been described as "gripe" sessions and not worth attending.

We're working to change this.

So, like OGE says -- not all roundtables are boring. I guess a lot depends on what you and other participants put into it (both expectations and energy-wise).

OGE, I love the cooking piece. OUr June meeting is always a picnic with both cub and boy scout leaders together -- we have a district person always cook for the entire group (he LOVES to cook). Maybe we could let him cook some and have the troops take on pieces as well (wouldn't want to hurt his feelings!).

Hey Ed:

Have you talked to the new camping director? He's apparently on board now as of last week -- Kevin somebody. I haven't met him but heard about him at National Camping School last weekend.

For the rest of you, if I'm understanding Ed's concern -- why should a building be left unused when cubs aren't using it? I'm sure there is a sense of "ownership" since they did so much of the work, partly with the expectation that it would be a great place for them. Sounds to me like making it a cub scout only building was an afterthought of the camping director. Camping space is still tight for all of us in this council. Restrictions like these are an unneeded frustration.