Chippewa29

Just to let you know, our former SM is not the CC. Basically, he is a committee member. Also, he practically begged me to take the job from him for over a year. For a year or so after I took over, he was rarely around (maybe one meeting a month and a couple of campouts that year) due to his job keeping him out of town. In regards to Rooster's inquiry, the design is our troop crest (a shield with a gold bar across the top with the fleur-de-lis and a square knot in the shield; it looks kind of like a family crest) with our hometown written below the crest. Our committee chair is a very nice lady that handles a lot of the administrative work (she has taken basic leader training), but is not a strong leader at all. She tries to avoid conflict (I don't think she has any agenda other than helping out the troop). Our ex-SM, since he now has time (he has been able to stay home with his job the past couple of months), seems to want to run things again. A little history on him. He came into the troop with his oldest son twelve years ago and wasn't very active his first couple of years. Then, after a civil war among the adults in the troop, he suddenly got involved and after stumbling around, went to training (before this, he didn't believe in wearing a uniform) and suddenly got religion. He became an ASM and a couple of years later, he wasn't happy with how the SM was doing things (not great, but not terrible either). When that SM left, he told me he felt like he was pushed out. A couple years later, this SM was burned out and basically forced the position on one of our other assistants. For the next 1 1/2-2 years, the ex-SM basically ran the troop even though his former assistant was SM. Then, he took back over again as SM when his job schedule gave him enough time. About a year later, he was overwhelmed again (he had a very hard time delegating anything and we spent about five years without getting any new adult help, basically because he liked to control everything). About that time, he started asking me to take over the troop (he was only there half the time because of his job). I took over a year later. I don't think he wants the SM job back, but he wants to still be the one making the decisions. I've already called in outside help (district training staff that knows all parties involved). Our COR won't be of much help, as he has very little Scouting background and his involvement in the troop in the past year has been attending one committee meeting. Earlier today, I was wondering why I was so mad at the email. It wasn't the fact that he disagreed with me (its only t-shirts), but this isn't the first time he has pronounced me wrong in front of the troop. I now realize that I am not happy about him not acknowledging me as being the leader of the troop and following the path I am trying to lay out for it with the Scouts.

There was no way I would let anything close to a questionable design get through. Fortunately, our Scouts are pretty good about staying away from that (at least around me). Like you said, even though I have nineteen years of experience in the Scouts (seven as a Scout, twelve as an adult leader), some of the parents still tend to think of me as not knowing what I am doing because I am younger than they are and don't have kids. Several times, when I've tried to tell them about staying back and letting the kids run themselves (no element of danger, just kids needing to figure out for themselves on something), I've gotten comments like "when you have kids, you'll understand". I'd like to say to them, "Once you've been on enough campouts, you'll understand" (of course I don't).

As my troop is in the growing stages (we've gone from six to eleven in the past year and a half), I know what you are going through. A lot of the previous suggestions are great (I've dug the posters here for advice many times). Here is what we did and why: 1. The top youth leader was the patrol leader. One, because he wasn't leading a troop, but rather a patrol. When we added a second patrol in April, we promoted our PL to SPL and elected two patrol leaders. 2. For a long time, the troop acted as the Patrol Leaders Council. Now, we have a PLC with the SPL, two PL's, and scribe, plus anyone else who wants to come. We used to spend a lot of time at meetings planning, but now anyone that wants to be involved in the planning process has to come to a separate meeting (things get done much fast with 4-5 Scouts versus 10). 3. We slowly added staff positions. Our PL appointed the staff positions after the Scouts applied for which ones they wanted. We taught them what they needed to do and they are doing a pretty decent job. 4. Try to keep the decisions at the youth level. With a small, young troop, there will be a strong tendacy for parents and other adults to try and run things the Scouts are capable of running. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me at chippewa29vigil@yahoo.com

Please tell me if I am off base on this, but I believe that my role as SM of our troop is being stepped upon. On Monday, the Scouts in my troop picked a t-shirt design and color they wanted for the shirt. A couple of months before, when I brought up the subject to the troop committee, they said troop t-shirts sounded great and if the kids wanted to do it, then go ahead. After getting prices this morning, I sent an email out to the troop letting them know about the decision and how much the shirts would cost as well as the sizes available (basically, the order information). I immediately heard back from two families saying what they wanted. About an hour after I sent the message, I got an email that our former SM sent to the entire troop saying that the parents committee (what he calls the troop committee) needs to approve the t-shirts before any order is placed (each scout/family is paying for their own). I feel that the kids made a decision with my guidance (I gave them parameters for the design and submitted a design myself) and that having the committee approve it is micromanaging. Lately, our ex-SM has been wanting more decisions made by the committee that should be made by the PLC or the SM (I tend to push as many decisions as possible to the PLC). By the way, our ex-SM is a Wood Badge graduate (I'm sure it would come up).

Jerry- You mentioned that the older Scouts don't really want to do Scout things, but the younger ones do. My suggestion is to do a "true" Scout program for the younger Scouts while letting the older ones continue to do whatever. Just try to separate them as much as you can. The older Scouts can conduct a varsity program to keep things within the confines of the Scout program. When changing an organization, focus on the future. If the older Scouts really don't like having a true Scout program, then they can leave (you definitely won't need to force them out, but if their interests aren't really with the Scouts, then they can find another activity to join in). At some point, some changes need to be made for the long term good of the troop. It may involve taking a step backward in order to go forward. When I took over my track team a few years back, it was terrible. I changed a lot of things (I actually made them work) and lost a lot of girls who didn't want to work or be successful. However, by the end of the season, I had a dedicated group of young ladies very interested in making the team better. By our fourth year, we were undefeated in dual meets and the next two years, won our twelve team conference. Along the way, we have developed a lot of not only good athletes, but very high quality young people that are proud to be part of our team and willing to work hard to be successful. I didn't like losing some of those girls the first year, but looking back now, it was the best thing I've done. It will be a tough decision for both you and your son. Check out some other troops and think about how you'd like your current troop to be. I wish you the best of luck in making your choice.

I would absolutely love to have your problems. I'm pretty excited that my troop is now in double digits for the first time in several years. I can't imagine having that many kids and adults around. My first thought when you get that many kids is to split the troop. Over the years (at least for the past 16-18), I've checked out other troops in our area (due to my involvement in the OA) and talked to other people about how their home troops operated. From what I've heard over the years, the ideal troop size is about forty Scouts or so. With that many, you have a good range of ages as well as enough of each age group so each Scout has a group of guys he feels comfortable with. Also, the troop is large enough to conduct high quality contests and activities while everyone is still able to know everyone else. One of the adults I knew from the OA was SM of a troop that has hovered between 70-100 Scouts for twenty plus years. He has said that would have preferred to get the troop to about fifty kids because he always felt that fifty was the number of kids that he could get to know at one time. He always felt that there were kids he never got to know unless they were in the troop for more than a couple of years because there were so many. He conducted all SM conferences himself (delegating a lot of other things to his 18-20 ASM's), but commented that the only time he came in contact with a lot of the kids was at SM conference time, so they weren't as quality as they could have been (ie: the First Class SM conference was the same feeling of unfamiliarity as the Boy Scout SM conference with a brand new Scout). Also, there is a troop in our area that usually has 60-70 Scouts. They tend to cross over 25-30 Webelos a year (from 5 or 6 different packs), much to the chagrin of us smaller troops who could use the 3-4 kids from one of those packs to help us put together a second patrol. Then tend to lose 1/2-2/3 of those Webelos by the fall (a higher percentage than most of us lose during that time). I know a couple of the older Scouts (age 17) from that troop and both have told me that they wish the troop were smaller. Apparently, the troop is run by a very few people and everyone just kinds of goes along for the ride. No effort is made to spread the leadership around. I do know of one troop that had about 100 Scouts and felt they needed to split because they had become too large. They got a group of 7-8 Scouts (along with several leaders) to go to the new troop. Their church sponsored the new troop as well and the troop committee gave the new troop some equipment and money to start off. They held joint activities on a regular basis for the first couple of years. Also, in regards to recruiting, they had six packs that normally fed into them. They had two of the packs continue to feed into the older troop, while the other four would feed into the new troop for a few years. After a few years, the old troop was down to a very solid seventy Scouts and the new troop had about 40-50. They were very similar in a lot of ways (same equipment, sponsor, history) but eventually developed enough uniqueness about them so that they could be distinguished from each other. If you have a strong leadership development system that allows the troop to run smoothly and make sure kids don't feel lost, then keep the troop large. However, if you are getting to the point where you feel you are losing kids because of a lack of a personal touch, ten you need to take steps to set up a second troop or encourage kids to join other troops in your area.

In our troop, we have the kids wear uniforms for meals. They arrive at camp Friday night in uniform, then change once camp is set up. Then, they wear their uniforms for breakfast in the morning and can change for the days activities. Then, in the evening, we "dress for dinner". It seems to work out ok. We get the unity of having the kids wear their uniforms, but we've found that they look better when worn in limited doses. Some kids, if they were the uniforms all weekend, will have them such a mess by the time Saturday evening comes around, they definitely need to change.

Fellow Scouters, I understand your concerns when someone brings up something that may not be entirely BSA standard. However, please be careful to keep a thread on the subject intended or a reasonable off shoot. Many of the threads in this forum start off about one subject, but then tend to turn into (very similar) debates on BSA policy or something else unrelated to the original intent of the thread. If someone starts a post on tying knots on a campout, please don't start up about the cost of uniforms. Thank You, Chippewa29

For a couple of years, the kids, in order to save time, were doing incredibly basic meals (especially breakfast and lunch). Breakfast got to the point of a bagel and cream cheese and juice (if we were lucky). Fortunately, a couple of new parents spoke up and said they felt the kids should be eating better (our previous SM is someone who rarely eats breakfast at all and his attitude for Sunday mornings was to get up, pack up, and be out of there ASAP). Also, the kids got tired of bagels or cold cereal or oatmeal (a really elaborate meal). Part of the problem was that the kids weren't expected to get up at any time. They just slept until they felt like getting up (basically, another trait of the previous regime). I'm calling a lady who is on the training staff for our district to come in to our committee meeting on the basis of promoting the training coming up in the fall. I've discussed this with her when I went to training last spring and she said it is a very common problem (as we've seen by these boards). I'm hoping that she'll be able to promote these people going to training and help these parents (who really are very good people that I like a lot) realize that the kids can run themselves with minimal adult intervention. It just takes time and patience and the ability to let the kids make mistakes.

I'm about ready to bang my head against the wall. The more I think about this, the more frustrating it is. Back in February, myself and one of the dads took four Scouts camping at our local council camp. The dad spent a good part of the day Saturday off in a corner of camp working on a report for work (no big deal, we needed to make sure we were two deep). It was the fewest adults we've had on a campout in years. Something funny happened. The Scouts got things done on their own without my help and did it in a reasonable time. It was arguably our four best Scouts, but still, they got things done without having myself or the other adult get involved. However, on the next couple of campouts, when we had half a dozen adults along, it took the kids forever to do things. Then, one or two adults complains about the lack of efficiency, and I'm having to defend the idea of the boys learning how to do things by experience (we've shown them how in the past) and not having the adults jump in whenever something little goes wrong. I am a firm believer that you can (can, not always) learn more from your failures and making mistakes than you do from your successes. I believe that you teach the kids, then stand back and let them experience the learning for themselves. A couple of the adults in my troop have accused me of setting the kids up for failure and that you damage their self-esteem by doing that. I believe that when you don't let a kid do things for themselves, they have no self-esteem to damage. As has been said before, if safety is not an issue, then they are ok. I've never let a kid get hurt before. However, these parents think the kids need to be protected constantly. I've asked them several times "At what point are you going to let them grow up and do things on their own?" Another example of this is when we are out on a campout. I have no problem letting the kids go off on a hike for an hour or two as a group. Usually, we have a fifteen year old Eagle Scout with them and at worst, several competent thirteen year olds. These kids have been hiking many times and know how to stay safe, especially when there are a half dozen or so of them. The area where we camp doesn't have the worry of them running into strangers that are a problem (usually, if we run into strangers, it is another Scout group or a church group or something of that nature). I think some of their best learning experiences will come when they are alone as a group (no adults) and have to rely on themselves. If they get a little lost (once again, the places we camp aren't filled with danger), they will learn better how to remember their way in the woods (besides, I've taught them some ways to remember their way back). We didn't learn our way around by using a GPS system or having a guide constantly, but rather by using what we learned and being resourceful. Wow, I got that out of my system. Anyone have any solutions (other than training, as our next one doesn't come again until September)?

Need some opinions. My troop is starting to mature, but is still very young (all but one Scout are 13 or younger). On our last campout, the scouts planned pancakes for breakfast but forgot a griddle. Therefore, it took them two hours to make, eat, and cleanup breakfast. It pushed back the schedule so we started the hike later. Our previous SM, who was on his second campout with the troop in over a year, made a big stink at the next committee meeting about how the kids didn't do things correctly, they need better training, etc. A bunch of the parents now think that the adults need to be standing right over the Scouts while they do their cooking and cleanup. I feel that the Scouts have been taught how to do things correctly (we've spent several troop meetings on the subject and done a lot of camping where things were done correctly, mostly when parents weren't around) and just need more practice. However, I myself am getting a little frustrated at how the Scouts have done these things correctly before, but regress when there are lots of adults around. The adults and youth cook separately. I've seen our troop in the past where it took several years for the Scouts to become really proficient and efficient at cooking. I think the kids just need more practice and will get better with more time (I tend to think the kids can run themselves if allowed and expected to do it). The other adults think that they need to take more control over things and more closely supervise the Scouts. Any advice?

My troop just went from one patrol to two patrols for the first time in about four years. We ended up grouping them by age for right now. Our new Scout patrol has a 13 year old patrol leader who actually relates better to the 11 year olds than his peers. When October rolls around (six months after forming the patrols), we plan on opening up the patrol membership in both patrols for all troop members so the numbers are fairly even (right now, our new Scout patrol has eight while the experienced patrol has five). Next spring, we hope to add another new Scout patrol. In fall 2003, we'll fill in empty spots (add three for a patrol of five, etc.) from the new Scout patrol and hopefully, there will be enough new Scouts available for a strong third patrol. This process will be repeated as we grow and need to fill holes left by Scouts leaving the troop or becoming the troop SPL or ASPL. It seems to be working out pretty well so far, but we're only a few weeks into it. We'll see what happens in a month or two.

At our troop committee meeting on Monday, I announced that we had elected patrol leaders and the SPL was taking applications for troop staff positions (QM, Scribe, Historian, Librarian), which after next week, which he will appoint in consultation with me (the SM). One of the other adults said that those positions are elected and very much insisted on the point (he is never wrong). Could someone please back me up on this (or correct me if need be).

WoodBadgeEagle- Could you please email me at chippewa29vigil@yahoo.com? I have some questions I'd like to ask you about what you are doing.

Quixote- Just because a Scout does not attend church on a regular basis or outwardly express their faith does not mean they are not doing their duty to God or not being reverent. Duty to God is a very broad term that can be interpreted in thousands of different ways. As has been discussed before in other threads, which kind of Scout would you rather have in your troop: a Scout that says the right things and goes to religious services on a regular basis but isn't really a good person in daily life OR a Scout that exemplifies all the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in their daily life but doesn't attend church or outwardly express his faith in any way? Being reverent for a Scout is being faithful in his religious beliefs (whatever they may be) and being respectful of the beliefs (or non-beliefs, what is chosen) of other people. A lot of great kids have come through the Scouts over the years that weren't what you would call religious, but exhibited many or most of the great qualities our society would call a "good Christian" in their daily lives. Is that going to hurt anyone?

I had a very interesting troop meeting last night and the things that happened pertain quite a bit to what has been discussed on this thread. First, on the appointed SPL. Right now, my troop has a Scout who is on the verge of Eagle and has been our SPL/PL (we've only had one patrol for the most part of that time). Our next most senior Scout just turned 13 and is second class. Our SPL was initially elected, but has stayed in the position since because we've had no one else qualified. By the end of the year, a couple of the 13 year olds will probably be qualified to be SPL and our current one will gladly step aside and help out as a JASM. Second, we split the Scouts last night into two patrols and elected patrol leaders. Both are thirteen and second class. Both have held staff positions before (we started handing those out last fall for the first time in a few years), but this is the first time either will be the "top guy" for a group. It will be a good learning experience for both of them. Our SPL, after we did the election, immediately (and excitedly) brought up the idea of having PLC meetings, which made me almost jump in excitement. The burden of planning has been on myself and the SPL for quite some time, and I think he's very happy to have help with it. Finally, my troop is going backpacking the weekend after next. We've done "backpacking" a couple of times before where the Scouts set up camp and spent a majority of the day hiking with daypacks. The Scouts specifically requested in January that they get to actually backpack this year (meaning caring equipment on their backs). A group of adults in the troop discussed this last night and some of them felt the kids still "weren't ready" to handle backpacking (they are for the most part average size kids) and wanted to just camp and hike. I was able to get them to compromise so that the kids who want to carry their equipment will, but the others who don't feel they're ready (or their parents don't feel are ready). My biggest challenge seems to be getting the parents to believe their kids are capable of doing more than they have in the past. I don't always agree with the kids in the troop and if I really want something, I will try to influence them. However, there have been times where they wanted to do something that was different than me but still within BSA guidelines, so I let it go because ultimately, it is their program.

I don't know about the gay issue, because I've never heard it discussed by anyone other than lifers. However, I would have to agree with the statement made earlier that stated parents prefer youth sports to the Boy Scouts. Saying your son is an athlete and on a travel hockey or soccer team is much more "glamourous" than saying he is a Boy Scout. If people remember correctly, the BSA's membership dropped sharply in the 1970's, when fallout from Vietnam (or whatever other reason) turned off a good chunk of that generation to Scouting. Who are the parents now? That generation. The Boy Scouts were definitely not an "in" thing at that time, so they don't have the fond memories or good reputation that I grew up with (in the 80's).

On another thread, there was a little discussion about how other countries (Australia in this case) had coed Scouting, even at younger ages. It seems like there are always rumors floating around about the BSA going coed even younger than Venture (such as at the Boy Scout level). Before I post my thoughts on it, I'd like to hear what others think about it. Keep in mind that most countries around the world do coed Scouting by Boy Scout age. I think Japan and the US are the only major countries to still have separate programs.

I remember being at the World Jamboree in 87-88 and talking to the Australians (and Kiwis) about the program going coed. I was quite jealous (I was 15 at the time) and wondered how they were going to pull that off. The Kiwis said the transition (which they had done a couple of years before) went incredibly well and smoother than anticipated. Before I get too off subject, I'll start another thread so we can discuss the rumors always going around about the BSA going coed at the Boy Scout level.

My feeling (and the one I've gotten from several Boy Scout leaders who have tried the Boy Scout bead system is that it is better suited for the Cubs. The little kids love it, but they seem to grow out of it by the time they reach Boy Scouts or soon after. Also, if the kids are active, the beads are very easy to lose.

shemgren- I stay in Scouting for many of the same reasons you do. While in Webelos, my leader was an Eagle Scout who told us all these great stories about what the Boy Scouts were like. Crossover couldn't come fast enough for us. The troop I ended up crossing over to was adult run and had some pretty rough kids in it (although most were great). After about three months, my Webelos leader called me and said he was helping to start a new troop that was going to be boy run and he would help me have a Scouting experience similar to the one he had. I transferred along with four other guys from my troop and we did great for the first year or two. However, my Webelos leader left the troop after a year when his son lost interest and he disagreed with the SM on some things. My troop never did become like the dream my Webelos Leader spun for me. My troop went through a couple of SM while I was a Scout and experienced a lot of ups and downs. However, that dream has never died. Through my involvement with the OA, I saw a lot of the things my Webelos Leader described in other troops. Today, I'm working to build the troop I always wanted to belong to and for the Scouts to have the experiences in the troop (developing friends, etc.) that I never had. I think the BSA is greatly helped by volunteers that don't have sons involved and that involvement helps the BSA's image.

Of the 11 youth members of my troop, six different churches in five different denominations (including one Jewish Scout) are represented. As I am not a very religious person and believe that religion should be an individual pursuit, we don't conduct any type of religious services in our unit. Obviously, if a troop is strongly affiliated with a particular faith (such as the LDS or Jewish and sometimes Catholic), then religious services are very appropriate. However, in a "secular" troop (like mine), I believe that the Scouts should be encouraged to study and develop their own spirituality. For example, for Scout Sunday, we had a parent that was strongly pushing for all the Scouts in the troop to attend the service of the church that is our sponsor (we have a good, but not strong relationship), which happens to be of the same denomination he is in. He even insinuated that the Scouts weren't following the Scout Law if they didn't attend Scout Sunday with the troop. I encouraged the Scouts in the troop to attend Scout Sunday services at their own place of worship and several did in their uniforms. The Scouts in my troop don't care what religion or denomination each other belongs to. They don't see each other as the "Jewish kid" or the "Mormon kid". They just see each other as their troop mates and respect the beliefs of others. There are a lot of parents these days that felt oppressed by religion as youths 20-30 years ago and now counteract it by trying to have their kids avoid all religions. They are afraid that if their kids are exposed to any type of formal religion, they will become like the religious fanatics they encountered as youth. I went to a Catholic Mass while out camping with my troop one year as a youth (seven of the nine Scouts on the campout, plus the adults, were Catholic). The adults told myself and the other non-Catholic Scout that we needed to go with them, but it was our option whether or not to participate when they gave the offerings. We both stayed in the pews during the offerings and basically just sat quietly and observed the service. I had never been to a Catholic Mass before, so it was interesting to see. Not at any point did I feel like I was being "forced" to convert or anything else of that nature. When it comes to services at camp, there are three types: denominational, non-denominational, and ecumenical (?). The denominational would be for a particular denomination and feature the traditions of that faith. The non-demoninational doesn't feature the traditions of a particular denomination, but rather traditions common to all Christians (or Jews or Muslims). The ecumenical talks about good values and maybe a higher being, but it tends to stay pretty general (many Scout ones focus on the Scout Oath and Law, since those shouldn't offend any members and are very inclusive).

This thread has actually turned into a very thoughtful discussion about ways to preserve memories. I think many of the ideas are great, but I tend to cringe at the thought of all those patches being sewn on and worn around. As an avid patch collector (trading was by far my favorite activity at the Jambos and NOAC I attended), I tend to put my patches in plastic sleeves and binders to preserve them. I only wear the bear essentials on my uniform. Although I attended three jamborees, I don't wear any of those patches on my uniform. I guess I can't stand the thought of those patches getting dirty or worn out. However, every one should be able to display their patches on a jacket or blanket or whatever. I believe the main uniform should be kept fairly uncluttered, giving it a much sharper appearance. The "clutter" of all the patches should be saved for the jackets, blankets, or in my case, binders. Something else to keep in mind when wearing a "brag" item. Are you doing it so that everyone can be impressed with you and tell you how wonderful you are, or are you doing it for the betterment of the Scouts. I've seen some Scouters walk around with 15-18 square knots on their uniforms and a wool coat so full of patches, you can't tell what the color is. They spend so much time talking about themselves and the adventures they had and the awards they earned, etc. that you really wonder if they are in Scouting to help the boys or to be a member of the good ole boys club. Some Scouters think they are great Scouters because of all those patches and awards from their past. In reality, their quality as a Scouter should be judged by what they are doing for the youth of today. Another way to look at it is this. A scout in my troop wears his medals (he has a religious award and a trail medal), merit badge sash, and brag vest to every meeting. 95% of the words coming out of his mouth are him telling whoever will listen about what he's done and how wonderful he is. He never shows any interest whatsoever in the interests or opinions of other people. His parents and I are trying to impress on him that he should be more courteous and try to learn more about other people (ask their name, their interests, etc.) The next week, we had a Webelos den visit and first thing, he went up to a couple of them and asked "What's your name?" Before they could answer, he said "My name is XXXXXX. This is my God and Country. I got it because..." (you get the picture). Margaret Thatcher had a great quote on being a leader. She said, "Being in charge is like being a lady. If you have to tell them you are, then you aren't." The same can be said for the Scouts and Scouters with their bragging. If you have to tell they should be impressed with you, they won't be.

I liked Mommascout's comment on how the people that decided to start their own troop eventually have to get training. About ten years ago, the adults in my troop (I chose to stay neutral) had a big fallout, with several people being forced out (one needed to go, the others I would have like to see stay). The one who was the biggest proponent of "booting" the other adults didn't think uniforms were necessary, smoked in front of the kids, and ordered out pizza once when the kids burned dinner on a campout. After about 6-8 months of being totally frustrated, he finally decided to get trained and changed his tune quite a bit. As time went on he realized that two of the people he forced out really weren't that bad and he was now doing things very similar to what they had been doing (the BSA way). What I've seen when people leave a troop like that and decide to start their own troop is that they basically have a troop for their kids that lasts for a few years and then the troop dies. I've seen three troops in my area do that very thing in the past 10-12 years. The first year or two is great, but then things start getting stale and by the fourth or fifth year, the troop exists mainly on paper and solely for the purpose of a couple of Scouts to get their Eagle awards.

Something I'm still working on with the adults in my troop is getting them to let their son make his own mistakes on a campout. I try to tell them that when they go on a campout, they are Scout leaders, not parents. Therefore, they need to treat all of the kids the same and not "favor" (over parent) their own son. If they tell their own son to make sure he has his warm coat on and zipped up, be sure to tell that to every Scout in the troop that is doing the same thing. Or, if their son isn't putting away his mess kit after a meal, they need to tell the patrol leader to make sure all the kids put their mess kits away and have him tell the individuals if needed. I'm very fortunate that my parents were very good about letting me go when I got into Scouts. They met the adult leaders of the troop, asked them about expectations, then let me go. They helped me pack for my first trip (using the list they got from the troop leaders), but then I was on my own. If I forgot my pillow, they didn't bring it to camp for me. I sleep with my head on the ground or used my jacket. If I forgot my mess kit, I was really nice to the other guys in my patrol and got to parts of theirs. It didn't kill me to eat cereal off a plate a couple of times or drink out of a bowl or try to eat a whole meal using only a spoon. I learned not to forget my stuff in the future and my parents didn't feel like they would always have to take care of me. Most (but not all) of the other guys I went through my early Scouts years with had parents similar to mine. Some of the Scouts in my troop are like that, but it seems like more and more of them won't let go of their kids or force them to take responsibility for their actions (or non-actions).