Achilleez

Yes Bob, you are free to close your home to anyone you choose. You are also free to be a fornicator and adulterer, but that does not make it right. My question to you is, why? Why have you made the decision to close your home off to atheists? Do you beleive God would disapprove of you helping an atheist? Is it your own personal spite for atheism? Or is it because you have become so prejudiced that you have made the mental connection of atheism with criminal and immoral. I suppose I am to continue living out my crazy mixed up life in which I try to help all and not judge people based

(This message has been edited by Achilleez)

I admire and comend your resolute faith BW. Yet I fear that it may have overwhelmed your sense of decency. Tell me, honestly, if a naked starving man showed up at your doorstop who you somehow knew was an atheist, would you turn him away? Because if you exist in a frame of mind that forbids assisting this man and letting him into your home, then that makes me all the more hesitant to show interest in your religion.

"Having fun is a communist mentality that seeks to keep people childish." And I though FOG was a grump.

For me, I was finding it to be a fascinating debate, stirring up some things that I havn't thought about since philosophy class. My objective is to explain my position while at the same time come to a better understanding of his position. By the way Wheeler, as long as we are using Aristotle to argue for us, it's interesting to note that according to Aristotle's own logic, the existence of a God would be impossible. The 'four causes' model explains that every object in the universe is a result of the material cause, formal cause, essential cause, and final cause. God has no material cause

So your claim is that God has always been. If that's true then he will exist 1 000 000 years in the future, as well as 1 000 000 years in the past. Tell me, if I took a time machine and went backwards 50 000 years, where would I be? In the infinite darkness of space with no energy or matter anywhere? What I could never understand in the church is why, out of God's infinite life in the cosmos, was the universe created only 30 000 years ago? Why not before, because after all God has existed forever. You want to punch down my arguement by asking how the mathematical formulas were created. Well, t

"I sincerely hope that this stops soon. " Laurie hopes that Scouting will stop soon!! Betrayer!!

Life is a cereal bowl of knowledge. My spoon is small but my stomach is hungry.

I am perfectly aware of the mathematicians that concluded that the existence of a God was the only possible explanation for the beginning and creation of mathematics. I am also perfectly aware that people used to conclude that angels who pushed the moon and sun around was the only possible explanation for the movement of these objects. Your right, every action has an infinite number of reactions stretching out into the future and also had an infinite number of causes stretching out into the past. As some beleive, that line of causes has to reach a beginning somewhere. But that has not bee

Wherever this gaping hole in my heart exists that you presume I have, I don't know where it is. To answer your earlier question, yes, I am perfectly comfortable in the beleif that the universe can be scientifically and mathematically explained. I own my own businesses on a farm that has been mortgage free for the past 11 years. I have a wife and family whom I love. If I continue my business for another 5-10 years, I will be able to look forward to a nice and happy retirement. I have acheived these things because of my hard work and dependable reputation among clients. Life has been good to me,

I will agree to the beginning of your post. Given the atmosphere, I have since realized that making such a request was not the most logical of things to do. Not that it has proved useless however, for I am now wiser than I was at the beginning of this post, due to replies of others. This is of course a driving reason for the existence of a forum such as this: allow people to express what's on their mind, listen to what others have to say and become a wiser person for it. What I will not agree to is your claim that I do not share the respect of the values the BSA attempts to instill upon i

It seems confusing that in order to defend the truth of scripture, Wheeler has chosen to give me scripture quotes. Does no one realize that to someone who does not put stock in the bible, biblical quotes won't convince him of much?

I agree, 'hate' was the wrong word choice. To rephrase: "Although I still do not regard this as proof to disapprove of the act of homosexuality, I see why some would". This is simply because personally biblical passages mean little to me. But I see now how Christians justify their claim that God condemns homosexuality.

And all of the people of the world were gathered at the gates of God's Kingdom awaiting judgement. God took all the people and gathered them into his hands. To his right hand he said, "You have been good to me. I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me water. I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you comforted me. I was in jail and you visited me. For this you shall be rewarded will eternal life in my kingdom." To his left hand he spoke to Bob White, "You have not been good to me. I was hungry and you did not feed me. I was thirsty and you did not give me wa

Rooster7, After refering to a bible I have kicking around the house, I whole-heartedly admit my mistake. I now see the direct message the bible gives towards homosexuality. Although I still do not regard this as proof that we should all hate homosexuals, I see why some would. Adrianvs, I tried to look up your part, but couldn't find anything regarding to not eating 'clean' or 'unclean' animals. Perhaps you could give a specific passage reference. And I havn't given up. Infact I have spent a large quantity of time trying to figure out what makes people beleive that every word in

BW, I do not claim to know the origin of the premises on which we live and function. I simply choose to beleive that the universe is ordered and structered based on natural forces which can be described mathematically. Yet the question of our two situations is the exact same : what started it? How was your God created and how were my natural forces created. Both questions completely unanswerable. Again, our situations are not completely different. I beleive the natural forces are not sentient but you beleive they are. Oh, and if God intented his Christians not to let atheists in

God told me to come here.

Are you going to lecture me about using only bible verses that you want to? Are you going to claim that every aspect of the bible must be followed literally? If so you are more hypocritical than I thought. Do you eat pork? Do you eat animals that are "clean" or "unclean"? Or have you disregarded those terms because you feel they no longer apply today. I can understand that I will never come to full agreement on this matter since personally I do not follow the bible to strict adherence. But, you cannot allow yourself to be so blinded as to carry words two thousand years forward and expect

"No one knows it exists" Forgive my rudeness, but Canada is quite recognized. Though most Americans are quite ignorant of it, you depend on us almost as much as we depend on you. Your northern states would be in quite a pickle without trade with us. Canada and the US breath together economically, you can see it if you look at any business cycle graph over the last 100 years.

Being that homosexuality is one of the most debated topics on this forum, I felt obliged to get this monkey off my shoulder. I don't at all mind debate over homosexuality or its place in private organizations such as the BSA, but what really fuses me is the constant use of the bible as a weapon against gay rights. I know that is says in the bible (no idea where) that theives, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, and homosexuals will not see God's kingdom (or something along those lines anyway). This and similar passages in scripture are among the most prominent weapons used to justify homosexua

Atheism is my beleif system. State that it implies no degree of science if you like, but that is simply not true, at least not to me. To me, the universe can be described through a system of mathematical equations, extremely complicated equations, but a system non the less. If I go to a zoo, it is living proof of my beleif system. Hundreds of animals that exist on very complicated parameters. The animal that needs a beak, has a beak. The animal that needs strong legs for running, has strong legs for running. In this way our beleifs are not so very different, the difference being that I beleive

You took the words out of my mouth.

Well Bob White, how exactly do you define the word religion? Because if "religion" means how you beleive that the world came to be, how life sustains itself, and how the universe works in general, then I HAVE made my choice. And that choice is to beleive in science. Just because it is not classified as a religion does not mean it deserves any less respect. If I beleived that the entire universe were sneezed out of a giant green nose and called it a religion, then would you respect it?

The following isn't particularily directed at this thread. But I figured it was a good of place as any to put it. Nor do I share the views presented in it. But Gwynne Dyer is a respected Canadian historian and journalist, and this is what he had to say on terrorism. West Overrates Terrorism The Toronto Star ^ | September 10, 2003 | Gwynne Dyer Posted on 09/10/2003 11:28:07 AM PDT by quidnunc Two years on, Sept. 11 is still a raw anniversary for most Americans, who cannot forget the terrible scenes in lower Manhattan as more than 3,000 people died in

Yes, that statement was necessary. Why? Because the first time I mentioned I was Canadian, me and my friends were called socialists.