Muttsy

I just watched the most recent fireside chat. Three days ago I thing it was posted. These guys had absolutely nothing substantive to say. Gates in particular was glummer than he appeared on 9/11. The unspoken parts were 1) the Councils are furious and won’t listen to these guys any longer; 2) he’s terrified by the realization this thing is going to blow up (“we stick together or we hang separately”). National leadership is neither respected nor feared. LC’s seriously contemplating breaking away and taking their chances negotiating as a collective without National involvement which it regards as responsible for disaster after disaster.

The BP issue is not cancel culture but the need to examine the man’s actual history. It’s hard to do because of the passage of time and the lack of original source materials. This book presents an extremely disturbing picture of BP. Whatever the truth, his excessively and perhaps unjustified glorification, is a public relations problem today. https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/12235500/4-elevated-paedophiles-greg-hallett-and-spymaster

This is hard evidence nothing will change in this organization. If you wonder whether BSA is doomed, watch these guys. They are borderline delusional. It’s true, for scouting to live, BSA must die. The movement needs a new birth of freedom to wash away decades of failed, discredited, amoral National non-leadership.

Nah…everything is hunk dory according to these ancient relics.

Good observations. It would be a global deal in the sense that the unresolved assets like insurance, CO's and LC's not participating all get thrown in to a post-confirmation trust. That is basically the TCC/Coalition/FCR Plan. BSA apparently signed on or is close. Century/Chubb will be dealt with down the road by the post confirmation Trust. BSA gets to emerge. Question I have is how much is BSA and participating LC's kicking in to the pot right now? None of the non-participating entities will get channelled and can take their chances in the tort system. That's my wild guess.

One week. Well, we shall see what we shall see.

He's tweeted extensively about this. No one pays him any attention.

Kosnoff pushed hard for the TCC to start this litigation a year ago. He got voted off the island. That's when he went rogue.

veil piercing or alter ego, take your pick. The LC Charter agreement with was conditioned in part on the LC incorporating in its home state. It also provides that National can dissolve an LC for any reason or no reason. Given this level of control by national, isn't the LC's corporate separateness illusory?

Yes, also reverse corporate veil piercing theory is viable to for the Trustee to get to the LC assets as assets of the bankrupt's estate.

JP Morgan is a secured creditor. Its votes don't count. The voting that matters is of the "impaired classes" of creditors. Aside from a few trade creditors, the survivors are the only impaired class of voters that matter. Without 2/3rds of the survivors no plan that gives third party releases to non-debtors can be confirmed. The survivors are in complete control of the outcome of this case.

Incorrect. The judge will not be deciding the compensation contribution. This is not a real court or a real judge. This is let's make a deal court with the judge deciding....well, I can't think of anything she's decided. The parties will come to terms or the bankruptcy will be converted to a liquidation by the BSA or the judge will dismiss the bankruptcy. That's about the extent of her authority. A cram down would need substantial support from the survivors. I don't see it happening.

I don't care much about "shoulds." What I believe should happen about anything beyond my control is an exercise in navel gazing and self-induced frustration. I prefer to use facts and analysis to come to a conclusion about what I think is a probably outcome. If BSA dies, it will be the result of a slow suicide. I think that you and several others are seeing the end of days and the probably outcome of this bankruptcy. Anything is possible but a plan that leaves a shrunken BSA to emerge from bankruptcy. There will be assets to distribute but after confirmation the Trustee will pursue the insurance assets and the LC's and CO's and bring in more assets to the Trust. Survivors will get "awards" or points from which they will receive a their individual percentage of the recoveries as they come in to the trust. Survivors will get a series of distributions over time. Yes, BSA will die, eventually. It may not even survive five years after it emerges.. There will be more victims who will come forward that were abused after the filing date 2/20/20 who will not be barred by the channelling injunction from filing lawsuits. Anyone who believes BSA will protect children in future because its "learned its lesson" doesn't understand the history that brought it to this moment. Experts say that the scouting model cannot be made reasonably safe unless every parent is present for every event. That is not the BSA model. Finally, what insurance company is ever going to issue liability coverage to BSA? Or it will be cost-prohibitive. And what parent will entrust their child to a group that is so unsafe that it can't get insurance?

CS, the Congressional Charter issue is a widely misunderstood thing. There are papers from the Congressional Research office that advise Congress on endless subjects including Congressional Charters. BSA is not the only entity to have a Congressional Charter. There are several others. The CRO says the charter imparts no responsibility on the US Government. The Charter is in the nature of an Honorarium --symbolic. It does not impart perpetual existence. BSA is incorporated in the district. It is subject to the corporate laws of the district. The Attorney General for the District of Columbia (not the Justice Department) has the power to initiate a lawsuit seeking to judicially dissolve the BSA's corporate existence. This is a power that is not infrequently exercised to deal with corporations committing criminal and socially-injurious acts. BSA's corporate existence could be judicially terminated without an act of Congress. His name is Karl Racine. https://oag.dc.gov/

Mismanaged and criminally managed corporations die all the time. Think Enron, Madoff Investment Securities LLC, Arthur Anderson LLP , yada yada yada. Where on earth does this concept come that BSA has this privilege that no other corporation possesses? Being a non-profit is partly the cause of it being on the brink. . If it had been a for-profit, there would have been shareholders who rebelled and who would have gotten rid of the National Board and put in new management decades ago. Hundreds of lawsuits is bad business. Shareholders understand. Here there was no one watching the store. The insiders ran it. The National Board was filled with clueless dignitaries who never bothered to ask the question...."so, I saw that piece on ABC News 20/20 (1988) or the series in the Washington Times etc etc about these Ineligible Volunteer files...what are they and may we see them." Where was the oversight? Where was Tillerson, Gates, and the big shots from yesteryear? No, this is why great empires fall. Not from attack from outside enemies but by internal rot.

"Adequate" is an impossible word to apply to the human carnage BSA caused. And it is especially arrogant coming from BSA to imply or suggest that it has the slightest idea of what it means. The word should be "acceptable" not adequate. What is acceptable is probably the going rate nationally which is in the neighborhood of $1-1.5M average case value. Does BSA or Chubb/Century have the ability to pay that amount even if they were all liquidated? No. So BSA should just shut up about compensation. They won't be deciding the question, the voting survivors will. And that amount should be every penny that can be gotten. Even if getting the last penny takes 20 years of litigation by the Trustee. It's called justice.

I tend to agree. Hard to imagine the Coalition lawyers settling out without the official committee. That would create a firestorm. It would be opposed by the US Trustee and it’s protnot possible under the bankruptcy code. Similarly situated claimants have to be similarly treated under any plan. KOSNOFF controls 17,000 clients. He’d go berserk.

I’ll meet your North Carolina and raise you NY, NJ, VT, CN, CA, OR, WA, DC. AR was a welcome surprise as were bills introduced in OK and again in GA which got outmaneuvered by the insurance and Catholic Church lobby. My point is to echo the word “inevitable. The MI AG story is the handwriting on the wall if only the recalcitrants could escape their self-destructive denial.

Look backs are not the only way to get around SOLs. There are other recognized tolling theories. Fraudulent Concealment tolling opened the door in Idaho for example. It is a federal court ruling. It is likely to be followed in many states. Plus look back windows are coming fast and furious to a theatre near you. Look for IA, GA, FL, Tx. Look backs are not blue state phenomena any longer. the Idaho case is the Judge Winmill decision. https://casetext.com/case/doe-v-boy-scouts-of-am-6

Johnsch322, That is not a crazy idea whatsoever. Schiovoni's masters at Chubb should feel some hostile public response. Chubb owns hundreds of subsidiary insurance companies world-wide. I would venture to say that there are members of this forum that pay insurance premiums to Chubb or one of its subsidiaries. I do. But I won't be renewing with Chubb next spring. Chubb Limited, incorporated in Zürich, Switzerland, is the parent company of Chubb, a global provider of insurance products covering property and casualty, accident and health, reinsurance, and life insurance and the largest publicly traded property and casualty company in the world.[2] Chubb operates in 55 countries and territories and in the Lloyd's insurance market in London. Clients of Chubb consist of multinational corporations and local businesses, individuals, and insurers seeking reinsurance coverage. Chubb provides commercial and personal property and casualty insurance, personal accident and supplemental health insurance, reinsurance and life insurance. The current corporate branding was established when ACE Limited acquired Chubb in 2016, then adopted the Chubb name.[

I agree with Michigander’s observations. Every AG in America is running for governor the day after they are elected. Political animals indeed. But that’s our system. personally, I don’t care her motives, I’m grateful she is. also agree she is probably clueless about the substance or scope of what she has publicly albeit vaguely committed her office. Again, that’s ok. We should urge the TCC to assist her. My rough calculations are between 3000-4000 of the claimants of the 84000 were abused in Michigan. im sure she has no idea…yet.

This is a big whoa! Let’s hope it spreads to other states quickly.

The Handbook of Instructions in the LDS Church instructs (Ch. 10) on how to deal with child sexual abuse. If you are LDS clergy or former clergy you are acquainted with it. It instructs lower clergy to call the Church's law firm in Salt Lake, not the police or civil authorities. The perpetrator not the bishop is to turn himself in to the police but it advises the perpetrator to first lawyer up. LDS clergy are discouraged from getting involved with the legal system. The Church's focus is 100% focused on itself and zero percent on the abused child. It is focused on preventing lawsuits and scandal. The number of LDS related proofs of claim may be less than 40% but that is unsurprising given how the Church discourages victims from utilizing the legal system instead of the the internal church court disciplinary system which is where complaints to the bishop, if they make it that far, die. helplineintakeform whitepixels_Redacted.pdf

A scout survivor who settled his lawsuit with the BSA about fifteen years ago paid Boyle for the rights to his book and put in up on the internet. It is attached. The reference is at page 272. 20420157_ScoutsHonorBookbyPatrickBoyle.pdf You can also download it free at https://youthtoday.org/2008/09/scouts-honor/

Interesting. Technically, BSA no longer enjoys exclusivity. It expired May 19th while it’s extension motion is still pending. Who is in control of the plan makes a huge difference. Right now we are in a strange limbo. We’ll see what the court does this Friday.