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Posts posted by RandomScouter

  1. 16 hours ago, ThenNow said:

    Hours. Total is before the holdback.

    Screen Shot 2022-03-02 at 3.34.40 PM.png

    ??? Pardon the French, but what the Flip-Flap are these people doing?  What exactly did Edwin J. Harron spend 2 full weeks of work time doing that could possibly be worth $100,000?  Is the case any closer to being settled?  Are the survivors any better off?  I know that the hourly rates incorporate a host of expenses (overhead, secretaries, rent, "lights-on" costs, payroll, chauffeur, PR, insurance and employee benefits, retirement contributions, vacation house in the Hamptons, etc.), but $800/hr.?  $1,000/hr.?  No wonder there had been comments once upon a time comparing those in this profession to certain avian species.  

    I see these kinds of numbers and my stomach starts to turn.

    And then I wonder, When is @ThenNow going to start billing them for his hours?  ;) 

    The more I see of bills like this, the more I just want to see the whole thing settled. Over. Done.

  2. @Scouting412 Welcome!  It took me a second to figure out your name, but then I got it - Pittsburgh, 412 - area code.  It's been a while since I saw 412...

    Anyway, I don't have any fabulous advice or anything (mostly I'm waiting for the coffee to kick in).  You'll find a wide range of experiences and advice on this forum.

    Welcome to the campfire.  Find a seat (camp chair, bench, tree stump), and help yourself to some coffee (or one of qwazse's espressos).

  3. 1 hour ago, tnmule20 said:

    Soon, we will be announcing our newest merit badge. While still currently in development, this merit badge will help Scouts learn about the diverse, unique identities and characteristics we each possess, understand different perspectives and experiences, and learn how to encourage an inclusive and welcoming culture in Scouting. Additionally, we have been reviewing and will continue to review every element of our programs to ensure diversity, equity and inclusion are ingrained at every level for participants and volunteers.

    If they are making sure DE&I is truly "ingrained at every level," is the MB truly needed?

    I wonder if they will also add explicit DE&I requirements for each rank from Cub up through Eagle?

  4. 1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

    New Jersey's five councils, serving 54,500 youths with assets totaling $56 million are being asked to contribute $14.2 million toward a $600 million council share of the proposed $1.9 billion national settlement. 

    Two Pennsylvania councils that serve parts of New Jersey with total assets of $23 million are being asked to contribute another $4 million.

    John Lucas, the (TCC) panel's bankruptcy attorney, says New Jersey's share of the settlement alone should be closer to $44 million and with the two Pennsylvania councils should total $58 million.


    The assessments are not divided proportionally according to a state's share of the suits. Northern New Jersey Council has 525 abuse suits, or 42.5% of the state's 1,235 total claims, but is contributing only $3.06 million, or 21.6% of the total assessment for the five councils. 

    So, if I read this right, John Lucas says the NJ & PA councils should be giving over 70% of their total assets?  Will that leave them with 2 years' worth of operating funds?  (I thought that was part of it.)  I would be surprised if most non-profits could survive after giving that much.

    There are many opinions about what percentage of assets should be contributed.  Northern New Jersey Council's proposed contribution is over 30% of their total net assets.  For those who say LCs should give 'til it hurts, I'm willing to bet it's gonna hurt.

    • Upvote 1
  5. 2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

    “Never get involved in a land war in Asia” and “Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.” I couldn’t resist. Btw, where is the Dread Pirate Roberts when you need him? 🤔

    Perhaps the Dread Pirate Roberts is the one to untie the Gordian knot, and since it has been stated the the judge is the person to do the untying, then he would need to be Judge Dredd Pirate Roberts.  😉

    • Haha 1
  6. On 9/14/2021 at 6:28 PM, ThenNow said:

    I have no clue whatsoever where to put this. Maybe it’s here? Maybe it’s not? Maybe nowhere? Maybe it doesn’t matter anymore? I can assure you, there’s no legalese and it relates to this Chapter 11. Specifically, its impact on a victim claimant such as I. So that aside, here’s an update on what this process means to me. I would say it can serve as my start of the year report on, “How I spent my summer vacation,” but I spent two on this mess and lots of months in between. To be exact, 1 year, 6 months and 27 lovely days has BSA Chapter 11. 

    So, given my mental, physical and psychological state over the past 574 days, my trauma therapist insisted we do updated testing to determine if I am still in the land of the living or swinging wide toward vapor. The tests I took are noted below. They are pretty fun. You should try a handful sometime. Long story not quite short, this dealio we’re in the midst of landed me on George Jetson’s treadmill. I am vigorously engaged, but slip sliding in retrograde motion. I’ve moved from the Recovery Phase to the Acute (Emergency) Phase of PTSD. WooHoo! Back to the future all over again. If anyone wonders what this is doing to the victims, now you know with sprinkles on top. Cheers. The End.

    UPPS-Impulsivity scale

    SADS-Social Avoidance and Distress Scale

    PCL-PTSD Checklist

    K10-Kessler Distress Scale

    GAD-Generalized Anxiety Disorder Scale

    FMPS-Frost Multidimensional Perfectionism Scale

    ECR-Experience in Close Relationships Scale

    DUDIT-Drug Use Disorders Identification Test 

    DES-II-Dissociative Experiences Scale

    DERS-Difficulties in Emotion Regulation Scale

    DASS-Depression Anxiety Stress Scale

    MMPI-3- Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory

    SCID-V-Structured Clinical Interview for DSM Disorders

    egads!  I could imagine someone losing a degree of sanity simply from having to complete all of those test and scales and inventories - nevermind being made to think about how this is making you feel or that is making you react.

    For me, this whole bankruptcy process has felt like it's been dragging on and on and on - and I am not a claimant.

    I'm glad that you have a therapist and that your therapist wants to take the time to get a good assessment of how you are doing.  (I'm not so glad to hear that you are in less-than-stellar shape.)

    So, @ThenNow - to you and all the other survivors out there - Keep surviving.


    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 2
  7. I'm pages behind on the ch.11 thread, and I haven't had my coffee yet, so please forgive me if I sound dense.  It sounds like the mods are trying to make a place for the more emotionally-charged topics of discussion and speculations about what may happen (e.g. CO relations) here while leaving ch.11 for the "cold hard facts" of the bankruptcy case.

    So, if it's about:

    -LC assets (stated numbers, dollar amounts, property values)

    -LC contributions (i.e. announcements about they are contributing and how they plan to raise the funds - not our estimations of what they should or might contribute)

    it goes here(?) or can they go in ch.11?


  8. This just in from Patriots' Path Council:

    The case is reaching a critical juncture and it is clear that Patriots’ Path Council will be required to make a significant contribution to the settlement trust. It is likely that this settlement contribution will be a blend of cash and property. Our council has been working diligently for almost two years through special committees and our Executive Board to ensure that we are best positioned to continue serving youth, families and communities in northern and central New Jersey. Because of confidentiality requirements, we cannot at this time provide exact details of how we will fund our settlement contribution, but we promise to do so as soon as plans finalize and confidentiality restrictions are lifted.


  9. (raising hand from the back of the room)

    So, my brain feels like teflon when it comes to some of this...

    What is supposed to be disclosed at the upcoming disclosure hearing and why is it such a Big Deal?

    I have no background in law or financial stuff (like bankruptcy) or insurance.  I'm trying to follow what is going on, but I get so confused.  :( 

    • Upvote 3
  10. This just in from Greater Hudson Valley Council (before bankruptcy it was 2 councils - Hudson Valley and Westchester-Putnam):

    "Greater Hudson Valley Council will contribute $6,367,834.84 to the Victims Trust Fund which will be used to compensate anyone that was victimized in the past. This non-negotiable number reflects the roughly 550+ cases from within our Council, in its various forms, going back to the 1950s. The majority of the cases took place prior to the 1990s. We take our obligation to the victims seriously as even a single case of abuse is one too many.

    To fulfill this commitment, our Council Bankruptcy Taskforce has been working throughout the summer to consider all options available to us. Sadly, it does not appear that we will be able to come up with the necessary funds without selling one of our beloved camp properties."


    (To the Moderators: I posted here rather than Bankruptcy Losses because it does not list the specific camp to be sold and because LC contribution needs to go somewhere... If you feel that contribution amounts belong elsewhere, okay.)

    • Upvote 1
  11. 2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

    What this means is that, when adjusted, the Council was looking at around $5.5-62 million. Insurance would cover some of it, but that's where the numbers are.

    This also assumes that 100% of those claims would be found to be "valid."  It is possible that some claimants don't/won't/can't provide enough details to validate the claim; it is possible that some claimants are, well, lying*; it is possible that some of the proofs of claim will be thrown out because the lawyer's signature was photocopied...

    *As horrible as it is to be an abuse survivor, it is unconscionable to be a False Abuse Victim, i.e. someone who pretends he was abused so he can collect money.  I believe that there are possibly/probably some claims (of the 82,000) that fall into this category; however, I doubt that is true in the vast majority of the cases.

    If a claim is invalidated the third reason I mentioned, that doesn't mean the claimant is not a survivor who endured abuse and PTSD and all other manner of bad things as a result of the abuse.  To be honest, I feel doubly awful for anyone in this boat - going through  everything involved with filing, watching the bankruptcy drag on and on, and finally being told, "Sorry, Bud.  Your lawyer did some unethical stuff and now your claim is being tossed."

  12. 3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    Well, let's take a look. It looks like they can get $3 million by selling their stocks/long-term investments.


    According to BSA data provided to the court, as of March Bay-Lakes had






    Cash & Equivalents




    Land, Buildings, and Equipment




    Long-Term Investments




    Other Assets
















    Other Liabilities












    Unrestricted Net Assets




    Restricted Net Assets








    (Insert long low whistle sound here)  Wow.   I can certainly understand why they would be willing to sell off a fraction of their long-term investments...  That's a lot of money invested. 

    I remember a story of a council taking out a $150,000 loan to help cover "lights on" expenses.  I think asking them to contribute $3 million (regardless of open/closed/gray status or number of claims) would break the bank.

  13. Bay-Lakes doesn't plan to sell any resident camps or use donor-given funds. (so where is the money for their portion of the settlement coming from?)

    The email from Bay-Lakes Council also includes information on 2 zoom meetings being held next week to "share additional details and answer questions you might have."

    Not bad. I mean, they're communicating.  I know some councils play it so close to the vest that it would take a court order requiring this kind of public disclosure before they would share anything with their volunteers (or possibly even with District Executives).

    • Upvote 1
  14. 1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

    Okay, so I read the document, or at least, my eyes ran over the words in the document. 

    So, I will now stand in front of the audience in my top hat and cape, show that nothing is hiding in the cuffs of my sleeves, pick up my magic wand, and attempt to translate...

    As a part of the the [most recently proposed] settlement plan, the BSA will pay the "coalition" (not to be confused with the TCC, which is the official group of abuse claimants) 10 million dollars for... legal fees?  However, the US Trustee (different from the Trustee who will oversee the $ in the settlement fund?) says, and I almost quote, "This is a no-no for various legal reasons."

    If I have that right, why would the BSA propose to do such a thing?  It makes it sound almost like they're trying to engender good feels from the coalition's lawyers so they/their clients will vote for the settlement plan.

    Am I close to right?  I'm just an Average Joe whose eyes cross and then glaze over when faced with legalese. 

  15. Welcome, welcome, welcome!

    There is an old saying (predates girls in ScoutsBSA program):  The boy chooses the Troop.

    I'm very sorry to hear your DE wasn't able to help.  

    My first impulse is to agree with qwazse - use the Pack funds for the benefit of the Pack (B&G, summer camp) and then be on your way.  If the cubs are still part of the Pack, then using the $$ to help those children progress in the Scouting program is appropriate.

    The CO is within their right to dismiss leaders and appoint new ones; however, until the paperwork is filed with the Council, I don't think it counts as "official."  

    At the end of the day, it's like leaving a bad relationship.  If you don't want the other party to have reason to come after you/harass you, you have to leave the couch and the lamps, and the silverware and start over.  It stinks, and it hurts, and it's unfair, and it's hard not to be bitter, but it's also the example you are giving your children. (By following the rules, even when you don't want to, you teach them how to be morally straight.)

    Best of luck to you and the rest of the Pack.  (And be sure to keep us updated.)

    • Upvote 1
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