ThenNow

If indeed bankruptcy is just business, this one is a corrupt enterprise. Where I was ready to step back and take aim at the Settlement Trustee process and hunkered insurance companies when this “deal” was announced, I’m back to feeling disgusted. Regardless the state of the RSA and whether it revives after the judge’s jolt today, this thing is a disgrace. I realize it’s highly complex. I realize there are a strange mix of layers and players. I realize it’s emotional and I chief among all. I also realize the fees keep getting paid like clockwork, save for an objection from the insurers. I have seen more distasteful lawyering and postering and bloviating in these last 16+ months than I had in the previous 31 since admitted to the bar. Shame. Shame. Shame. 

17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

And from an attorney's responsibility perspective, I get it. Each BSA dollar that goes to a victim in a closed state is one less dollar for my client who is in an open state, therefore, BSA shouldn't allow those victims in closed states to get one thin dime. An attorney's supposed to be looking out for the best interests of his/her client and from a pure legal ethics perspective, I'm not surprised that attorneys in an open state like California (the one lawyer I recall in particular was California) are pushing to keep victims from closed states out of this through something like the Gray system.

If 50,000+ victims of CSA at the hands of volunteers and professionals within the BSA are denied a vote and/or get nothing, there will be fallout. One form I predict, and have been since way back, is SoL reform. There will be hell to pay. Another form? States Attorneys General investigations. Yes. I know, I know. Little likelihood of prosecutions. I couldn’t care less. If it goes down that “closed staters” are SoL SOL and utterly denied a voice, I will have a new reason to stay alive. I will fight to ensure both those forms of fallout happen as widely as possible. I have a long memory. I can be strategically patient. I was abused in three states, lived in seven. I have contacts in each.  I know people. I can raise money. I will fight. 

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Interestingly, with the RSA now blown up, the Gray 1-3/Open/Closed is now off the table (for now).

Yes, but hiding a bone I’ve seen before means I know it’s there. Hope springs eternal. Object permanence can be a beautiful (or horrifying) thing. 

24 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

The idea of "onslaught" has to be tempered with recognition that filing a case which is outside a statute of limitations is not only pointless (a hollow threat) but probably legally unethical on the lawyer's part.

I think neither is completely the case. The SoLs are not the impenetrable wall(s) they once were or appeared to be and, for that reason and others, not to file may be completely unwise. If an attorney counsels their client against filing, depending on the state and the fact pattern, that could be unethical. Remember, highly experienced state CSA attorneys graded the "closed" states by Gray 1-3. That means something. 

4 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Why on earth is the Coalition getting paid out for its legal fees now, ahead of everyone else including the victims? How does it rate such special treatment and, as the US Trustee pointed out, what statute authorizes this?

It is very, very much looking like the lawyers for the Coalition are getting a guaranteed payout now ahead of everyone else. The question is why and for what?

Yup. Here, here. I think I mentioned rotting fish up yonder and a bunch of material for a melodrama. Adopting the suggested analogy, I'm calling it, "The Chapter 11 Circus Came to Town." I'll shorten it. That's just the working title.

3 hours ago, MattR said:

I'm hoping this forum helps some of those victims.

I want to compliment the Scouters who’ve been on this thread since I removed my invisibility cloak and have slogged through some challenging conversations. Some bailed out due to frustration and/or anger. We’ve come a long way. Allowing “us” to be heard and substantively contribute means a lot. As you know, no one else in the organization is really hearing us, much less engaging in dialogue from a motive of human understanding alone. They may be listening strategically, but that means little (to me). 

2 hours ago, Life said:

ive been following this forum for awhile now and just now decided to chime in. Seems like a calm before the storm so I wanted to pipe up. 

Welcome. I am truly sorry for what you endured, now this painful saga. As you accurately said, at least now we are not completely alone, bumping around in the dark of our hyper-focused minds and muddling through. Come what may as the circus continues, we finally have a cohort, though we remain anonymous. It is better than we had and there is comfort in it, I believe. 

3 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

4 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

I feel like I am watching a 3 ring circus as all of this unfolds.  

That's a really good analogy.  

By my count, we have to add 6 or so rings to the classic Barnum & Bailey standard. 

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

I feel like I am watching a 3 ring circus as all of this unfolds. 

Is it the one where the elephant gets spooked and runs through the crowd? 

10 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Since the Coalition was deemed a "mediation party" by the court the bar gets lowered on their making the substantial contribution claim.  That said, the US Trustee is doing his job by holding parties to the strictest rules for reimbursement.  Remember though that in many cases the Trustee basically "points things out" and then a party will provide a complete response to satisfy the Court.

Part of the script for my screenplay. A fictional tale, or not. For now, let’s say it is.

How bitter will be the irony IF:

Coalition firms are found to have unethically, improperly and/or fraudulently amassed claims.

They used venture money, aggregators and call centers to do the deed, failing to vet many claims, some of which are valid but assailable because of their poor lawyering. 

Well before all that was discovered and proven - though suspected by insurers - the sheer volume of their client base gave them a mountainous soapbox from which they demanded access to the mediation. Access granted.

Once in, things dragged on and dragged some more. They were feeling pressure to settle because, well, the clock is ticking and the piper always gets paid. 

“Hey! Let’s find a path to compromise. I know we can do it and it’s for the victims, after all,” counseled the Coalition to the mediation parties.

To themselves they whispered, “Yes. We surely must. It’s getting a little hot in here, if you know what I mean.”

“Oh, goodie,” said the BSA and some other parties. Let’s make a deal!” (Did that include the TCC? Only the Shadow knows...)

“So very gracious of of you to make all these concessions!” Exclaims the judge, bolting awake from a 14 month nap. “You are indeed benevolent people seeking the good of all humankind and sexual abuse victims everywhere. I hereby decree you have made a ‘substantial contribution.’ I wave my magic money wand and award you $10M. [Swish and flick! *PING*] 

”Thank you, your honor. Truly. You are most generous and we are humbled. Um. May we be excused for a minute or two?” bows the Coalition. “As it turns out, we need to see a shark about a horse’s head.”

“Very well. I grant you leave,” said she, “but do remember to vote. Early and often.”

To be continued...

I am NOT reporting facts, only playing with the puzzle pieces to create a speculative collage. The pieces are there though. 

Re: Coalition’s $10M gratuity

Thank you, Mr. Buchbinder!

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/8eb26aec-4928-412c-836f-57ec9157c343_5685.pdf

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

esoteric important unimportant things! 

Esoteric Important Unimportant are my middle names. As you know, my mother had it in for me from launch point. 

Random Observation I: I had no clue you guys had this much to say about cell phones in Scouting. I’ve been tempted to say, “Get a room already.”  

Random Observation II: There has been an interesting concurrence of the camp distraction lull and luffing in the case. Harmonic convergence or interstellar alignment I’m thinkin. I have a slight foreboding.

Carry on…

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

1 hour ago, yknot said:

I keep saying that cell phones are the new Swiss army knife -- just a utilitarian item that can be used correctly or incorrectly.

I get it, "why" vs. "why." I'll exit this part of the conversation saying I'm glad I learned what I know live and not from a Youtuber goober. (If you guys have cool videos there, I mean no offense. Low hanging rhyme I couldn't pass up.)

PS - Lied about that “exit, stage left.” (Nod to Snagglepuss.) The videos I WILL watch are any you can direct me to where you’re opening a coke bottle, boring a hole in a stick through which you can thread a leather thong, whittling or opening a can of beans with a phone. I will be mesmerized and watch with rapt attention and awe. iPhone or Android, your preference.  

“I don’t care who you are. That’s funny right there.” Attribution withheld to protect my image. 

23 minutes ago, yknot said:

I keep saying that cell phones are the new Swiss army knife -- just a utilitarian item that can be used correctly or incorrectly.

I get it, "why" vs. "why." I'll exit this part of the conversation saying I'm glad I learned what I know live and not from a Youtuber goober. (If you guys have cool videos there, I mean no offense. Low hanging rhyme I couldn't pass up.)

12 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I often argue our expectations of the scouts should parallel the expectations of the adults.  If no phone charging stations means no adults, I'm not surprised at all that our youth membership is dropping.   ... BUT ... that's another debate that's been had many many times. 

I know why we need phones for safety purposes and adult connection to work and family, but why does a Scout need a phone at camp? I’m glad I couldn’t search the web for lashing or Barred Owl mating calls or reflector oven biscuits or raccoon scat identification or any one of a 1000++ other video tutorials I could now fetch up. For me, as both a Scout and camp staffer, seems it would have been totally disruptive (and even destructive) of the positive things I took away from camping, Summer Camp particularly. No?

3 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

…is at camp! I know I am!

Sure. Thanks. Rub it in why don’t ya! Now that you say that, I was always at camp over the date on which my mother decided it was time to launch me into the great wide world of the unknown, the inexplicable and a place where I was soon forced to eat and sleep and poop according to the dictates of human convention. I always resented that. It was much easier before she went and did that to me. I think I’ll call her and remind her just how rude that was. Be right back...

56 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Has this channel been quiet for almost a full day?

It appears so. Maybe everyone left us here to rot and wither in ignorance and lack of socialization due to some unexpressed desire for a sabbatical. Or, everyone is reading my article very slowly and translating it into multiple language for international distribution. Or, we offended the rest. Or, this all was settled amicably and no one told us. I’ve been vexing about this without explanation, other than my attempts to humor myself. 

On 7/16/2021 at 10:44 AM, ThenNow said:

Mass Tort Attorneys: Judges Want to Know About Your Outside Financing

Here is the entire article, courtesy of a friend at Bloomberg. Worth a read. Makes me crabbier that this judge does not have an eye to the judges overseeing actual mass tort cases, as opposed to the same masquerading as a Chapter 11. Grrrr. 

Law.com, Mass Tort Attorneys_ Judges Want to Know About Your Outside Financing.pdf

4 hours ago, gpurlee said:

Assuming that the BSA survives and that the national UMC relationship is not damaged beyond repair

Isn’t the damage TBD, based upon how far under the bus and irretrievable they become? Are they already out of reach, in terms of getting under the channeling injunction? If they start getting named and teed up to be lit up in the window states with no BSA air cover, it’s kaput, ja? It doesn’t feel to me like BSA is going to reach back and fetch COs at this point. If they did opt for a rescue, what would it entail? My view on all this is overly simplistic, I know.

Last disjointed thought. Though it may be better for some survivors to have open season on COs, I don’t see it as a great benefit to all. I may be missing it. The whole scenario also looks pretty cold hearted and two-faced from my club chair. Let’s see. A Scout is trustworthy. Strike that. Hm. Loyal? Never mind. Start over. A Scout is helpful. Debatable, but I’ll give them that one through and abundance of grace. Friendly, Courteous and Kind? Nah. No gimmes. I’ll let them run the table from there, with the exception of Brave. Definitely not Brave...

25 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Practical: it is going to be hard enough to get an agreement involving BSA plus 250 local councils. Trying to get a global plan (including all the COs) is just not in the cards right now. The attorney for the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils talked about "phases" and that the first phase was focused on BSA and LCs but that now that those were settled (they aren't, but anyway) attention would turn to getting a plan/deal for the COs. As you can imagine, and what I was told by my Council with respect to the Catholic diocese in my area, the COs are not buying it.

Sorry. I spoke too fast. Yes. That was my multi-headed beast point and confirms my sense of the why. It seemed clearest and most logical to me and the legal makes perfect sense. Thanks.

37 minutes ago, gpurlee said:

There are multiple points of contention between the chartered organizations and the BSA at the present time. Perhaps the most contentious one is a court filing a few months ago as part of the restructuring plan. It included a section that discussed insurance and chartered organizations. It is important to understand that for decades chartered organizations were told that "the BSA has your back" and would provide adequate insurance.

It came as a shock to the CO's to discover that the BSA was essentially stating there was no insurance coverage for past claims.  Three reasons were stated and varied according to the specific year. (1) The CO's were not listed as an additional insured, (2) the insurance coverage for a specific year had reached its cap and was exhausted or (3) there was insurance but the CO was responsible for "very high deductibles."

You can imagine that faced with the prospect of thousands of potential lawsuits, this was not well received news for the CO's.

So now, many of the CO's are joining in the refrain of "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ..."

Thanks. I apologize that my smart alek question made it less than clear. My real question is, knowing how critical the CO relationship is, why the “get off the bus, Gus”? That was even better.

Oops. I just to referred myself, by extension, as a beast. Being an attorney, please don’t censor my comment. I did not intend to revive the now expired and verboten.  

1 hour ago, gpurlee said:

If the BSA loses the support of the chartering organizations, it is difficult to see how it can successfully move past the impacts of the bankruptcy and the pandemic.

Okay. No surprise. Several of you saw this percolating and said as much. I only have old school CO points of reference, now adding those you guys have given me. Other than being engaged in a cage match with a multi-headed beast, is there any good explanation for this redux of “Throw Mama from the Train,” sans Danny and Billy with COs playing the mothers? (It’s strained, I know, but I had to get that film title in somehow!)

1 minute ago, MYCVAStory said:

Let's trade.  I'm headed to a cardiologist next week after an "abnormality" turned up.  I'm looking forward to when he asks "Have you been under any stress lately?"  "Well, do you have a few hours so I can summarize it?!"  Enjoy, safe travels, and happy hunting!

Prayers headed your way, brother!