ThenNow
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Posts posted by ThenNow
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12 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
It will be ugly for them if anything goes sideways.
Um, didn't that sorta just happen?
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36 minutes ago, RandomScouter said:
The case is reaching a critical juncture and it is clear that Patriots’ Path Council will be required to make a significant contribution to the settlement trust. It is likely that this settlement contribution will be a blend of cash and property. Our council has been working diligently for almost two years through special committees and our Executive Board to ensure that we are best positioned to continue serving youth, families and communities in northern and central New Jersey. Because of confidentiality requirements, we cannot at this time provide exact details of how we will fund our settlement contribution, but we promise to do so as soon as plans finalize and confidentiality restrictions are lifted.
Obviously, some LCs saw the ruling in the best possible light pointing to with a reasonably near-term resolution built on the lame duck RSA. Who's communicating that? Also, what's this continuing claim of a confidentiality muzzle when we all know it's been lifted? Inquiring minds want to know...
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42 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
I saw a lot of people over inflating the judges decision and how this was the beginning of the end, etc. And many reporters lost the nuance.
if anything that RSA decision was one step forward two steps back.
Have there been any murmurings from AIS or the Coalition of Disappointed Attorneys for Justifiable Bribery?
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This is an interview with Kathryn Robb, Exec Director of CHILDUSA Advocacy. Aired in February, but worth the five minutes.
https://www.yourerie.com/on-our-air/newsmaker/newsmaker-kathryn-robb/
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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:
The August 25 hearing is now officially cancelled.
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2021/08/23/628273.htm
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Just now, SiouxRanger said:
Well, then there should be a mosaic of treatment in the Catholic Church.
Okay. I guess it's time to pull out my Hardon's "Modern Catholic Dictionary." I'm rusty, to the chagrin of my Franciscan, Jesuit and Sisters of St. Agnes teachers.
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13 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:
Parishes answer to Dioceses, Dioceses to Archdioceses, and they answer to ? Papal Nuncio?
"Answer to," but that doesn't seem to in any way "draw up" the liability. I believe it stops and rests with each Diocese. That's why they are the ones being sued and moving into their own 11s. No?
Maybe this strand in the thread is about who gets to open the mail. Call me when it's over.
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2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
The August 25 hearing is now officially cancelled.
Dang it. That impacts my revenue trickle. Now, I have to cancel the food truck and outdoor big screen. I've been making some serious coin airing these. Korean BBQ on Wheels will be upset, as will the neighbors. Tanc is a celebrity. We place bets on when his pen will burst as he chews on it.
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5 minutes ago, David CO said:
BSA is now a left-wing organization.
THAT explains everything! BSA is circling the drain because it lost a wing. Man. I wish I had thought of that...
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10 hours ago, yknot said:
What happens to the BSA restructuring plan if it starts to become clear in the next month that 700,000 scouts in 2021 will go far south of that in 2022? I think that's what you are alluding to?
Counsel for the Methodist and Catholic Ad Hoc Committees made this point very forcefully. He was nearly incredulous that BSA would be putting out any presumptive numbers for a business model, while simultaneously leaving the COs out of the current RSA. In effect, he asked, “Have you even considered how your business plan pencils if we go away? Have you lost your mind, as well as your calculator? You need us and, well, we really don’t ‘need’ you if it comes right down to it.”
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3 minutes ago, yknot said:
Let's hope you are right. All I know from a business persepctive is that insurance is more of a problem and an expense every year no matter what your safety record or training credentials. You might be able to get insurance but what if it requires doubling fees. Fewer scouts means fewer paying. I think a lot also will depend on the status and importance of the CO relationship when this is done. BSA may be able to get insurance, but COs may not care.
This one of area of the insurance matters my wife commented on. From her view, there may very well be a high threshold of premiums at least until they have a “wait and see what happens” period. She was dubious about it being easier *poof* after discharge.
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29 minutes ago, David CO said:
I don't know. The juvenile justice system is a mystery. I was asked to write out a statement. Then I never heard anything about it after that. The whole process is very secret.
Sorry. My cousin was a PD representing almost exclusively juveniles and it sure seems to be, as she described it. Of course, those made it into the judicial system. She’s now a judge magistrate and sees many of her “kids” cycle back. Not encouraging.
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5 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
Moreover, ALL abuse take took place prior to February 2020 is covered in the bankruptcy (it is why the Future Claims Representative exists).
Though I’m frequently wrong, but never in doubt, I believe it was suggested to me by an insider that BSA’s goal is to loop in all claims that arose/arise prior to discharge. As it was relayed, that was part of discussions. I haven’t seen such a provision. Love to receive a confirmation or slap down.
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1 hour ago, David CO said:
I was physically assaulted by a student, leaving me with a very painful permanent disability. I haven't had a pain free day in the last 30 years. It forced me to quit coaching (which I loved). I also had to step down as Scoutmaster of the troop I founded.
Since I was the only teacher in the school for my subject, I had to teach that kid for a semester. I hated it. The kid never raised his hand or spoke to me. I never spoke to him. At the end of the semester, I gave him a fair grade. Is that professional enough for you?
I’m truly sorry for that and what you lost, physically and things dear to your heart. That’s awful. What was the reporting and disciplinary process?
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4 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
If the rapist in your class had victimized someone in your family or someone you were close to how courteous or professional would you be?
Yes. My point in the hypothetical was not to request a generalization, rather a specific response to a senario. You know the guy. He was in you Unit or LC or at a camp you attended or staffed. Now, you know some horrible stuff you and everyone in your LC Cone of Silence Brigade believes is true. And, he’s beyond the reach of the law. Does that change your feeling or reaction? Some guys who are reading those POCs will confront that exact scenario.
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50 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
However, in a good number of states due to mandatory reporting statutes plus BSA's YPT rules, the scouter who finds out about the abuse does not have a choice about whether or not they report to law enforcement. T
A bunch of us are old guys and our abusers are dead or lost in life’s shuffle. This doesn’t apply and needs to be factored in when you respond to his comments.
52 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:Moreover, and this is also another completely realistic possibility, is that the confidential claim information wasn't used directly at all. By that I mean the following (and I've seen this in criminal cases before).
Jane Smith accuses John Doe of a having a gun illegally and shows a picture of John Doe holding it. A crime? Sure. So that gives enough reasonable suspicion to start an investigation. Turns out John Doe DID have a gun and he had a permit for it, but police as part of that investigation observe John Doe making drug deals. John Doe is arrested and charged with possession with intent to distribute.
In other words, the proof of claim may only have been used to the extent necessary to get police to start to take an active interest in this person and that led not to a child abuse or child sexual abuse charge but possession of child porn.
Right. That’s why I, anyway, have moved on to the substance of our reaction and am not trying to analyze that case. And, as I said, I aim to find out what happened.
51 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:Someone in BSA or the LC got this information and relayed it to law enforcement (or did so through lawyers).
We have I believe NO idea if law enforcement then contacted the victim.
Yes, as I said before.
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1 hour ago, MattR said:
why not send it to a local news source?
Tried that. They wouldn’t touch it without something “official.” Too much exposure if it turns out to be at all iffy or fabricated. Dandy defamation law suit in the making.
1 hour ago, MattR said:I understand that the victims might be hesitant, but if not, maybe CSA needs it's own #metoo movement?
It’s very different when you initiate, as I did, however futile. As I said earlier, totally different when you’re in an assumed “confidential”situation like this and someone else launches it. I’m not sure how that can/could be handled. I agree with Tim Kosnoff that someone needs to step in and clarify for the sake of all victim claimants. I think its importance can’t be overstated, at least from my crappy antique Windsor chair.
Hm. Not sure of the latter. I think #metoo has become extremely problematic. Frankly, I’ve viewed it rise and have commented to many in my circle that the “celebritization” (I that new non-word) of sexual abuse, depression, PTSD has done tons of damage. I would love to delve further into that topic, including how it could be done differently.
1 hour ago, MattR said:How much of the pain comes from not being able to confront it? My guess is the shame and helplessness that victims of regular sexual abuse have would also apply to CSA? Isn't the shame and helplessness the source of power the men had over all the children they abused? Why not take that away from them?
In order:
1) The life impact pain, which is enormous, often is rampaging when before the confrontation. For me, the greatest emotional/psychological cratering came after it revealed itself when my dad died and my boys asked to join Scouting. I utterly fell apart.
2) For sure and, for boys abused by men, multiply by some X factor, not sure what it is. You’ve heard lots of this here.
3) Yes, in part, but for me not primarily. I was locked up and down, coming to dissociate and act normal in all other contexts, even immediately after. Hero worship, the lure of feeling “special” and getting more attention can be huge during extended periods of abuse.
3) You mean in the form of “prosecution” by public humiliation? If so, doing the same to my abuser isn’t going to put mine to rest. It will feel like a measure of justice, but that won’t heal it. That’s going to go on for a long time. Remember, there is potentially an unspeakable shame in admitting all this publicly. That’s a large part of the reaction you’re seeing from several of us.
Hope that helps. Sorry for any typos. Moving fast today.
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35 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
I wish that my serial down voter had the wisdom to explain his down votes.
Badge of honor, my friend. Badge of honor.
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9 hours ago, NealOnWheels said:
like you, I would want to avoid all interaction with him.
My avoidance of him, that time, was in deference to my family and the realization that harming him would most likely land me in prison. Another time, I was in my home town again and met some high school “friends” (only two really qualify) at a dive bar. I moved away when I was 18 so had been gone for 20+ years. I was not drinking at the time. When I walked in and looked over to the bar, there sat two of my ASMs. We recognized each other immediately. I said, “Hey,” politely riding an immediate adrenaline surge, on high alert. The main ASM, who I liked very much but have allowed myself to admit had to have been complicit in nearly everything, looked at me and said, “__________” (SM) will be here in a few minutes.” I blurted out, “Good. Tell him I’m looking for him.” He never showed. I assume they called him. For what’s it’s worth, a was a late bloomer and smaller kid up until junior/senior year of high school. When I was in town for that particular reunion some of the fat and out of shapes jocks joked I should be voted, “Most likely to have taken steroids.” I didn’t look like a pretty young boy any more.
It’s hard to explain what’s like knowing “that person” is skulking around on the planet, living their life and going on their merry way. I realize, he may have been and may be a tortured individual. I never saw it. Only slightly more than 10 years my senior, I have watched from a distance as he enjoys his retirement, sees the grandkids, fishes, hangs out with the boys, fishes and hunts and (wait for it) organizes his photos from Scouting to selectively post on his Fb page. Yours truly is featured prominently at about age 13. I’m not kidding. His life appears to have been far, far, far more stable and normal than mine.
So you don’t think me some sort of masochist, I only looked at his Fb in preparation for my POC and a few times previous when writing about my life and experience.
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9 hours ago, johnsch322 said:
I just wanted to make sure you didn’t drive some piss ant little truck like a Chevy Luv.
For the record, this is what elicited my laughing man emoji.
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6 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:
I see the situation. I still think action needs to be taken. SoL doesn't matter for being kicked out of Scouting.
I’m asking you guys personally. He’s not in Scouting anymore. He’s untouchable under the law…
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11 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
What kind of truck?
You messin’ with me?
Assuming not, ‘85 F-150. Beautiful dark blue and white. It was my dad’s. I bought it from my mom when he died.
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11 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:
I assumed they would all be on the IVF, but that is a big assumption. This process may have been the first time the victim has spoken out.
Very, very few were already reported or listed, for that very reason.
I got a Saturday night hypothetical for youz guys. You’re a member of the LC Cone of Silence Brigade. You’re tasked with going through your share of a couple hundred Proofs of Claim. In your reading, you discover terrible things, credibly alleged, about a guy you go to church with or see at the bar or is a part of your hunting club. He abused more than one boy, you find. The SoL had run on all the claims. What do you do? How do you feel? How do you find yourself around him? Hm?
I saw my abuser in my hometown once when I was a grown a** man. I walked into a coffee shop, got in line, and there he was a few people in front of me. I froze between pissing myself and going to my truck to get the bat I kept behind the seat. I talked myself into just waiting for him to leave and resisted the temptation to do what I wanted to do.
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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:
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Wouldn’t you know. “Pride cometh before the fall.” I typed a comma instead of a period. D-Oh!
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
in Issues & Politics
Posted
Do any of the Catholic experts have a list of the members of Catholic Mutual?