Cambridgeskip

I am British and I too struggle with this. I am a devout republican (in the British sense, which generally but not exclusively tends to mean liberal/left politics) and want an elected head of state.

At a guess though I'd say it boils down to a number of things.

Firstly comfort. It's what we are used to. The monarch never causes us any aggrevation because she is strictly non political and is not allowed to express an opinion on pretty much anything.

Pomp and ceremony. The fact is that the population does like a good old fashioned parade and the monarch is kind of tied in with all of that. Republican though I am my work regularly takes me to Westminster and seeing the Household Cavalry on parade on Whitehall is frankly awesome (incidentally, and many non Brits often don't realise this, they are real soldiers, Household Cavalry are a light tank regiment).

Our one experiment with republicanism in the 17th century was a bit of a disaster with Oliver Cromwell turning out to be just as unpleasant as some of the absolute and absoluteish monarchs who preceded him.

Other than that I don't really get it either!

Twocubdad - It's ok, Brits are also very difficult to offend (except the Scots. They get offended by pretty much everything)

I am very proud of the lad. There is a big emphasis at the moment in UK scouting on getting scouts to engage in politics. TSA are running events at the conferences of all 3 of the main parties with the opportunity to grill politicians and in addition I got to take 3 of mine to a reception at the Houses of Parliament last month where they got to meet and question politicians from all 3 parties. These events are becoming increasingly popular and are a lot of fun.

Two things on mobiles. First they are here and not going to go away. Second, if scouting is about anything it's about preparing kids for the real world, so why not emrbace them?

My troop has a code of conduct drawn up by the PLs. One rule says "phones - pocket and lock it"

Basically scouts are welcome to bring phones to scouts and camps but they stay out of site and don't get used ay inappropriate moments. They get one warning and then they are conifscated.

In the real world I switch mine off during meetings at work, when out for dinner with Mrs Cambridgeskip, in church and all manner of other occassions. I think we have a good opportunity at scouts to train kids in that kind of etiquette. A simple ban does nothing to instill that.

And yes, my scouts do post the cool stuff on facebook and twitter. They know instinctively what will sell to their friends. They do all my recruiting for me by word of mouth and facebook! It's not just about pictures of white water caneoing etc. It's also the more intagible moments that they recognise better than we do as adults, photos of late night bonding (yes when lights should be out) in their tents. Kids know what sells, let them do it!

I discovered earlier this week that one of my former cubs from my group this side of the pond is now working for the Obama election campaign.

Depending on your affiliation and the result in November feel free to thank me or throw rotten fruit at me for my gift to your political system.

*puts on helmet and flack jacket*

Just a small aside, almost the opposite to this problem, but still a parent issue. And I swear this is a true story.

May 2004 when I was a cub leader we were on camp at Gilwell. It was a hot day. All the cubs were told straight after breakfast to make sure that they put on hats and slapped on sun screen.

Leaders kept an eye to check that they did it. One cub was going near the sun screen. I cornered him and told him to get on with it, he refused saying he was alergic to it. This sounded odd as I had checked all the permission forms and no one had any allergies that I had noticed. So I pulled out his form and checked, sure enough, under allergies or medical complaints his mum had written "none". I showed it to him and he said no really I'm allergic.

I asked if he had any with him, he said "yes" and showed it to me in his kit bag. Who packed your bag I asked? "My mum" he said (he was only 8 years old remember!).

So I asked him "let me get this straight, your mum has put in writing you have no allergies, she put the stuff in your bag and you expect me to believe that you are allergic to the stuff?"

"Honestly, he said, I get a rash and my skin starts flaking off" and started getting really quite distressed.

So I phoned mum to check before I began chasing him round with the stuff. And yes, mum, the woman that had packed his bag and signed that he had no allergies confirmed "Oh yeah, it brings him out in a terrible rash and his skin starts peeling off I packed it as it was on the kit list you sent out".

I was left utterly speachless.

I hadn't realised that the USA had gone just as paranoid about knives as we have in the UK.

Knife law here is absurdly restrictive.

But here's the deal. If I really wanted to stab someone I could walk into the nearest pub or off license, buy a glass bottle of beer, carry it round perfectly legally before smashing it and using it as a really nasty weapon.

Most knife law is passed on an absurd knee basis.

@cubtrails Thank you! There's more where they came from. Someone gave us thousands of old slides that over time we are trying to get scanned and uploaded, those on line are just a few we've done so far.

Yup, it's fear. Too many people are completely unable to comprehend the real risks on life to wrap their children in cotton wool. The fact is the most likely cause, far and away more than anything else, of death among children in the western world is being hit by a car. Hence the most important thing you can do for your child is teach them to cross the road safely. Yet compare the coverage in the media and the hysteria from parents about peadophiles compared to road safety which gets minimal attention.

If you've not read it this is well worth a read http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Risk.html?id=56DwVD4vE3UC

I don't know what the stats are like your side of the pond but in the UK I believe a child is 3 times more likely to be killed by lightening than be murdered by an adult they don't know.

I've carried on following this thread with interest since my attempt at war and peace and I think Shortridge has nailed it, you have to look at what the scouts want and sell it to them. You have to do both and it's the scouts themselves that matter more than the parents.

Kids these days have options, far more than they did 50 years ago. Last year was our group centenary and we had an old boys day. (Some wonderful old photos provided by them here https://picasaweb.google.com/102300161421707243528/ReunionOldPhotos# Talking to them it was clear that when they were 12 being a scout was just about all that was available to them. These days though, within half a mile of our HQ are 2 swimming pools, 1 skate park, 2 martial arts clubs, army cadets, sea cadets, 3 rowing clubs and that is just what I am aware of. I have no doubt many parts of the USA are the same.

If you want bums on seats you have to a show they want to see and make sure they know they want to see it and its better than the one up the road. The promise and law is NOT why kids sign up to be scouts they sign up for fun and adventure

My side of the Atlantic the British Heart Foundation is plugging the continuous compressions route. The reason being mostly that a lot of men in particular are out off trying anything by the thought of giving the breaths hence BHF reckon that something is better than nothing.

There is also the point that doing the breaths wrong can result in the diaphragm being popped out the wrong way which unless you are already on the operating table is basically instant death. But the odds of actually doing that are miniscule.

Over all though it is better to do the compressions and breaths at a rate of 30:2 (although with a child you start with the breaths and with an adult start with the compressions)

Thought I'd chime in as the point about a Chief Scout as per the UK was mentioned.....

The fact is that BSA is exactly where the UK Scout Association was back in the late 90's. We had a massive problem with falling membership and needed to turn it around. I don't know if the problems you have are exactly the same as ours were but what I can tell you is that the solutions to it ran to something far more fundamental than just appointing a chief scout. It was part of it but not all of it.

So what did we do?

Before I get started, a massive caveat. This is NOT some liberal Brit trying to lecture Americans on how I think it should be done. What follows is simply to demonstrate how wide ranging and fundamental some of our changes had to be to deal with our problems and that you too may have to change a lot and that there is not one single easy solution.

The first problem faced was losing scouts at around aged 14 when at the time the scout age range was 10.5-15.5. The second was losing Venture scouts at age 18 when Venture Scouting went from 15.5-21. And both were caused by different variations on the same theme. The theme was that youth culture had fundamentally changed since the age ranges had last changed in the 1960s and the scouting had failed to keep up with it.

First with scouts, this age range completely failed to reflect the natural peer groups of teenagers. In the 1960s most kids left school at 16 hence 15 year olds were more likely to hang around with those younger than them. By the 1990s most stayed at school to 18 rather than go straight out to work and 14 and 15 year olds were tending to hang around with those older than themselves. Scouts simply didn't appeal.

With Venture scouts it was similar. In 1960s very people went to university. By the 1990s nearly half the population were now doing so at age 18 so venture scouting was losing its older members. Fact was we were flogging a dead horse.

Basic solution was change the age ranges. scouts now runs to 14 and we now have Explorers for 14-18. Yes this has meant changes to the programme. There are limits to what you can ask of a 14 year old PL. They need more help, but it can still be done. Last weekend I had a patrol camp out, without leaders, lead by a 14 year old girl. It's tough getting them there. There are things we have gained and I'll come back to that further down.

Image, image, image. Scouting was not cool, in any way. Our image was old fashioned and easily mocked. I was a teenager at the time, I remember it well. This has been dealt with to a certain extent but there is a long way to go. This was dealt with partly by appointing a chief scout "figure head" (the first one was actually children;s tv presenter Peter Duncan, Bear Grylls took over from him). Second national HQ set up a full time professional PR and Coms team. They give a constant drip feed of good news stories to the press. They carefully manage the image presented. They try to ensure, whenever possible, that those speaking to the media are aged under 25. That is the official line. What is never written down but is quite obvious is that they are all quite good looking as well. It's a pretty cynical thing to do but it's a cynical world in which we live. They also changed the uniform. Not radically but they got rid of the hated berets and the terrible trousers. The brown nylon things are now replaced with dark blue combats. The whole centenary helped as well. The jamboree was very well run and presented and we got a bucket load of good news about it.

Lack of leaders. We did have a falling and ageing leader population. Solutions were multiple. First of all the image problems dealt with as above. Second creation of the "Young Leader" programme. From age 14 Explorer Scouts can chose to become effectively an apprentice leader with Beavers, Cubs, or Scouts. And it works! Many go on to sign up as proper leaders at aged 18. Secondly was creation of "Scout Network" for 18-25s. While this is theoretically a training section what it was created for was a social club for younger leaders. I remember being a 19 year old leader at a group where the next youngest leader was aged 40. It was socially quite isolating. I was lucky in that at university there was a Scout and Guide Club but a scout network would have been better (Network was actually modeled on the uni scout and guide club models)

Programme. This needed changes. Fundamentally it hasn't changed. Scouting is still about personal development through being outdoors. But the fact is that many kids didn't want the route of simply being turned into a PL to lead a green field camp or a hike in the woods. That element is still there. The patrol method is still there and still works very well. But along side that is the method of quite simply getting kids to do more fun stuff. Caneoing, sailing, climbing etc. Partly this was caused by the change in age ranges. Let me be clear. This was controversial. People said it would wreck scouting. But it didn't. We are retaining our 14 year olds and we are growing at every age group.

Is the girls, God and gays thing damaging BSA?

Hard for me to say as I don't speak the great American public. But I don't think it helps. I think BSA makes a rod for its own back with the whole CO way of being organised. If you scrapped that system you would be far more free to make your own rules. You know my view on the gay issue, I won't rehash what I've said on other threads. Suffice to say we have some fantastic gay leaders and some fantastic girl scouts.

Finally, UK SA has just released this video trying to appeal to inner city and kids and their parents. It deliberately avoids using the scout brand too overtly (although it is there). What do you think of it?

Jonathan, my apologies for misunderstanding!

My troop have been developing links with the Anne Frank Trust here in the UK to act as peer educators and we are going to try and tie that project in with this.

I think that's a little dismissive of you Jonathan. BP himself was passionate about world peace and his words following the First World War are incredibly inspiring. This scheme comes from WOSM

http://www.scout.org/information_events/events/joti/2011/theme_1/mensajeros_de_la_paz

Personally I would like to see far more of this sort of thing.

I agree with most of what's been said above. I've seen this film before and the only way to deal with it is the "straight bat"* approach.

It is at times like this that "youth led" may have to go out the window. The adults take charge and that means putting toxic scout in his place. And that doesn't mean getting into an argument with him. In fact I would avoid Qwasze's approach altogether. An argument with you is exactly what he will want. When he is caught acting like this he is dragged before the troop leaders, told his behaviour is unacceptable, second time parents are informed and he is sent home. No ifs, no buts. Everything done in a cool headed and calculated manner, just like he does!

Tried to find it on you tube but couldn't find it. I'm thinking of the scene from Top Gun when Maverik and Goose get a dressing down for buzzing the tower. "The rules of top gun are not flexible and neither am I. You will obey them or you are history".

Do BSA have a different verison of the scout promise for non US nationals? In the UK non UK nationals can change the "to God and the Queen" to "God and the country in which I am now lving". This is quite useful for my troop as I currently 8 different nationalities present (including the girl born in Denmark to Italian and Argentine parents, moved to Brazil when she was 1 and moved to the UK when she was 7!).

My favourite is one you need the right kind of tent for, it only works if you have a nylon one with the inner going up first with the fly going over the top.

If you are quiet it is possible to unpeg and detach the fly sheet while someone is asleep before turning it through 90 or 180 degrees so that the doors of the inner and fly no longer line up. Truly hysterical watching the occupants trying to get out! (best not to pull this one on anyone inexperienced in case they get a bit panicked on trying to get out!)

Our troop also has Norman the Gnome. No one, not even me, knows where he comes from. But he appears outside the tent with the worst reputation for sleeping in. I have my suspicions about who Norman belongs to but have never quite figured it out for sure. No one will admit to it. Seriously.

Other nice ones are to knit little woolly hats for tent pegs and hoisting of lost property up the flag pole (particularly any belonging to a leader)

It's only when you go to a proper international jamboree that you begin to appreciate the diversity but also unity of scouting across the world. I took a group from my district to Eurojam in the UK in 2005. There were about 15,000 scouts from 68 different countries. The sub camps were arranged so that no two units from the same country were camped next to each other. On one side of us were Italians and the other side of them an Irish unit. The other side of us were Polish with Israeli the other side of them. Across the walk way from us were Dutch, Swiss, Portuguese and Ugandan units. Elsewhere on our sub camp were French, Australian, Mexican, Norwegian and more other nationalities than I can ever remember. And there were 7 other sub camps!

Communication was not always easy. Some times it meant gestures and sign language, other nations shamed us with their levels of English compared to our Hungarian or Spanish or German. But it's impossible to come away from something like that without feeling humbled or without your mind and perspectives being broadened. The Polish unit next to us spoke virtually no English but I can never forget the beautiful guitar playing that used to drift over from their camp in the evening. The Italians next to us gave us a real less on in cooking. Amazing people!

If you ever get to go to a world or world region jamboree then drop everything and go

A couple of years ago I took a group of scouts the shot hop across the North Sea to Amsterdam. We had arranged to stay in the HQ of a scout troop there. We had a map of how to get there and pictures of what the building looked like and had been told that when we arrived a group of cub scouts would be in there but were expecting us.

So we turned up, followed the map, found a building that looked exactly like what we were looking for with some cubs in, looks good to us. I went in and introduced myself to the leader who spoke next to no English. This should have been the first clue as we had been told that the leader there would speak English. After some pointing and attempts to explain I told the scouts to unpack their kit, make their packed lunches and be ready to move out again in half an hour. Dutch leader looks utterly confused and is next spotted outside on his phone clearly a bit agitated.

10 minutes later someone comes cycling up to the building and explains all! It seems that there are two scout groups in the area, both with identical buildings but just 100 meters apart in the same park! I can only imagine what was going through the head of the poor cub leader who suddenly had a bunch of scouts not speaking his language rocking up at his and start to unpack sleeping bags etc.

Was a fantastic trip though! At the time we live blogged it, the blog is still up here.... http://12thcambridge.wordpress.com/

Other side of the Atlantic but I suspect issues are the same.

For us it varies from trip to trip and what effects it is very varied.

If it clashes with a school trip somewhere parents tend to side with the school and send them on that. Not much you can do about that.

Some times it's just not popular. This summer we have a white water caneoing trip. Very popular and we have about 80% turnout and a caving trip which only a small number want to do with only a 20% turnout.

It can clash with sport fixtures, or family holidays or all kinds of things.

I like to try and get dates of school events well in advance if I can to try and plan our trips around them.

Just thought I'd throw this out there.......

http://www.justgiving.com/12th-cambridge-scouts-Sun-run-2012

It's our annual charity extravaganza in aid of our local homeless shelter, feel free to circulate the link among all and sundry. All major credit cards accepted

Previous years have seen us do this for an orphanage in Sierra Leone

http://www.justgiving.com/12thCambridge-sunrun-2011

And a children's hospice just outside Cambridge

http://www.justgiving.com/12thCambridge-Sunrun-2010

Bevah

A couple of things here....

First while the "official" view of those religions you site is to consider homosexuality a "sin" the reality is that within all of those religions there is a significant and growing liberal wing who disagree with that view. This is particularly so within the Anglican communion where there is a growing and I believe an almost inevitable threat of a split in the church over the issue.

Second I don't think it is fare to compare the issue to that of slavery. Yes, once upon a time slavery was legal. But we are talking about 2012. Can you find me a single person in the USA or the Western world that honestly believes that slavery is right on any level? I doubt it.

If it really is the case that the majority of religious organisations would still not accept gay leaders then why not give them the choice to demonstrate that by giving CO's the choice? And let those CO's, who I suspect in the USA will be a significant minority, the right to be different? If parents really don't like it they will vote with their feet. If they are happy with it they won't.

Looking in from the outside BSA's current policy on this makes no sense at all.

I wouldn't read too much into this. UK HQ have denied it

http://www.scouts.org.uk/noticeboard/440/no-plans-to-change-scout-promise

This is mainly just the NSS trying to kick up a bit of trouble. I am a republican (in the UK sense!) but have no problem with an oath to the Queen as under our constitution any duty to the Queen is a promise made to the population as a whole.

Tampa

The more I hear about DC the more interesting it sounds. All we really see of it in the media here is politics based whihc doesn't really turn anyone onto tourism!

Bath, Winchester and Cambridge (I am biased!, And PM me if you want a tour guide!) are great days out and well worth going. Portsmouth though..... to be honest if you are here a short time there are much nicer places to go. The historic dock yard is interesting, particularly if you are into naval history (fun fact, HMS Victory, despite being hundreds of years old and in dry dock there is still officially a commissioned ship in the Royal Navy!) but the town itself is not all that great. In places a bit run down and being a forces town can be a bit rough in the evening. If you want to head for the south coast then Brighton has a lot to offer. Lots of history, lovely beaches, very pretty old town. If you are into sport then there is horse racing there and the local football team have some of the noisiest fans in the country and are great fun!

Wow! Thank you for that very quick response, lots of ideas there. I don't think I can reply to all of you but to answer a few general points.....

Yes, I am thankfully aware of how vast and diverse a country the USA is. So no one can say they have been to one city or state or even half a dozen and say they have "seen" America. I remember at primary school having a student teacher from the USA who was from Indiana explaining that Indiana was just one of 50 states, and not even one of the bigger ones and it had approximately the same area as England.

In terms of what we'd like I think a bit of history would definitely be good. As Eamon suggested USA history isn't really covered much in UK schools. At age 13 you normally cover, in depth, the discovery and early settlement but then you don't really come back to it until you cover the great depression when you are about 15 and then return to it covering the Cold War and Vietnam. So Boston or DC may be the way forward!

Eagledad - thank you for your kind offer, if we ever make it to Oaklahoma I shall drop you a line.

I think we are also looking for somewhere not too hectic. It's been a busy year and we are in need of a proper holiday, so somewhere with a relatively slow pace of life would be nice. And living in Cambridge we are of course big cyclists so anywhere we can easily get round by bike would be great! We'd also like to see a bit of the coast.

Tampa - we did ponder Poland and or Ukraine however in June they are hosting the European football (soccer, nothing involving shoulder pads or egg shaped balls!) championships and hotel prices and plane tickets are very expensive for that month. And while a holiday spent watching football every day may appeal to me I'm not sure it would be Mrs Skip's preferred holiday! (She's not anti football and she regularly comes to Wembley with me for England home games, just not her idea of a holiday!)

Food is a big thing for us, trying something a bit different. Not necessarily a smart restaurant, but somewhere where we can try something really different. One of our best ever holidays found us in Barcelona and eating things from the massive indoor food market there was an experience I will always remember. It is a wonderful city, very unhurried, obsessed with food, right on the coast, loved it!

As I said in the first post though, we have a week to ourselves and could equally end up in Russia or Sweden but USA is definately on the table still.

And once again thanks for the pointers, feel free to keep them coming!

Forgive the typo in the title, should have been "in" not "is".

Sorry.