CynicalScouter

That's why a LOT of COs stopped being COs and converted to a rental-agreement-only system. The entire Diocese of Dallas, for example, threw the BSA out and would only agree to room-rental agreements.

I read it the same way When I read the National Charter and Bylaws: the Council Charters are subject to review by National. National reserves the right to revoke at will. When I read the Rules and Regulations: Council or Unit Assets Upon Dissolution I think this happy and polite fiction that the Councils are that separated from National is just that, a polite fiction that is about to get squashed. The Councils may have a high amount of autonomy, but that isn't going to cut it. Like I said, I've moved from the "BSA National will survive" camp to "They are done, let's see if the councils can form some kind of confederation as some WOSM members in Europe do."

The average payout is looking at $6000 per victim. At $150 a session, that's 40 sessions. Not even 1 year worth of weekly therapy. So, not really no.

Right, literally the billion dollar question. If the court (which to my knowledge has not) rules the Councils are in fact subsidiaries or franchises or what-have-you then ALL those assets get tossed onto the table. If they are treated as "interested parties" (as they currently are) then they get to put in their $300 million and walk away safe.

Yeah, the USA Today coverage is, well, brutal. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/03/01/boy-scouts-bankruptcy-reorganization-plan-woefully-inadequate/6872981002/ And much of the focus is on the idea that Councils have the biggest piggy bank and are "subsidiaries" of National who need to be forced to give up those properties/assets. So far, I've said that I thought the end state was going to be a crippled, hollow, BSA with no assets (or not much, BSA is looking to keep $75 million PLUS all the "restricted assets" worth $667 million). However, now that I've seen their best offer, I really do not think BSA survives this. I know this is where the negotiation starts and the judge gets ahold of the issue, but I think liquidation just became the more likely outcome.

Documents: DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AMENDED CHAPTER 11 PLAN Kosnoff's already weighed in. Still demanding liquidation.

What you see is what National put out in January 2021 the December 2020 numbers. They are thus "current". You can also see what the numbers were for the 2 prior years (2018 and 2019)

Pure anecdote so take this with a ton of salt. I've stayed in touch with my old pack. Lost 30% of scouts at recharter BUT all said "we'll be back when the pandemic is over". So, yeah, still bad if 30% walked out but only 20% or 10% come back. The longer this goes on, the less likely to come back. Of course 2021 has everything going for a BSA rebound. Kids and parents want to get out. The bankruptcy should end. Scouts will come back to their units, etc.

Yep. Look at the financials. Also look at the staff layoffs ("Youth-Serving Executives") down 25%. Yeah, yeah I know people hate the professionals, but keep in mind they are still humans who got laid off. New members only 104k.

There are also regional breakdowns http://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/commissioner/newsletter/2021_winter/KPI_NatlRegion.pdf

1) The court isn't going to care. The court is going to apply the law as written. If BSA is required by state law to pay out (due to look back SoL being extended), the court will apply the law. No one, not even BSA, is making a case these lookback windows are unconstitutional. 2) Congress is not about to step in and enact a federal law to block statute of limitation extension for sexual abuse cases. That is just not going to happen. No congressperson in his/her right mind is going to introduce a bill that will be depicted as denying sexual abuse victims their day in court. They will be depicted as absolute monsters. And if some 1 single House or Senate member did introduce it, there is no chance it passes.

Not just teens in general, abuse victims blame themselves, or do not want to get the abuser in trouble, or think if they report they'll get in trouble, or that it will result in some other bad thing happening. This is something that BSA YPT gets through fairly well and the Catholic youth protection (Virtus is the main one for most dioceses) pound this into people's heads. Young people need to know there are people they can go to in order to report. It may not always be mom/dad/parent/guardian. They need to know they can come to an adult who will help them and that won't turn them away.

I am wondering, too. Wild speculation here. 1) There were last minute property shifts away from LCs just before (or just after) bankruptcy that would be exposed. That was the allegation leveled against Middle Tennessee Council and other Councils. 2) Obstinate LCs: I know there were some councils in early filings that insisted that they were not going to cooperate until it could be shown there was claims in their council. I wonder (again speculation here) if these councils think they can just go it alone and are betting on no future claims against them? 3) Longstanding and questionable financials. In other words, nothing to do with the bankruptcy, just some councils have had longstanding...questionable?....financial processes. They don't want any scrutiny for possible tax/legality purposes.

Exactly. And to complicate matters, while SOME claimants may not have a valid claim NOW (e.g. victim is in a state/abuse occurred in a state where the statute of limitations ran out) they may in the near window if the SOLs are extended or repealed.

I would like to know how many were AoL. In terms of timing, It was theoretically possible since the could have been Cubs for 6 months (September 2019) and then crossed over Spring of 2020.

Hope to see folks on this call tonight.

For those tracking, the look back windows on abuse claims have usually been limited in scope (e.g. only 1 year, or extending back only XX number of years). Looks like Colorado is going to simply end statute of limitations entirely. https://coloradosun.com/2021/02/25/colorado-child-sexual-assault-civil-statute-limitations-2021/

Really? Want to go back upthread and see the demands he "ally" himself with the victims (effectively conceding all 95,000 claims as valid? That the PR campaign be waged against the plaintiff's attorneys ("Find a way to make this a discussion about how lawyers are playing both the victims and the youth of today to line their pockets.") No, thank you. And if you won't listen to me, how about from a lawyer? Have your little war.

Yes, that was in 1982 (a lifetime or two ago) and Johnson & Johnson was a victim itself. The tampering damaged J&J and killed people. It was not J&J's fault. It was an EXTERNAL force/action not of J&J's doing. And J&J was not sued for it. Did everyone here seem to forget that there is active, pending litigation against BSA for actions it did (or did not) take regarding sexual abuse? This isn't like J&J/Tylenol because the criminal act occurred WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION? BSA has already been found in several abuse cases to be at fault here for at least some of the abuse. J&J? Never happened, never found at fault. I mean. Wow. Talk about apples and oranges. As I said: stop thinking about this like Scouters and starting thinking like lawyers if you can. The WORST thing a client can do in civil case is go out and start to talk about it. And don't you believe for a second that the minute a reporter gets in front of Mosby, that's exactly what questions 1-9 will be about. Again: when there is active pending litigation involving 95,000 cases of sexual abuse, the best LEGAL strategy might just be the worst worst PR strategy. But best PR strategy is almost certainly the worst LEGAL strategy. But go ahead, push for your "war". Fortunately cooler heads are prevailing at BSA National and its lawfirms.

Because the dioceses are being sued. Not the Vatican. And again, you are more than welcome to encourage BSA national and Mosby to go out on the press circuit and answer questions about the abuse cases or whatever. His email is readily available online. But what I am telling you, and an actual attorney elsewhere on this thread, are telling you is no lawyer in his/her right mind is going to let the client go out into the press and start getting peppered with questions.

Great. You go right out with your PR "war". Meantime, every statement denying (or embracing) the abuse will be used in court against BSA to seek additional damages and/or liquidation. You'll win the PR campaign just in time for the court to order BSA into Chapter 7 because Mosby went out to the press and "allied" and conceded all 95,000 claims and went to "war" with everyone else. They have with things like the female Eagles. But in the meantime, declaring "war" is only going to antagonize, well, everyone.

The middle of a bankruptcy involving sexual abuse of minors is not the time to go to "war" against the victims, claimants, and their attorneys. And as BSA said, and I noted, once they are out of bankruptcy they have a plan ready to go. But until then, they won't move forward until they know for sure what is going to be even be left of BSA. Remember: there is a non-0% chance BSA doesn't survive this or that the bankruptcy fails and BSA has to fight sexual abuse claims in state and federal courts for years (see Catholic Church abuse scandal which has been ongoing since 1994 but in earnest since 2003, 18 years ago). But I'm with ya. War! War! WAR!

Yep. And since BSA is already IN COURT, the answer is to not make your case involving 95,000 claims of sexual abuse any worse. But sure, let's have Mosby as you said go to "War". That will just solve EVERYTHING.

This is chicken and egg: 1) BSA is losing members, therefore rebrands. 2) The rebranding doesn't work, so they try another. The fact is that ALL such and similar youth programs are suffering for years. If this was JUST a BSA thing, then why is GSUSA membership in decline as well? Youth sports have been in freefall for years. Read Bowling Alone. Some of this is just simply outside BSA's control. It is society that is changing. Kids are slack and dormant.

Here's a good indicator: 1) If your "road" includes disregarding the advice of your legal counsel in the middle of a major bankruptcy involving the biggest sexual abuse scandal in the U.S. (second only perhaps to the Catholic abuse scandal with an estimated 100,000 victims) and putting out a major PR campaign, it is a bad road. 2) If your "road" involves as @David CO put it trying to "turn the child sexual abuse scandal into a positive message." it is a bad road There is nothing wrong with "vision" and "leadership". But right this exact moment, now, February 25, 2021 is NOT THE TIME to be trying as you advocated for to start a "war" against plaintiffs counsel, to get BSA "ally" with 95,000 who have active, pending claims against BSA, or to do ANYTHING publicly other than focus on getting through a bankruptcy process before BSA runs out of cash in July or August. There is a time and a place for everything. What I have been told + rumors is that BSA WILL do a PR blitz and WILL do rebranding and WILL do a "Re-emergence" effort ONCE THE BANKRUPTCY IS FINAL. The hope is the May Annual Meeting will be announcement. But for right now, this is NOT the time.