RainShine

3 hours ago, TMSM said:

Do you have monthly committee meetings? Can you influence the agenda at all? The committe should regularly discuss the "state of the troop".

We do, and I can. I like very much the advice of committee regularly discussing state of troop. Its not happening now.

Well after I sent this I thought to do a search on this site on the topic. Found some advice. Some folks eat the costs, others have Scouts chip in $3 up front to cover meals. Chipping in up front seems like a good simple approach.

How do your patrols divvy up the cost of meals? Our Scouts parse the meal into ingredients and send Scouts to the store and hope it comes out about right. For instance, for dutch oven apple cobbler, one guy goes to buy cake mix. Another guy supplies butter. Another guy gets a can of pie filling. This cant be right. Come to think of it, this is probably done to distribute the responsibility, not the cost.

In our adult patrol, if the duty roster has me making apple cobbler, I buy all that stuff in one go. And, in a collegial manner, I simply incur the cost knowing another adult will get it next time.

Perhaps one Scout should buy the stuff and do the math, then get reimbursed later by the Scouts that participated. The cooking merit badge requires the Scout to create a shopping list and calculate the cost of the meal, but it doesn't appear to require or advise about getting reimbursed.

What do others do? Please advise.

The Scouts BSA literature says the annual planning conference is attended by the youth leadership (PLC).

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Step 3: Hold the Troop Program Planning Conference The troop’s planning conference is an opportunity for members of the patrol leaders’ council to map out the troop’s activities for the year and for the troop’s adult leaders to offer guidance and support.

But we have elections twice a year. So the youth leaders that comprise the PLC when the conference occurs create the annual program, but then months later another election happens and now a new PLC executes the plan.

Seems best that the PLC that creates the program execute the entire thing. Then if it stinks its their fault (eating their own dog food, as the saying goes). If the next PLC executes it, they may disagree w it and undermine the plan, or perhaps be overwhelmed by the plan and resent the prior PLC for putting them on the spot.

Perhaps this is a good reason to have elections only once a year. But then we cut in half the opportunities for patrol leadership. Or we could have semi-annual planning conferences.

What to do?

Our patrols elect patrol leaders every six months. But we offer ILST only once a year, in winter. So the guys elected in summer get no training which seems like this is an unfair situation. I suppose we could get busy and offer ILST in summer. What do others do?

The troop leader guidebook, vol 2, p 60, says this. 

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Great outings start at your annual planning conference, where the PLC should determine the date, focus and perhaps the location of each outing of the next year. While these decisions are the Scouts to make, adult leaders can and should push them to think a little more creatively. Here's a simple way to do this: Before the planning conference, print out internet photos of activities the Scouts could do or places they could go. Post these pictures around your meeting room and encourage the Scouts to review them before they brainstorm ideas for the next year. Chances are they come up with a more creative plan than they would have otherwise.

Returned from Camp Baldwin, OR couple weeks ago. I am sold on patrol cooking at summer camp. Okay yes it is harder but its better. Our troop is on the path from being 'troop method' to being patrol method. I'm certain patrol cooking at summer camp accelerated the improvement.

The older patrol needed no assistance whatsoever and we received no complaints from them. The younger patrol was consistently 'in the weeds'. From cooking and KP to making their merit badge classes on time, talking over each other and giving contradictory orders. Always just shy of disaster. The older scouts swooped in a couple times to help them. The adults did too. How many times did we tell them to read the instructions? Read. They're called instructions. They instruct. Even on Thursday it was better but still rough. On Friday they rallied and did great.

It was hard but they did it. Smiles all around at the end. I'm certain they developed a sense of esprit de corp in the effort.

We are looking forward to keeping it up at September troop outing.

Good stuff folks, thanks. There's no rush on this - its a 2020 project - so if the boys choose to pursue it we have time to investigate and get prepared. If there are any more ideas, please keep them coming.

10 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

considerations for tides, no?

most definitely

Okay I can see I don't even know what questions to ask. I'm the worst kind of dreamer, the kind that doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm considering proposing to the boys a canoe trek. This is on the Hood Canal in Washington state. Salt water. Drive to Belfair State Park, camp. Canoe to Twanoh state park, five direct miles, and camp there. Then on to Potlatch state park, another ten miles as the fish swims. A dad in a truck could participate by delivering the patrol boxes to each camp so the Scouts don't have to canoe w all their stuff.

I realize those are direct measurements (by google maps) so dont include drifting, etc. Following shore would add more also.

I might be crazy. You can call me crazy. I've been called worse.

Typically, with a mixed age group of Scouts 11-15yo, how far could a group comfortably canoe on a fair weather day? 

Second class nature requirement

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4. Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of wild animals (such as birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, or mollusks) found in your local area or camping location. You may show evidence by tracks, signs, or photographs you have taken.

First class nature requirement

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5a. Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of native plants found in your local area or campsite location. You may show evidence by identifying fallen leaves or fallen fruit that you find in the field, or as part of a collection you have made, or by photographs you have taken.

So I'm kinda new to Scouting but I'm all trained up and now I'm a position to sign off requirements. When I first read the Second Class requirement I read it like the boys could see or hear an animal, record it in the handbook, and when they get ten animals I would sign the requirement. And I think that's what they said at IOLS. Great.

But now I'm reading First Class. 'you may show evidence by..' Hmmm... So, for Second Class, does this mean they have to show me the evidence? Like a plaster cast of a track or a photo of a deer?

If they hear a call of a bald eagle and can identify it by sound, does that count? Or do they have to record the sound and play it back to me? In spring we heard hundreds of frogs in the marsh near camp and the boys busily wrote it down. But no-one recorded the sound of it. (wish I had, that would be cool, but I digress).

I might be making this too hard but its just that I want to get this stuff right.

We just returned from Camp Baldwin. Two thumbs up!

Our Pack activity schedule tracks with the school year, starts in September and ends in June. So the Webelo Scouts completing fifth grade in June are welcome to join the local Scout troop. My son crossed over last year in June with his den buddies.

But the Scouts were backpacking and going to five-day summer camp. It was a big leap for my son, especially summer camp. Its okay, he got through it. They all did. Learning more, the Troop was doing much easier car camping and hikes in March, April and May. Surely would have been an easier transition. Plus when we arrived in June, it was summer, so troop families were on vacation and stuff, so there is much more variation in attendance.

My observation is that most Packs in our city crossover in March or April. I don't know why ours does June. I suppose crossing over in June gives the Webelo Arrow of Light Den Leader more time to help his Scouts achieve their AoL goal.

I suppose the Scouts could cross over onsey-twosey as they achieve AoL. Then the guys that for whatever reason dont complete AoL would cross in June. That would make the Den kind of skimpy and awkward as guys get left behind.

I know the man that will be Webelo II Den Leader at the Pack and he will soon start considering his program and calendaring the activities. I feel like urging him to tighten that stuff up so his guys can crossover earlier. 

What does everyone else do?

1 hour ago, John-in-KC said:

Journey to excellence is unit serving volunteers doing metric management for the sake of the professionals. 

Okay thanks. Indeed I intend to complete the forms for our own use and not turn them in. I don't want to recreate a method for measuring improvement. I suppose if I thought we were going to get Gold I would change my mind!  😉

Thanks for the feedback. Was reading about Journey to Excellence and the forms ask about advancement numbers.

How do Patrols and Troops track advancement as a group? Like, to see how many advanced in the last six months or year? Excel spreadsheet or something?

10 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

Generally elections would involve every Scout in the troop, so elections at the PLC doesn't seem right.

Sorry I didn't mean that. They were creating the agenda for the next few weeks, leading up to the next outing. I was hoping patrol method would get a night. I was hoping to schedule it, not have it at PLC. Yes elections would involve every Scout, absolutely. Sorry I just wasn't clear.

My son crossed over a year ago. I’m on the Committee and attend meetings and outings. It’s a real nice troop, 80 years old, solid reputation in the district. The Scoutmaster is a fine fellow with deep experience. He has forgotten more than I will ever know. The ASM’s are great and I like them personally. 20-some Scouts, we have a meeting once a week and an outing every month. Good retention, advancement is slow perhaps. Everything is fine. But…

I do not see Patrol method. Now, I have no prior Scouting experience so I wouldn’t know any different except I’ve been reading books and this forum. Apparently B-P said patrol method is not a thing, it’s the thing. I read Working the Patrol Method by Four Eagle Scouts, makes it sound like Patrol method is really significant. I’ve listened to podcasts and read the Troop Leader Guide and the Patrol Leader Guide. It’s one of the eight methods. So I think it’s supposed to be, you know, important.

But I just don’t see it in action. When the troops goes camping the Scouts are all mixed together. Until recently they didn’t know the names of their own patrols. They have to refer to a list at the back of the room to see who is in what patrol. I see young guys pursuing Scout rank get stuck on the Patrol requirement because they don’t know a yell or flag or even the name of their patrol. My sons patrol leader rarely attends meetings, never outings. He is never at the PLC. The SPL is a really impressive kid and certainly the Scouts look up to him. But you could hardly call what he is doing leading in any substantive way.

I brought up my concerns in winter and there was a little progress. At a couple campouts the guys cooked and ate and did KP by patrol. But there are no Patrol activities, no Patrol corner in troop meetings, no Patrol spirit.

I’ve observed that they self-select effortlessly into informal groups. It’s not that I’m that an oracle or something, one merely has to look to see it. It’s easy. My son and his friends hang out together (inside Scouting and outside Scouting). The other fellows - older guys - hang out together. No problem. Like at a Court of Honor, my son and his gang all sat at one table, the other guys at another table. At a recent camping event, my son and his gang all camped together, the other guys all camped together. But those gangs are not our Patrols.

I recently brought up concerns again and was told Yes it’s time for elections. The patrols will be reformed. The system is working. Oh. Okay.

So at the most recent PLC, the Scoutmaster says We should talk about xxxx and so we all started talking about that. The ASM goes to the whiteboard and starts sketching out what needs to happen for the next outing. The SPL has barely said a word. As the meeting is winding down I realize nothing is going to happen. So I whisper to the SPL, “what about elections?” He sits up straight and says out loud, “Oh, what about elections?” The ASM, who is still standing at the whiteboard, looks at us, looks at his notes on the whiteboard, then turns back to us and says, “Well it’s not going to happen right now”.  And that was that.

I thought with summer camp coming up now is the time. Reformulate the patrols, have elections, create flags and yells and skits and songs, get patches. Start creating those patrol identities, all that forming and storming and norming stuff. Just in time for camp, yeah let’s do this.

But apparently not. Shoot.

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