Saltface

What does the G2SS say about terrorists?

Does this mean there is also a Protect Yourself Rules merit badge in the works?

1 hour ago, Setonfan said:

I was at the BSA national meeting, and this is really good material for the age group.  The crowd of 2,000 plus Scouters received this very positively, and the "buzz" after the session was very positive. 

You were at the BSA national meeting, everything said there gets a positive reception from the attendees.

My two cents is to make it required but please, please, please don't make it an adventure.

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

I bet I'm not the only person here who never even knew there WERE words to "Taps"...

I've heard it played on the bugle a thousand times, but never once do I recall hearing somebody sing to it.  That alone would have been worth the price of admission.

And those who have heard it before couldn't sing past "Day is done, gone the sun..." before starting to mumble.

Frequently, we separate the canton from the stripes and the stripes from each other. The symbolism is that the stripes (colonies) can be divided but the canton (union) should never be divided. If we have a large number of flags to retire, we might do this with just the first one and retire the others intact in a dignified way ...by burning as specified by Flag Code.

Can we start arguing about the proper way to conduct a flag ceremony now?

@MattR

I don’t trust the average journalist to get the technical details right, but a “makeshift slingshot” sounds more like an onager, ballista, or water balloon launcher to me. 

If the scout were blinded in one eye, I think his lawyer would have harped on it: “disability, injuries, and disfigurement.”

But what do I know? The full details of these kinds of events are seldom made public knowledge. 

I don’t understand your trebuchet. Why was your throwing arm being stretched?

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

Thanks, qwazse!

It's good to know that launching vegetables was as much fun 5 years ago as it is today!

Not so good to know that the previous discussion 5 years ago allegedly had rules about these activities, but I still can't actually FIND relevant written guidelines. ☹️

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf

It's on pgs. 99-101 but don't read it. Doing so will only bring sorrow.

Clearly, we need to update the sports merit badge. Playing baseball without full face helmets, safety goggles, and flak jackets is just too dangerous. 

8 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

 

When I had my Cubs den, I was curious of the flag protocols of other countries. I did not find much beyond fly flag in proper orientation. Nothing about folding, disposal. Do other countries have written flag codes? Hopefully the upcoming World Jamboree will shed light. 

I think most countries retire the flag through incineration (eg. Mexico, Argentina, UK). The hard part about finding flag protocol for other countries is that it's usually in another language. Argentina has a pretty robust flag code. Google translate butchers the text but you can get the idea: https://translate.google.com.ar/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.gob.gba.gov.ar/legislacion/legislacion/l-14438.html&prev=search. Trivia: they applaud the flag instead of saluting it when it passes.

If I remember correctly, the US flag folding pattern is by custom, not by law.

15 hours ago, shortridge said:

Regarding the six-feet-high rule, National Camp Standards governing summer camps say:

”Pioneering projects where participants are elevated more than 6 feet above the ground are permitted only after review by the council enterprise risk management committee.”

Perhaps these other items mentioned here had gone through some sort of review.

Makes sense.

14 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One pioneering project I have seen done, and the Scouts love, is catapults. One of the activities in the old JLTC syllabus, today's NYLT, was building catapults and launching water balloons at the other patrols. It's a great way to cool everyone off on a hot summer day. Staff had a blast walking in with ours already made and pelting the participants while they built theirs. 😎 

We always launch lemons out of our trebuchet. I believe aiming them at other patrols would be frowned upon.

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

I know.  A challenge is exciting and represents an accomplishment.  Making something too easy is just a worthless timewaster. That's why it bothers me so much when I hear about National simplifying merit badges and making them increasingly trivial --- they take the "merit" out of the badge creating yet another worthless "participation award".

Merit badges should offer significant challenges that let scouts actually experience an activity/domain.

For Pioneering, a really cool monkey bridge (or series of interlocked bridges) and towers that are high enough to actually be called "towers" are cool.  Telling scouts they get to build a "tower" and then limiting that tower to the height of a kitchen table is not cool.

Careful, you're approaching blasphemous territory.  

At one time, merit badges were specifically about proficiency. From the Jan. 1913 Boys Life:

Quote

A boy who wears a Merit Badge should be able to do the thing the badge stands for. This will enable him to be of real service whenever the opportunity comes. Of course almost any boy can commit to memory in a very short time a lot of facts regarding a given subject so as to be able to repeat these answers in “parrot-like” fashion to the satisfaction of an examining committee, but such a boy would only be a sham Scout – an imitation of the real Scout who can show others the way to do things.
Scouts are boys of actions. The only knowledge they seek is that knowledge of a subject which will make them "doers." In the interpretation, therefore, of any of the requirements it should be constantly borne in mind that this is the stand of requirements.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3JVqekZbzz8C&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false (page 16)

Personally, I'd rather a Scout be an expert at all the requirements up to First Class than have two silver palms.

40 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Sheltering in place at the first onset of symptoms, then dividing the group so that half could get rescue might have made the difference. But that would depend on their ability to find/create shade. I'm sure it's a question these scouts and scouters will be pondering for the rest of their lives.

Shade is another big issue on this mountain. There isn't a lick of it on Sunset Trail once the sun has cleared the ridgeline. Actually, there is one tree. A SAR friend of mine refers to it as the death tree because that's where they always find the unfortunates.

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

According to the National Weather Service, the high that day was 94 degrees in nearby Tucson.

The scout masters refilled the teen's water at the top, and the group turned around. While hiking back, the teen collapsed and was helped up by other scouts. About 100 yards later, the teen collapsed again and did not get up, according to the sheriff's office.

This Scout was a football player. 94 degrees isn't that hot after practicing in 115 degree weather. Previously, I thought they had all run out of water before summiting. If he was tanking and water wasn't helping, he needed electrolytes (rest wouldn't hurt, either). Water just sloshes around in your stomach at that point. I carry an MRE drink pouch in my first aid kit for that reason. Cool kids carry those salt vials that runners use.

1 minute ago, mrkstvns said:

el-lame-o short towers

That aptly describes the jamboree towers on scoutpioneering.com. I don't think my scouts would have stuck with it if that's what they were building. 

We recently took part in a district camporee building 20' towers. It was awesome but I don't understand how our DE went along with it. Yes, the adults climbed it first to make sure it was safe. The boys made various pioneering structures at four consecutive meetings leading up to the event to verify everyone had the knots and lashings down pat.

That website makes references to making towers over 6' but I don't understand how that is allowed. 

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

I think AHA teaches compression only for those who just want a basic knowledge since they may find it too demanding to do 30:2 if they are alone.

I've also heard people are often too squeamish to perform rescue breaths and chest compressions alone are much better than nothing.

13 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

I wonder if there is more to the story?

Trail looks to be only less than 2 miles from 1 parking area and less than 3 miles from another.  Not discounting dehydration that can come on quickly, 

Here is a map of the park

https://d2umhuunwbec1r.cloudfront.net/gallery/0004/0010/27F8D231CC7F4A9CB199737FE780E8D6/PIPE_ParkMap_Spring_2019_FINAL_01.pdf

The most common trail to the summit isn't very long but it's really steep, almost more of a scramble than a hike until you reach the saddle. There's a steel cable handrail that you use almost continuously (placed decades ago by none other than the boy scouts). When you're heaving just to get enough oxygen, drinking water feels like a burden. It's even worse trying to suck it out of a tube. If they finished all their water before getting to the top, I wonder how much they had.

I hope this tragedy doesn't discourage other troops from visiting the mountain. Picacho Peak is home to some quirky Arizona history. It's the site of the westernmost battle skirmish in the Civil War. The Mormon Battalion marched through the pass on their way to Tucson.

I've seen it plenty of times as part of the scoring at district camporees. Our council camps have a 100% uniform award at summer camp. There are two kinds of troops here: those that win that ribbon every year and those that don't even try. 

As for inspections during troop meetings, I've never seen it done. 

39 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

Just in case you are naive enough to think that the health care industry is okay and can regulate itself, take a look at what one kid's snake bite at summer camp ending up costing....YIKES!

Is there a link?

4 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

It should only be allowed for Texas since all other states are irrelevant.  😉 

I really wish Alaska had been split into three states of equal size so that Texas could be the biggest one.

I wonder if the venue was selected for a friendly jury or just because it was local for the Girl Scouts.

We use a local Frisbee golf course for this requirement. There are enough trees, washes, and other obstacles that the baskets/control points are out of sight and require the occasional boxing.

If you want to increase the difficulty, you can give the scouts a map and a list of coordinates and make them determine the bearing and distance. The bearing and distance lists that comprise most scout orienteering courses aren't terribly useful in the real world.

CalTopo is pretty nice. Store.USGS.gov has more data, but you'll either need a plotter or familiarity with Photoshop/Acrobat to print 8.5x11 maps.

12 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Supporting materials ... For now, the scout could bring supporting materials to his EBOR ... project workbook, pictures, diagrams, timesheets, other ....  The scoutmaster or other unit leader sitting in the EBOR could bring the reference letters and other non-scout-materials.  Long term, maybe a file repository could be created where we upload the project workbook, images and other related paperwork. 

Are you proposing that an EBOR should be <gasp> more than a "celebration"?

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/11/07/an-eagle-scout-board-of-review-isnt-a-job-interview-its-a-celebration/

Quote

Anderson plans to file multiple lawsuits against the Boy Scouts on behalf of the victims and demands the organization hand over their files, including names of those accused of abuse.

Sounds like a prospect list.

16 hours ago, David CO said:

I guess it would depend on the religion. I had an LDS student who always wore a shirt in the pool. He didn't think it was proper for boys to expose their upper torso in public. I don't know if that was just him, or if it was part of his religious training.

That’s either a personal interpretation or he was concealing his true reason. I’ve never met anyone that felt that way. 

What I was hoping to communicate with my original response is that I would prefer to go to the Oath and Law for guidance over the GSS for a question like this. In other words, “Teach them correct principles and [let them] govern themselves.”

18 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Let’s have some fun.  I predict that the November 2022 membership numbers will reflect that Scouts BSA will have net grown boys very slightly compared to year end 2018 — effectively replacing the 65% of Church of JC of LDS Members I think will depart.  And, I believe we will have no less than 200,000 girl members.  This is because we will no longer be carrying cultural war baggage and the family scouting approach will have been proven to draw membership.  Okay folks, what do you think?  Don’t just make wild predictions.  Have rationale for your views.

I'm going to put the Church of Jesus Christ retention rate at 10%. I see an increasing amount of apathy towards BSA involvement, even among those who have been quite enthusiastic about the program in the past.

On the adult side, my council reorganized into LDS and community districts last year after the announcement. Every month since, the attendance at roundtable has continuously and visibly dropped. I don't think there were 50 people present this month. Volunteers that three months ago were planning to form a few new troops have since scrapped the idea. As for the youth, many of the Varsity and Venturing-aged boys I was certain were going to finish off their Eagle have since cooled off. The new program still has all the things that interested them in Scouts so why do both?

My prediction is a 2-7% decline each year after 2020 as I see no reason for it to change.

@allangr1024 I don't feel that being an Eagle Scout has quite the cachet with the general public as it did in the past. I don't have any real polling data but the resumes sub-Reddit has a fair number of posters asking about the value of their Eagle in obtaining a job (https://www.reddit.com/r/resumes/search?q=eagle&restrict_sr=1).