bearess

I mean, this could be said of any war or historic event— first person accounts are fascinating.  They are also ephemeral.  I don’t feel sorry for younger generations who wont have first-hand accounts of WWII any more than I feel sorry for myself to have never heard a first person account of WWI.

Sure!  I don’t know all the details, but here is what I do know.  He is no longer an ASM, but is still a member of the Committee.  He accompanies the Troop on campouts as a parent, but that’s all.  

I am glad I reported it— the Scoutmaster said that it really “empowered” him, whatever that means.

I wonder how much prior scouting experience matters, really.  My dad is an ASM for my son’s troop.  I bet my dad is a pretty typical former scout for his age (born 1947)— he did a few years of Cubs, was in Scouts till he was in early HS (maybe 14 or 15), enjoyed camping, etc.  He remembers his cousin being SPL, but not who was in his patrol, other than a few friends.  I don’t think his scouting experience makes any difference in how he is as an ASM.  He follows the guidance of the SM.

Talk to their parents, use the name and pronouns they prefer.  

A Scout is kind.

CoLDS=Church ofLatter Day Saints

LatinScot, I appreciate you taking the time to answer.  I understand the basics of the LDS beliefs.  My comment was in response to those who said LDS units are run differently— to me, Troop leaders and camping are big differences.  I understand the LDS method is based on your beliefs.  I happen to disagree, but that’s neither here nor there.  

As gblotter said, the departure of LDS will result in greater program fidelity.  I’d say that the fact that such significant changes to BSA had to be made for LDS units means the program was never a great fit.  

LDS troops also limit camping for young scouts, rarely have elected PORs for scouts, and are often known as Eagle mills.  There are many differences.

Personally, I think the partnership with the CoLDS has been a net negative for BSA.  I think their willingness to bend/change the rules for one group has negatively impacted the program, making it exclusive and divisive.  I think BSA will be better for this change.  For the LDS Church, I think it’s a loss.  

I bet being a CC at recharger is miserable!  Trying to do online trading is bad enough!!

But a parent who shows up for events with a duration of less than 72 hours doesn’t need to register.  Your unit may require that, National doesn’t.  Frankly, if an adult is committed enough to show up to an event of over 72 hours, I bet they are willing to be a MBC.

I agree making a parent register and do YPT before any volunteering is overkill.  But a parent who is going on a longer trip?  Call me a helicopter Mom, but I see nothing wrong with a background check.

4 hours ago, DeanRx said:

But, when you register every possible adult... there is a nice fee that national collects... and they can force all adults to take the online YPT (even if all they ever do in scouting is drop their kid off) or else threaten to hold up the recharter.

Seems its a move to increase registration fees, mandate training compliance, all window dressed as increased concern for safety.

I agree if you are going to chaperone a unit to summer camp with presumably 99% of the kids will not be your own offspring, we need some due diligence and background checks are supported.  If you are talking about a mom or dad who are showing up to help chaperone a day hike or a MD class in a room at the church or a one hour long patrol meeting at the local park... and they do this once a year, why on earth do we need to register them, make them do the online training and PAY to register as a leader with BSA ?!?!?

Dean

But the parent dropping off or chaperoning a day hike doesn’t have to register, per National— only parents spending more than 72 hours with a group have to.

i don’t understand, at all, why a group would have to go home on Wednesday if parents were required to register— register the parents as MB counselors.  No cost to the Troop or parent, and you are in compliance.  Plus your Troop gets another MBC.  Win/win/win. Same with the unregistered cops/social worker going to Canada.  Sure, they probably have nothing to hide. So register them.  YPT takes 45 minutes, maybe— I did it while folding laundry.  No big deal.  I don’t understand the resistance to background checks at all.  

Huh.  I hadn’t seen the custom fit option before.  I wonder what the turn around time is

When my dad found the Den Mother dress, he also found a sewing pattern for Den Mother dresses.  I’ve been meaning to look at that, as well as try on the dress, as his mother was built like me— I suspect she sewed or altered the dress to accommodate her bust.

9 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

The parents are the same people the first 72 hours of a given activity as they are in hour 73.  If they cannot be trusted for 72 hours, why are they there?  Having them registered Scouters does not make them more reliable in any way that has been measured. 

Really stupid rule.

My experience is that one of two things will happen— people will withdraw themselves from the activity, or the background check will find out important info.  As I said, I was stunned that parents with sexual convictions signed up to chaperone field trips, knowing we were doing background checks!  But they did.  By following the rules, the camp gains information.  Where is the harm?

5 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

One local troop I know about - confronted by the 72 Hour rule already imposed by the Safety Bubble - simply did a couple of days at Summer Camp without complying.  That is, parents stayed over 72 hours, registered or not, and the camp staff knew, agreeing it was a "stupid" rule. 

Why is it a stupid rule?  I’ve worked in public schools that required background checks for parent volunteers/field trip chaperones— honestly, when we began to do background checks, the things some parents were convicted of shocked me.  And these were people volunteering to chaperone and be background checked!  I would not knowingly send my son to a camp that flouted this rule.

I also can’t see the benefit to not registering adults.  Running background checks strikes me as something with no real downsides.

On 5/12/2018 at 6:54 AM, RememberSchiff said:

IMO, if there is "no gender" in Scouting, USA then the uniform - shirts and pants style should be the same for all.

Oh, come on.  There is gender— there are separate dens/troops.  And there have been different uniform options for women for ages— my dad was cleaning out his house recently and found his moms Den Mother dress, circa 1957!  Personally, I wear a tan shirt, and it is terrible.  I’m large busted, but petite everywhere else— so a youth large would fit my shoulders/waist, but I wear an adult large to fit my bust.  It looks awful.  I don’t see any reason not to offer girls clothing that fits well and is flattering.

So, the SE called me today.  He was actually very clear about next steps— he’ll meet with the ASM (along with the SM and COR) on Monday.  He said if there are excuses made, or it happens again, he will pull ASMs membership.  So!  There we go.

Well, I made a YPT report.  I had conversations with the SM, ASM, COR beforehand, and felt it was the right thing.  We will see what happens— my bet is absolutely nothing!!

We currently have six girls who are already meeting/planning.  Active committee (setting up financials).  SM is a longtime ASM who is easily the most skilled backwoods camper in the Troop!  Also have an ASM lined up— 25 y/o, Venturer.  They are ready to roll!

We are recruiting the same way we recruit boys— word of mouth, mainly.  Flyers.  Community service events.  I suspect they will be up to 10-11 girls by February.

Yes, thank you for articulating my feelings. I’m not thrilled by the situation, and if my son was upset, or didn’t want to continue, I’d be livid. But...he’s not.  What he took away was that, yes, ASM loses it and it’s not OK, but that other adults saw it and intervened.  He said the SM got him a sandwich so he didn’t have to go in the dining hall crying, said it was OK, that flags get dropped every year, everyone knew it was an accident. SM also told son he was “going places”, which thrilled son to no end.  

I’m doubtful, frankly, that talking to the ASM will be effective.  He has a long history of stuff like this.  He’s not changing.  He’s a SuperScout— Eagle, Wood Badge instructor, etc.  Getting rid of him, full stop, will be tough, and may not happen.  Focusing on that as a goal might not be realistic.  I don’t know.

7 minutes ago, wdfa89 said:

I wouldn't be very patient on this.  I would speak directly w/ the SM and/or CC, possibly the CO rep if the CO is involved in the Troop (some are/some aren't).  The yelling and screaming (coupled w/prior behavior) has no place and this "asm" no longer needs to have a role or presence at Troop activities IMO (again assuming the facts as presented in the thread are 100% correct and no reason to think otherwise).

I would ensure I was present at any activity where my son and this guy were present.  I would strongly consider changing units if the Troop isn't going to remove this person.

That is my official how to handle it scoutlike.  Honestly, if it were my kid, this ASM and I would have a talk and that would be the last tiime he gets w/ 100 yards of my son let alone speak with him again.

I think all of that is the right thing to do/say— but it’s challenging.  The guy has a son my son’s age, also in the Troop.  So removing him as an ASM wouldn’t necessarily achieve the goal of removing him from Scouts—he’d still come to everything with his son.  Me going to everything isn’t possible- I don’t have the vacation time to go to camp and a weeklong summer trip (which they do every year).  I’m a Den Leader for my younger son, and those meetings overlap with the Troop meetings.

Here’s the trouble— my son likes Scouts and likes his Troop.  Any other Troop would be 15-20 minute drive, different school district, etc.  Removing him from the Troop seems like such a bad option— but letting him stay is no good either!  I do appreciate that the rest of the leadership talked to him, and I think the message was “If it happens again, you will have to leave”- but I do think they are limited in what they can do, as his son is a Scout.

Sigh.  So son went to camp last week.  He had a great time, loved it.  But, the first day, I guess there was confusion about who was supposed to be carrying the flag.  Son was carrying it, he went to hand it to someone else and dropped it.  Oops.  Son was embarrassed, all the boys acted quickly to pick it up, everyone clearly understood it was a mistake.  Well, ASM/former Cubmaster was there and apparently screamed at my son in front of everyone until he cried.  Another ASM and the SM were there, they took son aside, calmed him down.  The other ASM called me about it once they got home.  Apparently they had a meeting last night (COR, SM, both ASMs) to speak to ASM about how he talks to the boys (yelling/humiliating).  I hope this will resolve it, but I’m doubtful it will.  Sigh.  I don’t know what to do from here.

My son has a boy in his Troop who always tents with his dad (Dad is an ASM, don’t get me started).  It’s odd, and the other boys notice, but I don’t think anyone is bothered by the fact that he’s advancing thru rank.  As someone said, the rank requirements are pretty clear— none of them require doing your share of work in a patrol, or sleeping in a patrol.  I don’t nderstand the “deal” the SM made— it seems like he’s adding to the requirements.

Leaving camp without telling anyone is VERY problematic.  I would have to think very hard about how to proceed from there.

3 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

Not necessarily.  In our area, most Packs have the crossover at Blue and Gold, and yes the troop(s) send representatives, but the night is the Packs to plan.  

Same here, although it isn’t linked to Blue and Gold.  

Obviously the Crossover/AOL joint ceremony isn’t as common as I thought.  However, I do think that it’s common enough that having the option of joining the scripts into one cohesive ceremony would be nice.

Yeah, I’ve done Baloo.  I feel confident that I understand Patrol Method well enough to lead the Cubs thru AOL.   I’m also trying to involve Boy Scouts whenever possible (have a Scout or two come teach knots for the Wolves, that sort of thing).  Finally, I’m trying to gradually give them simple responsibilities now— they will vote on their electives this year, they choose their campout menu— to transition them to Boy-led when they are you, rather than jumping into that with Webelos without any preparation.

Huh.  Maybe I’ve just always been to weird troops, then!  Crossover and AOL are always simultaneous round these parts!

I’m a den leader, and I agree with whoever said that it seems superfluous at this level.  I’m sure it’s a good training, but.....I don’t feel I need leadership training to run herd on first graders!  I’m my son’s den leader now, and I’ll stick with that for four more years.  After that, I’d like to go back down and be a Tiger Leader in perpetuity.  I’d even do Lions!  I just don’t feel that a ton of training is needed for that......

7 hours ago, qwazse said:

. Why should a youth bother with O/A if they can't get a deeper understanding about what we admire the most from the native American mystique?

 Statements like the really get at what makes OA so challenging and so easy to be done poorly.  There is no “Native American mystique”— the tribes of North America are/were so diverse that there is nothing common to all of them.  Some lodges, I’m sure, work really closely with the local tribe and put on a fantastic, authentic ceremony honoring the tribe in their area.  Most don’t.  In another BSA forum I’m on, an Arrowman stated that his lodge didn’t have any Indians nearby, as the three reservations in his state were far away.  Through random professional contacts, I happen to know about a large group of Sauk and Fox living in his Council, some of whom are WWII vets working to get recognition from the government for their part in the Code Talkers program.  They would welcome OA members looking for help with ceremonies— and, they’d welcome any “cheerful service” the OA wanted to give to help them work thru the endless red tape!  But the local chapter hasn’t made any effort to find them, so the chapter does a random, half-hearted ceremony based on an amalgamation of Indian myths and lore from all over.

The odd thing about the scripts, to me, is that they aren’t related.  At every AOL ceremony I’ve been to, boys have also crossed over.  The two scripts don’t seem designed for that.