WonderBoy

2 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

 It also might be a contributing factor as to why 90% of American teens don't want to be bothered with Scouting.  

...and a healthy percentage of parents too. How do you recruit needed and necessary volunteers when you spend more time explaining what they can't do with the kids than what they can (or should) do with them?

I'm "WonderBoy" because I keep wondering what happened to the fun experiences I was able to have as a Cub and Scout...

Not even a theoretical- A friend asks me to bring his son home from a Den meeting, as he's running around with his other kids while his wife is working. And I, barely, remember to drop him off first so as to not violate YPT. Now, same kid and his brother (also a Scout) are also on my sons' soccer (football, for the rest of the world) teams. Suddenly I can't exchange rides with this family for out of town games because the soccer game is now a Scouting event because everyone in the van also happens to be a Scout?

If I can't lead my boring everyday life without violating some part of the G2SS, then the whole document starts to become meaningless. If it becomes impossible to follow, as written, then my choice is to lose my honor by only giving lip service to the G2SS or maintain my honor and withdraw as a Scouter. And I'd actually be OK with being "just" an active, involved parent, but it's clear from the ever increasing burden of training and requirements, that BSA doesn't even want that anymore. Sigh...

20 hours ago, qwazse said:

We've boiled our guidance down to: When at a meeting, be at the meeting.

This is such a great policy. It cuts to the heart of the matter (or problem, if you prefer), without needless, overly detailed specifics and yet still allows (or implies) some flexibility. I'd suggest it could even be further boiled down to "Be in the moment", but that may be too new age for some folks.

Part of the problem, as I see it, is that more and more tasks are being condensed into generally one device: our smart phones. It's easy to say, "no radios" or "no handheld games" in camp. But camera are perfectly fine. And so are books. But now my camera and my books are in my phone (well, books on my tablet). And does it make sense, in the case of summer camp, to have a parent phone an office, send a runner, try & find the scout, and have the scout run back when the parent can just phone the group's leader in their child's camp site directly? (Or, if you want to be even less restrictive, phone the scout directly?)

Electronics are just tools. Maybe the Cyber Chip needs to become more like the Tote 'en Chip. Learn about the tools and how to use them properly and then you can use them on your own. Get caught misusing the tools, and loose your privileges. (Or, if you're old school, lose a corner of your card.) And as to adults and their electronics use possibly being considered hypocrisy? Maybe. But adults are not kids. Their needs are different. If I have my phone, then parents have a point of contact and the kids don't need to carry theirs 24/7. Some adults may have jobs such that the availability of electronic communications is the very reason they are free to attend the function in the first place.

For me, the most important thing is that we model good electronic citizenship so that our Scouts have a good example to follow. 

54 minutes ago, cyphertext said:

No, it's your murse... man purse.  

I like to use a term our brothers across the pond use (more generally), and refer to it as my, "kit". 

This is the type of stuff that makes me think of giving up being a Scouter. When I have to expend more mental energy figuring out whether or not I'm following the ever increasingly complex rules than I expend thinking about programming... the cost/benefit ratio is way out of whack...

21 hours ago, Saltface said:

One of my favorite What-If questions: If men carried purses, what would be in yours?

Not a "What-If". As the stay-at-home parent I started carrying a bike messenger style bag instead of a diaper bag. Post-diaper, I still often grab it.

Pen, pencil & small flashlight on the strap. Larger flashlight and lock blade w/ seatbelt cutter & window breaking point clipped just inside the flap. Small first-aide kit, small kit of AC chargers, DC battery back-up, cables for phones (anyone's not just mine) & dry cell batteries (AA & AAA's). Wet wipes, bag of bendy straws (remember, started as a diaper bag), a few napkins and empty plastic zip-loc bags. A small weather radio, small digital camera, compass, multi-tool, modest Swiss army knife, hand sanitizer, and a small tape measure. Various granola bars and 500ml of water. A pad of paper and a stick of lip balm. Oh, and it seems I still have a few of those stick down, disposable placemats from Chick-fil-A. 

11 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Issue is with large packs.  I have 80 Scouts  and would like to direct them to their den line for various reasons.  Neckerchief color is a great way to quickly and easily see a “lost” scout.

Not to be dismissive or snide, but that's an adult problem. And in my (however limited) experience, the "average" Pack is probably closer to 40 kids or less. What I worry about is the kids (OK, the parents) having to spend an additional $37.96 per year (at current Scout Shop pricing) on a hat, slide, neckerchief, and (maybe) belt buckle every year. I personally don't feel there's $37.96 in "value added" by having kids switch those out every year. Boy Scouts (soon to be "Scouts, BSA!") certainly don't change out anything with every year they're active. Or with every Rank they achieve. Why do we think this is necessary for Cub Scouts? Other than paying our designated tithe to the Scout Shop...

Or maybe a Scout is thrifty and we go back to everyone, except the Webelos, wearing a yellow neckerchief and hat?... Just sayin'...

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

To summarize this thread.  There is an early adopter FB page and the National Director for Cub Scouts released a video that mentioned any Pack that adds girls must have a female Cubmaster or Assistant Cubmaster  AND every girls den must have a female ADL or DL.   Both are changes to requirements from the Early Adopter program (which is fine).  Outside of the video the official Cub Scout material/rules have only mentioned the DL/ADL requirement.  It appears G2SS was updated and that may point to having ACM/CM female lead requirement or that may be covered by the DL/ADL requirement.  I’m still waiting to hear official word.

<snip>

Also frustrated that rules are not clear (if ACM/CM requirement is real) < 1 month away from full go live.

Grrrrrr....

Personally, staffing requirements for me locally would be easier if the requirement was for a female CM/ACM only. It'll be a lot easier to recruit ONE female to be a ACM than however many we'll need  (up to 6?) for den leadership. Plus that would finally give me an ACM to groom (does YPT allow me to use that word?) to take my place as CM. I know many Packs have a lot of female leadership, as evidenced by the 50/50 ratio at Roundtables, but our Pack has pretty much exclusively males in uniform. In spite of my efforts to cajole more women.

And here we are accepting girls into more of our programming, while simultaneously saying, "women can mentor our boys, but men aren't capable of mentoring our girls without female assistance/guidance". So I guess that we're not truly just "opening up our membership to those interested in our programming". Because these leadership requirements imply that there's something fundamentally different about the programming now that requires a female's presence. How and in what way do these requirements make our kids safer?

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

The next 18 months will be an extremely busy time, and we plan to take our troop out with a bang - not a whimper. Several big blow-out Scouting adventures are being contemplated for summer 2019.

Nothing like a deadline to really bring things into focus... Just ask any Life Scout approaching his 18th birthday...

(I hope your results exceed your planned expectations.)

13 minutes ago, David CO said:

Scouting is a game for boys.

So many programs would be so better off if we did a better job remembering that. We learn so much better (adults & kids alike) when we're having fun. For me, in a great program the advancements are a byproduct of the learning which is itself a byproduct of adventure and fun. 

Making the tan uniform an option for Webelos was a brilliant move when it became an option. Just ask any parent of a growing Cub Scout who intends on becoming a Boy Scout (Scouts, BSA after Feb 2019).  Making it a requirement... is just more proof that National Supply plays a big part in the pyramid marketing scheme that is modern day Scouting. 

(And don't get me started on having a separate hat, slide, neckerchief and, in some cases, belt for each year. If a Scout is truly thrifty, they can make do with the perfectly serviceable uniform they already have. Just my $0.02)

I feel your pain. Just last night before we started our Pack meeting, a Committee member and I realized we had differing understandings of the forthcoming rules. In spite of having just attended the same Roundtable where the discussion focus was Family Scouting. It's no wonder my District & Council are suggesting not to encourage any sign-ups of girls until August. 

So does this mean that all boy dens now require at least one male leader too? Or is sexism a one-way street?

Having worked around a lot of greasy motorcycles and trailer hitches back in my days administrating a motorcycle training program, I took a hint from one of my instructors who's day job was running a greasy semi-tractor up and down the road. Murphy's Oil Soap. The original, not the specialty stuff. Spot soak full strength with some gentle rubbing and then wash in the warmest water you're comfortable putting your uniform in. 

And to echo for the umpteeth time, don't use heat to dry until you're absolutely sure the stain is out.

1 hour ago, desertrat77 said:

I also like their approach of the women being identified as "Girl Scouts" and not utilizing the false exclusivity of Gold Award only, like the BSA does with Eagle ("Four Eagle Scouts playing in the ___________ Bowl.")

I think this is an important point. Leadership and skills for life are not exclusive to Eagle Scouts. And there are plenty of former Scouts out there who would be more ardent supporters for a club they belonged to, (Scouts), over one they didn't (Eagles). 

The best Den Leader in my Pack "only" continued through Cub Scouts. Three years in, I JUST discovered that his Assistant is an Eagle Scout. (Don't get me wrong, the ADL is a great guy, but the DL clearly has better leadership/management talents.)

If we really want to shine a light on the benefits of Scouting to the general public, why are we only highlighting the accomplishments of approximately 4% of us?

8 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

yup, in the  Great Screw Up of '72

Bet I still have a shirt with that on it somewhere in the attic

I think I have one too, down in my basement. An old dark green Explorer/Leadership Corps shirt. You had to buy the little embroidered strip with the appropriate label (Explorers or Scouts) for your use separately. 

My guideline has usually been the "ideal" troop makeup from "back in MY day" of my old council contingent to a National Jamboree. Four patrols of eight Scouts, plus 4 leadership Scouts (SPL, ASPL, QM & Scribe?) for 36 Scouts. This was accompanied by four adults: one SM and three ASM, one of which had to be between 18-21. One of the ASMs may have been focused primary on helping the Quartermaster, but my ancient history is a little fuzzy at this point. Obviously not everyone's situation matches these numbers and this was back when two deep leadership was just good practice and not policy etched in stone. But it meant there was one adult eating with each patrol to help ensure Scouts were adequately feeding themselves and provide any requested guidance. It also meant that in the event of an individual emergency, one or two adults could attend to it and still leave two adults to supervise the rest of the troop. 

Does a Troop need more than "X" number of ASMs? Maybe not. But leaders need backups and eventual replacements. And getting someone fully trained and certified takes time and energy. And I've never worked with or in a volunteer organization that could afford the luxury of turning away willing help.

My oldest son's Troop is on the small side (they just grew to 16 boys and had to form a second patrol!) and is constant need for trained adults to ensure two deep leadership for campouts. Do they need more ASMs? Not really. More Committee Members? No. But until they institute a "Reserve Assistant Scoutmaster" or "Qualified Transportation Specialist", ASM or Committee Member are the only real options for some Troops to ensure enough trained adults are available for when the Scouts want to go camping.

Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary, test on unseen area before washing...

I'll second most of what bsaggcmom said.

But rather than pinning (or stapling) patches, I'd recommend a temporary fabric adhesive. I use a product by Odif called "505 spray and fix" designed for "sewing applique & quilt craft". You spray it on the back side of your patch and then place it how/where you want it. It sticks weak enough to reposition if needed but strong enough to hold in place while sewing. And it washes out with the first washing.

Also, keeping the stitch per inch setting (longer stitches) on your machine lower (less than 10?) makes it easier to remove the seams later.

If you're particularly OCD about your unit numbers get the thinest non-fusible interfacing fabric you can find and sew your unit numbers to that first, then trim the interfacing as close to the numbers as possible. You now effectively have a single unit patch to sew onto your shirt. This works particularly well if you're not using the fabric adhesive.

As for machines, most basic machines should do OK. Given that most of the sewing I tend to do ends up being heavier fabrics, when my old (my grandmother got it right before I was born) Singer finally gave up the ghost, I replaced it with a Janome (New Home) brand HD-3000 machine. This is one the heavier duty, non-commerical, machines that I'm aware of. I've repaired the loop (two layers of thick web strap) on my dog's leash with much fuss. I've yet to try leather, but people claim it can be done, with the right needle, of course.

And finally, if you want to retain full use of all your shirt pockets, you'll still end up with some hand sewing.

Good luck!

A lot of smiling faces doing a lot of cool stuff! Good job Skip!

Thanks Eagle94-A1!

That fills in the missing pieces for me. I was pretty sure about the neckerchief and slide, but I wasn't too sure about the headgear back then. Heck, even today it's not obvious what the "correct" official headgear is for a Cubmaster. As near as I can tell it's the green Boy Scout ball cap, but the Cubmaster is the only one in the Pack to wear it.

While I still have my original ODL "mk1" (LOVE that term, btw) and can still button the shirt, my wife says I may not wear it in public. But I REALLY don't like the zip-off pants and I'm none too impressed with the newer shirts either. So thanks be to eBay. So I'm still on the lookout for the old "Trained" version of the Cubmaster patch with the silver/mylar highlights and now, apparently, an appropriate hat. But other than that eBay and patience has been my friend.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

Maybe some of our "greybeards" can help me with some vintage uniforming questions. (And, yes, my own beard is pretty grey these days.)

My uniform collection consists of original ODL, brown button shirts and the matching pants with the cargo pockets on the side. I'm familiar with what was correct accessories and patch wear for a Scout/Scouter of that time but I never paid any attention to the Cub Scout side at the time. Now that I'm a Cubmaster, I'd like to know what was period correct wear. What hat, neckerchief and slide, specifically, would have been worn by a Cubmaster back then. Was the current "Cub Scout Leader" neckerchief the same as the one worn back then? Would the Cub Scout slide bearing a Wolf on a blue background be period correct? And what kind of hat was the Cubmaster supposed to wear? The green ball cap with the red front? Anything else I'm missing?

I've also been unable to upload an avatar from either Firefox or Safari on a Mac.

Welcome aboard.  Glad you're getting your sons into Scouting.  My cousin grew up in Chicago, he was in the Calumet Council for years. 

Thanks!

Calumet Council and Michigamea Lodge were my original home.

Greetings all! I've been lurking around for quite a while now and finally broke down and registered in the forum.

After about eight months of OJT as the Assistant Cubmaster, I've just recently taken over as our Pack's Cubmaster. I've got one son who's a Webelo 1, another who's a Wolf and, I suspect the real reason I was asked to be Cubmaster, a third son who's still at least two years away from becoming a Lion. If I don't screw things up too terribly the Pack could have me around for longer than our average Cubmaster.

As a youth I was an active Cub Scout and Boy Scout in the southern Chicago suburbs and even spent a couple of short turns as an Assistant Scoutmaster in North Florida in the late 80's and again in Central Illinois in the early 90's. And then, you know... life happened.

So now I'm a WonderBoy. Wondering about how much Scouting has changed in those intervening years, wondering how I got myself talked into this and wondering if I can manage to leave (whenever that may be) our Pack in at least as good of shape as I received it.

-WonderBoy