Back Pack

I dunno if only the web had the ability to have central places, call them hubs or portals, where you could start and then easily navigate to the desired information and as a backup the whole site accessible to and  indexed by common search engines...

 

We seem lost, but let's look at a map.

 

http://2zcwe21sj5ak1wpzl92omr3u.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/architecture.pdf

 

http://itroadmap.scouting.org/

Maps are only good if:

 

- They are accurate

- They show all hazards

- The user knows how to use them

- You have all the gear you need to get from Point A to Point B safely and timely.

A tone of liberation from the LDS scouts?

Don't know exactly why other than these Venturing units wanting to stay in Venturing and away from "all the crap in Boy Scouts". His words.

So have the Scout call or email the the SM a week or so in advance. Problem solved.

By the way, the general recommendation from Church leaders has been to register older boys in the Boy Scout troops so that they can continue in the advancement program if they wish. It's only the Varsity and Venturing programs and won't be getting new registrations; most will simply be siphoned back into the Troops instead of automatically being moved up as they were before. So the BSA will not really be losing that much revenue; it's more of a "moving around" than it is a "moving out."  

Must be different where I live. At RT last night four LDS unit said they were folding and didn't expect their scouts to "move" anywhere but on to other things.

Okay, take the last week of summer camp, immediately followed by a week of NYLT, and make sure the troop leaves for BWCA right away after that.  I'm thinking one could almost knock out close to all 20 at one time if they played their cards right.  The only catch is consecutive nights, not locations.

How. That's three long camps.

Maybe National should be forced to continue to use Tour Permits until they figure out the planning aspect of the program?

No. They should just learn how to run a professional organization where you update your documentation when you make a program change.

 

If it's going to take years to clean that up, national should expect people to be confused and disgruntled.

How do traditional scout troops handle activites with age restrictions such as caving or using power tools?

 

Easy...the PLC has a second activity for the younger scouts or they have the younger scouts use the tools they are allowed to.

They count only one summer camp to keep Scouts from making their 20 nights for the Camping MB at just summer camp and a few monthly camp outs. It's the same reason OA only counts one camp. Scouting is about being outside.

Hello,

I need some assistance with a scout that was using the old handbook with the new 2016 requirements stapled in. He is a tenderfoot and has been since 2015. Half of the requirements were done using old, half with new. On the new requirements insert, if the requirement was already completed and signed off in old handbook, he checked it off and referenced the requirement number it was with the old requirements. Other than being very messy, is this acceptable? Or should I have him get new signatures on the new inserts to avoid any issues?

I realize I may be splitting hairs but I dont want any scout to run into problems when they try for Eagle and someone looks at their handbook.

He was carefull to only check off requirements that did not change at all and word for word are the same.

Any suggestions or insight?

We are keeping them in both books. Guys that didn't finish first class by 2017 have to use the new requirements, but we still sign off on both books...just in case.

Thank you for the infograph. I've never seen that before! Looking at it though, just brings more questions. Under the camping category, it says family camping is only allowed at council designated locations. Does that mean our pack summer campout has to be at a council owned property? Also, it says Webelos are allowed to go on den overnights, but not weekend overnights. Does that mean multiple night campouts are not allowed?For any age? I'm more confused now than I was before I started looking!

I'd rlike n the questions past the district camping chairman.

Hello! I'm a regular reader around here, but I don't post often. I joined the forum when my son started as a Tiger, and now he's a Bear, soon to become a Webelos scout. My husband and I are co-den leaders, and we have another parent we consider an assistant den leader. We are backpackers, and we've tossed around the idea of backpacking with our Webelos den. Our assistant leader is keen on the idea, as well. I know that Webelos dens are allowed to camp on their own, not only with the pack, but I've been coming up empty on finding answers as to whether they can go backpacking. We'd obviously keep it age appropriate, a couple of miles of easy terrain at the very most, and make sure the boys weren't carrying too much weight. But I don't want to start any kind of planning until I find a definitive answer on whether it's allowed or not. So, does anyone know if it is in fact allowed, or can point me in the direction to find out for sure? I've put a call into my local council, but they gave me a bit of the run around last week, before telling me they'd have someone contact me when they had an answer. No call so far.

 

For the day, yes. Overnight, no. This is a great guide to remind leaders who can do what.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416_Insert_Web.pdf

Last year it was about 30.  Our only official communication from the pack was a once a month email newsletter.  Pretty much nothing else other than the occasional right before the event email with details.  Led to a lot of confused parents asking what was going on, esp. if they accidentally deleted the email.  Further more, the pack did not have a dedicated email list serve or similar for the parents or leadership, so people were frequently left off emails.  It was disorganized enough the one den was actually left behind when we went on a pack field trip b/c no one told them the pack was going on a field trip.  They showed up to have their meeting to an empty building.

 

MyPack/SOAR has a ton of communications and automated features for managing your Pack.

I lived in the NE and we tent camped year around. We didn't have all the high tech gear out now. Long underwear and layers. No one died. Didn't cabin camp once. I wonder what has changed.

It is about the money - which is why we will see girls in the cubscouts as paying members in 2018.  Pretty much all of the Scout Executives are for it - it gives them a larger pool of potential members and can increase their statistics.  The Paid side of BSA is all about the numbers and, in my opinion, could not care less about the wishes or needs of the units.

This is asinine thinking on bsa's part. You don't alienate your key membership in the HOPE of opening up a new membership category. It's ten times more expensive to attain new customers than it is to retain existing ones. That's Business 101 that any MBA student would learn. Heck, any BA Business student would learn that. If bsa is thinking like this their thinking is fundamentally flawed.

@@NJCubScouter, while not new issues (memebership and revenue loss), the loss of lds is probably the most significant loss in memory.

It's a BSA activity, no? Again, why do we believe one quote of a doc that says one thing but not the other quote in the SAME doc? The Gtss says "patrol activity" but an eagle project is clearly not that.

 

It's a bsa activity so it would require an adult.

My thoughts.

 

Since when is an Eagle Project considered a troop activity requiring adult present? According to the Guide to Safe Scouting "

There are instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders

is not required and adult leadership may be limited to patrol leadership training

and guidance. With proper training, guidance, and approval by troop leaders,

the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. page 1 ( page 10 of pdf found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf)

 

 

If you read further in that same document you'll come to this bit on page 39, it's the bsa sweet 16. The first part says:

 

Qualified Supervision. Every BSA activity should be supervised by a conscientious adult who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children and youth in his or her care. The supervisor should be sufficiently trained, experienced, and skilled in the activity to be confident of his or her ability to lead and teach the necessary skills and to respond effectively in the event of an emergency. Field knowledge of all applicable BSA standards and a commitment to implement and follow BSA policy and procedures are essential parts of the supervisor’s qualifications.

@@RememberSchiff, I read that "inconvient truth" line and all I could think of was Manbearpig. That may be a generational reference so I'm sorry.

 

It think there's a difference between the changes made to bsa's program historcally and the changes made recently. With 70% of your customers being associated with religious institutions, and the largest being lds, one doesn't change their product without addressing their needs.

 

One thing is certain, bsa has an ivory tower mentality, lead by clueless execs who are far too entrenched in their own bureaucracy to care about what goes on outside their window in irving.

We won't know if that's a winning or losing bet for a long time.

 

The LDS news is just a small piece of a much longer story that will play out for years to come.

 

Welll if bsa doesn't replace all the members and revenue they've lost as a result of these changes, the on they've lost. No company makes changes that loses revenue AND customers to its flag ship product to focus ona less productive and unknown product. That's just bad business. But I do admit bsa is likely so stupid as to believe such anplanncould work.

Adult leaders are VOLUNTEERS.  We don't HAVE to do anything.

 

You do if the bsa guidelines require someone trained to be someplace to support unit activities.

If you believe that I've got some swamp land...

I'll have to ask-but what happens if no other scouts or helpers are there-do we go ahead and work on it anyway even if notice was given?

Check out the guide to advancement. I believe the minimum number is three.

What would a trained leader have to do with it? He does not need a leader trained or otherwise.

 

Ah read the quote above. It's considered a unit event so the BSA requires the same adult coverage they would for any unit event. Our district insists on this too. The adults can stand around as usual but you can't have 16 year olds using chainsaws. The unit lead needs to make sure Sweet 16 and Tools Guidelines are followed. Yes the candidate leads, just like youth at Philmont lead...but they don't hit the trail alone, do they?

Our Troop says that-is it listed on the BSA web site to check on-we are in Three Fires in the western suburbs of Chicago , Sycamore, IL

Do these leaders perhap mean that a trained leader must be present?

Of course, if the boys were doing what they're supposed to do, like in my mixed age patrol troop, the new kids would be welcomed and learning. Don't throw out the model just because some people don't know how to implement it.