Scourge

It's really about time.  It's not as if this potential change will be the ruin of BSA.  There is no changing Girl Scouts, all it ever will be is gluing popsicle sticks and cookie selling.  I find it odd that only the United States and Iran can't handle co-ed scouting programs.  I don't see how this shift can kill the BSA, yes things would be different but in a good way.  The majority of Boy Scouts now have no motivation to lead or go on high adventures.  The boys that do go to Venturing.  Boy Scouts also have no idea how to act around girls.  This would be an opportunity for them to finally learn that it isn't that hard. 

But this slices in the opposite direction as well. I've had girls who wanted to "style up" their image in their uniform (leave open more than one button on a green shirt, or tie it off in a mid-riff). It's a really tough sell convincing them that loyalty to the organization should triumph loyalty to some fashionista. Although @@Scourge, I'm sure, made no comprise with her uniform, others have.

 

Norming both groups takes time.

Yes some girls are like that and show more than they should.  However inside of Venture scouts, this type of girl is rare.  My crew mates and I wore normal clothing the entire time.  Scout pants, T shirt, hiking boots, and a hat. 

In part, the majority of Venturers I've interacted from LDS and non-LDS, troop-based and non-troop-based, high adventure and non-high adventure crews have all been in the program because the genuinely want to be in the program. They didn't join the program on the promise of awards. They joined it on the promise of sharing experiences they wouldn't normally be able to do with their peers.

 

My $0.02.

I totally agree.  It's an organization that offers adventure and opportunities to do great things.  Few Venture scouts make advancements because to most of us we just love the camaraderie and chances to do things that we wouldn't be able to do on our own. 

@@Scourge, who would you want to be accepted into this society? Assuming that you'd get there yourself, what type of venturers would you like to be in your company? What would you like them to accomplish?

The standards of becoming a member should be high.  Camping and leadership experience such as NYLT, Kodiak, NAYLE, and many high adventure experiences under their belts.  People that work hard and show common courtesy to all people.

My son enjoyed Venturing, I endured it for him.

Just curious, what makes you dislike the Venturing program?

A female Venturer from our district wore a "body cam" the whole time she was there. If guys pulled that stuff she simply said "This thing's rolling and I have your face and your unit number. Expect a visit from the Camp Director." She's a budding police officer and refused to put up with that stuff. According to her she turned in about 6 guys. She said she could have turned in 5 times that but it would have been a full time job.

That is great, I wish I had a go pro to do that.  Props to her for not only calling them out but making sure their behaviors would be dealt with later. 

As a female Venturer, which would you prefer? A new Venturing-only program or integration with the OA?

While I see both sides, I would prefer a new Venturing honors program.  It seems as though any boy can get into the OA without any outdoor or leadership skills whatsoever.  Some members that I see in it would've never in a million years qualified thirty years ago.  As an outsider looking in, the Order of the Arrow looks like a hollow shell of a former great organization.  Why?  Because standards dropped and everything was dumbed down.  An exclusive Venturing honors society would be much more high speed and something I would be interested in joining. 

I strongly can attest to your son's assessment of unscoutlike behavior at the 2017 Jamboree.  So many of my fellow crew members were stolen from.  Entire backpacks, chargers, patches, phones, shoes, anything.  My biggest problem was catcalling.  As a female venture scout, me and other females were constantly being catcalled and made uncomfortable.  A boy said he would enter the youth female changing tent while I was in there. I yelled at him (not a nice thing at all) from inside the tent and he ran away.  My friend was patch trading down in Charlie and decided not to make a trade.  Because of this she was called a "dumb whore".  I was throwing away trash and a scout tried to grab my attention yelling "Hey baby mama!" I decided to ignore it and keep walking.  But he ran in front of me, looked me up and down and said " Wassup baby mama!?"  I tried to address his behavior but he went away.  I wanted to talk to his scout master but lost him in the huge crowds.  I was also walking back from a show last night.  A boy approached my friend and told her. "Ma'am you dropped something." she looked at the ground confused.  He said "You dropped your standards, hi, I'm Issac."  Then less than a minute later a scout walked up behind me and sounded like a broken record saying "Romance, romance, I want a romance, romance, romance, I want a romance!" The entire time us venture scouts were treated like novelties that were there to be flirted with and embarrassed.  This made me lose a lot of respect for the BSA.  If it's ok to treat women like that with no consequences whatsoever, what kind of organization is it? 

The vibe of the meeting was tense and frustrated overall.  Many wanted the OA to integrate.  I wasn't at the meeting but I did camp in foxtrot and was informed of how it all went.  Some did bring up "The Silver Circle," a possible new honors society exclusive to venturing.  Despite the proposition many venture and boy scouts still supported integration. 

Well the main reason the venture crew and troop are one is because venturing is not as nearly supported or known as boy scouts.  This gives us venturers a chance to do the activities we really want to do, but cannot do alone due to lack of support by the community or numbers.  There's no tension between crew and troop, and the troop still learns leadership in our present.  Last year I attended boy scout camp as a venturer and attended a high adventure out of bound program.  This didn't take anything away from the boy scouts and I got to learn and grow as well.  With anything new, problems arise.  But not every venture program disrupts or tears apart a troop.  

I think that it's healthy for young people to discuss politics in an appropriate environment.  Because in school and anywhere else, any interest in politics is looked down upon or silenced.  This raises a generation that doesn't even know what Democrats and Republicans are (not kidding.  An 18 year old asked me what a Republican was).  If the scouts bring up politics around a late campfire, I think it's ok under the right circumstances.  If a scout is being too aggressive, or is plain out lying, then the situation should be diffused.  Now since you're the adult, your position is a bit more complicated.  If you were to inject into the discussion, I'd suggest doing as my history teacher did way back in 8th grade.  Us students would have heated political debates.  These debates were never started by the teacher, but us students would start them.  It was a great stress reliever and they made us all think.  My teacher didn't give away his position but he'd ask us questions or bring up valid points to make us reconsider a statement we made.  He'd respect what we said and we felt safe voicing our opinions.  But he'd still make us really think about what we thought about in politics and WHY.  

Thanks for reviving this @@Scourge, as we all benefit from the boots-on-the-ground perspective. So let's take a for-instance weekend where your crew is sharing an activity with the troop.

Does your troop operate in patrols? (Basically that would mean each patrol has their own campsite apart from the other adults. In a big open field there would be 300 feet of space between campsites.) If so:

Where does the crew camp relative to the patrols?

With whom do the dual venturers/boy scouts camp?

What trade-offs in time and responsibility do they make?

Are those of you who are only registered with the troop responsible for anything (e.g. a skit to the campfire, etc ...)?

Who decides when something is crew-only, troop-only, or crew-troop activity?

 

Lots of questions, but for readers who are trying to figure out how to make this work ... the answers may help them decide a course of action. Users may browse my replies to see how my crew worked, but generalizing from a sample of 1 is a bad idea.

Well first things first, this troop and crew operates from a smaller town.  So there's just one patrol.  On campouts a lot of the surrounding troops get together at a campsite and have a weekend to camp.  The troop and crew share the same campsite but with both genders having a separate area.  So those that are solely boy scouts and those that are boy scouts and venturers are mixed together.  So even though there are two separate programs we operate as one, sharing the same duties and camp responsibilities.  The troop however still manages under the Senior patrol leader and Scout Master, and since the Scout Master is also in charge of the crew we all work together as one.  I'm still new to scouting so I can't really go into a lot of detail about management and such but it's as if all of us are in one big scouting unit.  The Scout Master usually decides what event is what, since he leads both.  Most of the boy scouts are in the venture crew as well so sometimes he doesn't really need to clarify if it's a venture crew event or boy scouts event.  This hasn't caused any issues or troubles and we all work as one.    

I applied to attend 2017 National Jamboree. Have yet for a response even though I was told the process could take a while.  Not sure what to think since I've had people tell me different views on what Jambo is really like. 

My Venture Crew is lead by the same man that is the local troop's scout master.  The venture crew is usually part of boy scout troop activities and vise versa.  This is mainly because many of the boy scouts in the troop are part of the venture crew. This doesn't cause any trouble and has little to no issues. 

Two Words: Girl Scouts

@@Stosh Thank you for the great welcome.  I really enjoy venturing and I'm so glad to be out of Girl Scouts  .  I have been an Air Force brat all my life until recently.  My father, Desertrat77 served for 30 years so it's weird to be in one place for so long.  I thought I was the only girl like this until I met the venturing crew.  Now I get to do things I never thought I could do and more. 

Is it safe to say there are prescribed ways of doing things (US Code) and accepted practices (various manuals on flag etiquette from the military) which have made their way in to civilian life which have become common practices?

Camp Hale.  I went there this summer and me and two other venture friends attended the "kiamichi warrior" program.  It's a really fun camp

The true difference between Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts is management and activities.  As a former Girl Scout, I can tell you I hated every second of it.  I was a brownie and I have always been athletic. Before meetings in the gym I would start a game of tag, and the two head troop leaders (a mother and daughter) would scream at us and punish us.  They called us animals and brats because we didn't want to sit around all day and glue popsicle sticks.  Every girl wanted to be outside and camp. My airforce family moved away from that place thank God and we ended up in New Jersey.  I was 9 or 10 at the time.  I was informed of a Girl Scout Troop that "camped a lot" and "was like Boy Scouts".  I registered and liked it at first, but we went camping once, and that was at some Earth Day festival so it wasn't real camping.  I also was bullied and ostracized by the older girls.  When the Troop Leader wasn't around they'd call me names and shove me and criticize me.  Now that I'm a venture scout (working with a Boy Scout Troop) it is ten times better.  We camp every two weeks or so and are currently planning a 50 miler hike in the Washita Mountains.  Seeing the difference between Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts really made me see how different the management of both programs were.  Girl Scouts is all about sewing and other uninteresting things like that, while Boy Scouts is a safe learning environment that builds and improves character for boys of all ages.