PbW

I do metrics development, analytics, and reporting for IT Service Management teams. Been involved with ITSM / ITIL operations for seventeen years.

I'm really torn on this issue. One part of me is glad national made this decision as I don't feel discrimination has a place in scouting. On the other side my oldest is going into Webelos-I and my youngest son won't start Tiger until 2017. My oldest is (currently) dead set on earning Eagle like Daddy, being a leader, and being a Buffalo like his dad and his grandpa. I've been taking my youngest to my pack activities for a while and he wants so bad to follow his big brothers foot steps. My daughter is in girls scouts and my wife is her troop leader. We're a scouting family. If this issue causes the major fracturing of support for the BSA that some feel is possible I fear my sons won't have access to the same quality program. I can teach them the skills independent of the program, but the unit environment scouting offers and the leadership opportunities available are aspects I can't teach at home. 

Regardless of your side in the politics of this... here's to scouting surviving in the US.

For my pack (50 boys) we charge $10 for monthly dues and then recharter and boys life. Total is $156 so we round down to $150. We allow them the offset that cost through popcorn sales using the equation (150 - Sales * .33) so they can choose to sell popcorn or write a check (due net 30 after popcorn closes). We cover pretty much everything except basic uniform costs and try to avoid asking parents for a dime after that.

While it may not be worth the fight' date=' schools MUST give equal access to facility use, including BSA. That issue hit the courts a number of years ago. But they put you in an awkward position when you challenge them and then they ban all groups equally. Of course, we also have administrators that make their own rules for "their" school; and they generally are not challenged, even when maybe it should be.[/quote']

 

Does that (MUST give equal access to facilities) apply to organizations, like the BSA, that have discriminatory membership policies? I honestly don't know. I fairly sure the number of businesses that will support scouts had gone down since the kerfuffle over discriminatory membership regarding homosexuals was a major news story. I've heard some COs have dropped their units over it (mostly the hardcore evangelical ones). I'd not be surprised if public schools were under some policy to not give equal access to discriminatory groups.

 

In regards to the OP, I have some experience with B&G Clubs. In my city the B&G Club is used as after-school babysitting when both parents work. Given most households have all adults working in our rather blue-collar town it's common for these clubs to have a huge membership. My son went to a public school for 2nd grade and there would be over 100 kids in after care, and the city had five locations (it's almost 100,000 population with probably 15-20 elementary schools). As a Cubmaster that also works 8-5 I do not have the option of providing services from 3-6PM like these groups can. That never stopped me from picking my son up, grabbing our uniforms and a bite to eat, and heading to scouts. I'd try to work with them to see if you can recruit out of them instead of seeing them as competition.

 

I wanted to add... the school my son went to last year did have a cubscout pack until a few years ago. Disbanded when the leader's kid was getting his Eagle and he had long since checked out with no parents wanting to step up. The principal asked me to start a new unit but I had already committed to be Cubmaster of the pack attached to the troop I earned my Eagle with in 92.

Seriously??? With all the crime, graft and corruption coming out of Chicago, one would think the legislators would be worried more about something than what the state pie is.

 

Stosh

You mean ask them to tackle the real problems Illinois has like being a step away from junk bond status, soaring un(der)employment, underfunded pension plans, and horrible business climate? Pish-posh... much better to debate non-nonsensical garbage like state pies.

This year I had nine Webelos-II in my pack. Five of them decided to crossover two weeks ago while the other four chose not to.

The weekend of our Blue & Gold the Webelos-II group went on a camping trip with the Troop we're connected to (same charter org). They came back and attended our B&G a few hours later where the OA Dance/Ceremony Team performed the Crossover. I learned a week afterwards that three of the four holdouts have decided they enjoyed the campout so much they want to crossover too. So we'll be doing another crossover in May and sending eight new scouts to the troop.

Parts of this discussion remind me of people who move in close to an existing airport, and then complain about how noisy it is when the planes fly over.

 

Boy Scouts has a religious component. It also has a patriotism component in which the Pledge of Allegiance is frequently recited and the US Flag is honored. If you don't like those things, don't join. Once you do join, don't try and change these things just because you don't like them.

 

We spend entirely too much time in this country catering to and trying to satisfy tiny groups of people who add nothing to our society and do almost nothing but complain.

So people who are without religion add nothing to our society? I find that rather myopic and, to be frank, a ridiculous statement. Tell that to 93% of the National Academy of Sciences. Surely they add something to our society? Or how about the 99.8% of our prison population which claim to be religious. Surely they are adding benefit to society.

I am not advocating this be overlooked. Policy is policy and if he blatantly states he's atheist then he doesn't meet the requirements. But scouting around the world, both boy and girl, is losing the religious requirements thereof. The global population is growing more secular. Just because something has been done for 105 years doesn't mean it is the best way to do it.

http://national.deseretnews.com/article/449/boy-scouts-remove-god-from-oath-in-uk-welcome-atheists-to-the-ranks.html

If it's good enough for the scouts in the country that founded the movement we're based on, why isn't it good enough for us? It's time the BSA moved into this century and realized morality and being a good person does not stem from a base in religion.Look at some of the northern European counties, especially the Scandinavian ones, and you'll find counties with great standards of living and are largely secular.

Policy is policy and you have to judge this youth based on the requirements outlined. I don't advocate breaking the rules though I vehemently disagree with them. If he is deserving of the rank in all ways except this one trivial check box I do not envy being in your position and making this decision. Best of luck to you.

I'm doing some searching for examples of surveys written to gather feedback from parents (and youth) on their perception of the scouting program at the local unit level. I'm not a professional survey writer so I don't want to bias the question phrasing writing them as the cubmaster. Does anyone have examples of surveys they've used in the past, or examples of ones online I can look at?

I tried searching the web but the noise to signal ratio was horrible, and the first half dozen pages of search results here did not show what I was looking for either. Thanks!

Hey, PbW! I considered going to the Lord Baden-Powell University in Camp Lake, WI this coming March. However, I had a prior commitment on that Saturday. The courses look interesting enough and I'm sure you'll learn loads of good stuff to use as a Cubmaster. But, more importantly, I'm sure you'll meet people and learn things from them that aren't necessarily presented in the courses. Likely, the people you meet here will also be moving into Boy Scouting and district level positions along with you--even if in different councils/districts.

 

I guess my one gripe would be that it's all in cabins/lodges. Sure, it's winter in WI but I would much rather see a camping or outdoor aspect to the training. But that's just me!

I forgot how close we live to each other... that's the same one I'm looking at going to. Fortunately I live about 35 minutes from there and my wife's sister lives 5 minutes from it, so I'd either go home or crash at their place. You're right though, camping would have been a nice option.

I went through the course guide and found a lot of classes I'd like to take. Unfortunately I'm planning on moving April 1st and the wife has requested I not take off for a weekend right as we're trying to do that. Looks like I'll have to wait until next year. But with two boys aged 9 and 4, and another baby due in May (don't know the gender) I'll be in scouting for enough years that waiting one won't make a big difference.

Registration for my area's Lord Baden-Powell University 2015 session opens soon. Anyone have experience with this? How useful did you find the programming? Did you go for any of the "degrees"? Is it worth going at the Cubmaster level (I do have intentions of staying on through the troop and district level as my boys age)?

Thank you all for the input. I really appreciate it. I'll take all of this information into consideration as I get next year's program information out to the den leads.

I'm in the same boat as LeCastor. Was inducted in 1991 and was active in the lodge until 1994. Came back as an adult leader in 2012 and only had to pay my $15 annual lodge dues... no reinstatement fee. But like you said, SMMatthew, each lodge is different and you're may have a standing fee in the policy books for this.

I've been the Cubmaster for two different packs. My first pack had dens meeting every week barring holidays and the week of the pack meeting. When I came to this new pack I was told they meet once, maybe twice a month as dens and once as a pack. I know BSA recommends meeting every week, but the JTE requirement is only to meet twice a month plus the pack meeting.

How often does your den meet outside of the monthly pack meeting? What is the total time spent in den meetings monthly? Do you meet every week for one hour. Every other week for two hours? Some other combination of days and times?

Next year will be my second year in this new pack and I personally feel meeting weekly is important for both engagement and routine establishment. I want to set expectations for den leads, but I want to see how others do it before I start putting out my 2015-16 Program Year planning document.

I've seen nothing on my council calendar indicating there will be any training at all. So for me, as a cubmaster, I plan on getting my head around the changes ASAP and holding my own training for my den leads over the summer. It would be nice if national put out a training program for councils to deliver along with the new material so every council did not have to reinvent the wheel.

Maybe I'm missing something due to living in an area with a very low Mormon population... but why does the LDS have a separate / specific training? Do they run a different program than non-LDS units?

The Bear den in my pack is way behind on their rank progress this year and the leader is now unable to run regular meetings (he's been doing ad hoc "when he has time" meetings this whole year... hence them being behind). I'm supposed to be meeting him for dinner in the next week to get the rest of the year planned out. I think this is a really great idea. I am concerned, like blw2 said, that their night will come up and they'll cancel... but hopefully that's few and far between.

When I was my son's DL I decided I didn't really want to "teach" the religious requirements. I was prepared to do so but personally I thought those were best completed by each family within their faith tradition and choice. Don't know if I had any atheists (I doubt it, probably more agnostic or just not a lot of thought altogether but I digress) but I know I had a gamut from regular church attenders, strong in their chosen faith, to folks who probably were not so. I just didn't see this as the forum to make folks uncomfortable so I gave the parents a choice. I spelled out the requirements, said if you tell e you completed as a family I will take it as complete, otherwise I would conduct a meeting to accomplish w/in my faith and traditions (not signing up for a comparative religions course).

 

My families took care of the requirements themselves which I felt was more than acceptable, particularly for Cub Scuts

As cubmaster that's how I've asked the DLs in my pack to run it. Let the families manage the religious achievement requirements on their own, but make it clear that they need to do it. So far it's worked out well and no DL has had to manage the complexity of ten different religious practices.

I've seen the argument made that doing these things in a den is a great way for the boys to learn of other faiths than their own, but I've also heard the counter argument that 1-5th grade isn't the time to be teaching Comparative Religions 101. Hence I've kept it out of the program run by the pack.

My father in law earned his eagle in the 60's and just a few years ago finally figured out why he's felt slightly off of center his whole life. He came out to his daughters as transgendered. I feel no less respect for the man than I did before he came to understand himself. I really hate how gender identity and sexuality are hyperlinked to morality in this country. Who you choose for a partner has no bearing on your morality or worth as a human being. It's certainly not worth shaking a head at.

Edit: To clarify my point... Shiff stated that he didn't know Jenner was transgendered and posted this because of other reasons he felt Jenner had lost his way. I wasn't intending my rant at Schiff about it. More a general statement on society in the US. Maybe not in my neck of the woods here in the burbs of Chicago... but hard to deny it exists.

Maybe I'm not long enough in the tooth to understand the reference. Why is this image head shake worthy?

Your thinking is correct. However' date=' I do think they can wear pins on the hat if they want to.[/quote']

 

Thank you!

 

I would wait until they move up in June to buy anything since everything Cub Scout changes to the new program June 1st.

 

I was under the impression from reading the new program material that current Webelos-I boys had the option of continuing on to Webelos-II using the current AoL requirements. Current Bears going into Webelos-I next year (as is the case for my son) will have to use the new program.

 

If this isn't the case I have a lot of learning and knowledge sharing to do in the next 6-8 months.

While I am the cubmaster for the unit, my oldest son is only a Bear this year so my in-depth familiarity with the Webelos program is limited to when I was that rank back in the 80s. The question is on when do they earn certain pieces of their advancement bling.

• Do they get their shoulder colors as they graduate from Bear to Webelos, or is that earned after they earn their Webelos rank in Webelos-I?
  
• They have to earn three activity pins to get their rank, so if they do not have colors already how do they display them (on their hat is what I've read, but that sounds sketchy).
  
• Are they awarded those pins while working towards their rank, or do they get their Webelos badge and all pins earned up to that point at once?
  

My thought is they would be given their hat, neckerchief, slide, book, and colors as they transition from Bear to Webelos-I. As they earn their required pins they get put them on the colors. Later in that program year they would earn their rank badge and continue working on pins for AoL. Is this correct?

Thank you for your time!

I feel your pain, though not to the same extent. I'm the cubmaster for a medium sized pack (rechartered 49 boys) and we, like a lot of units, use popcorn sales to drive our budget. We try to do as much with that money as we can, but some things do have additional costs not part of that.

For example, I'm running monthly workshops to help boys earn their Sport and Academic Pins since they are going away. This program was not in the budget for the year and with about 40 boys each month coming to the workshops that's just shy of $200/m for awards and materials. When I introduced the parents to the program I said it would be $5 per boy per workshop.

You'd have thought I held a gun to their head and asked for their wallets with all the pushback I got. Did I mention that this pack is based out of and has 95% of our membership from an expensive private catholic school? They'll pay out their butt for private school because they want a good program for their boys, but ask them to put a few bucks into their kids scouting experience and all of a sudden we're running an inefficient and expensive program. Did I also mention that over 25% of the families did not sell one piece of popcorn this year to help with our costs?

Asking you to put out $1300 is asinine. You have every reason to be frustrated.

I'd say wear it. It's a formal occasion, so from a uniform standpoint it's appropriate. And he's trying to garner interest in the OA to a new troop, so they kids should see it. I've often been asked by parents in my pack what that pocket flap is for, and when I tell them about the OA they always seem to be in favor of it.

Some people here seem to be very against adults having too many patches and stuff on the uniforms. I'm of the opinion that showing an active uniform can both get the kids interested in having stuff on theirs and indicates to parents you might have a clue about this scouting thing.

So I'm in my first year with a new pack as their Cubmaster (was CM for another pack for a couple years but my son switched schools and hence packs). I've encouraged all the DLs to use segments to awards the boys for things they do at their meetings.

For example, my the Bear Den just did the opening/closing flag ceremonies for the city council meeting where our pack is located.I mentioned to the DL (as my son is a Bear) that he should contact that advancement chair (who just quit on me today, no idea why) and have the boys given the American Flag segment. It never occurred to him to reward the boys for both learning the proper flag ceremony and performing it for an official civic meeting.

Our Tiger DL is gung-ho about segments and has her boys earning two or more a month. No other DL seems to give half a poop about recognizing what the boys are doing. Without taking over and micro-managing each den's activities so I can decide what segments to award to boys based on their work... how can I get the DLs to all agree that segments are good to give out and should be used liberally?