EagleScout441

Wow.

 

You have "researched" all (you feel) there is to know about Venturing, and yet have no knowledge of the basic rules and reg of your own Scouting program?

 

Somehow I thought an Eagle, even an immature 15 year old Eagle, would be, at least vaguely, concerned about following the rules.

 

Guess not.

 

However, not to let him off the hook, but it seems that this is the kind of thing that has been modeled, and encouraged, by his Troop. What a shame.

Thank you, last year we had a youth teach Wilderness Survival MB, he was not the one putting down the signatures, but he informed the adult(counselor) about whether or not the scouts had completed the requirements: i.e. he checked everybody's survival kits, he made sure everyone started their fires without matches/lighters.

This is the method by which my troop is allowing me to teach the Chess MB.

"even an immature 15 year old Eagle"

I take offence to that.

KDD, as I have already said, I'm not the one signing off the requirements, I am simply reporting to an adult("counselor") what each scout has done and he signs it off if he thinks it is sufficient.

I'm the only one in my troop that actually has the knowledge regarding chess to teach this MB. I am teaching it, and if I say that a scout has completed the requirement than it gets signed off and put into the computer.

"Requirement 2b: discuss sportsmanship: I define sportsmanship and then give/ask for examples."

This is the basic form by which I would complete the "discuss" requirements. As far as requirement 3 goes almost every scout already knows how to play chess(except for en passant), requirement 3 is chess rules. Then they would one on one pretend to teach me the rules.

The "demonstrate" requirements must be demonstrated, otherwise it won't count.

I am simply doing the same thing he did. If youth leadership can sign off on rank requirements what is wrong with merit badges?

I'm the only one in my troop that actually has the knowledge regarding chess to teach this MB. I am teaching it, and if I say that a scout has completed the requirement than it gets signed off and put into the computer.

"Requirement 2b: discuss sportsmanship: I define sportsmanship and then give/ask for examples."

This is the basic form by which I would complete the "discuss" requirements. As far as requirement 3 goes almost every scout already knows how to play chess(except for en passant), requirement 3 is chess rules. Then they would one on one pretend to teach me the rules.

The "demonstrate" requirements must be demonstrated, otherwise it won't count.

Unless you have 100% buy in from the troop don't do it during Troop the meeting.....But offer it before or after the meeting.......

 

In looking at the requirements I have no idea how you would do most of it other than one on one.

 

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Chess I know not the official source but close enough for my purposes.

 

 

Lots of discuss and demonstrate......Not exactly sure how you would do that in a quality manner in a group setting.

Requirement 2b: discuss sportsmanship: I define sportsmanship and then give/ask for examples.

Unless you have 100% buy in from the troop don't do it during Troop the meeting.....But offer it before or after the meeting.......

 

In looking at the requirements I have no idea how you would do most of it other than one on one.

 

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Chess I know not the official source but close enough for my purposes.

 

 

Lots of discuss and demonstrate......Not exactly sure how you would do that in a quality manner in a group setting.

This November I will be teaching the Chess merit badge for my troop. I am the only one in my troop who has it. During free time at summer camp there is generally always somebody playing chess, so pretty much everybody knows how to play already. Having gone to tournaments and chess club before I joined scouts, I am familiar with tournament play, chess clocks, notation, and rules such as en passant. I'm not the first youth in my troop to teach a merit badge, we had a 16 year old teach the Wilderness Survival merit badge last year. Any advice on teaching? I've never done any group teaching before, it has always been one on one instruction on knots, orienteering, etc.

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

Chill out, besides, how do you know that the new awards will be a train wreck? You're just speculating, all we know about them is the concept and the format.

Right now the only thing that is a standard in the whole Venturing program is the award system, they are 1. Trying to reorganize part of the award system so that Venturers might actually earn the awards. 2. They trying to unify Venturers by at least having them wear the same Class A uniform, Venturers can design all the Class B's they want.

From your first comment above I thought that you were saying that Venturers in your crew didn't like the Bronze awards, and by the way, the Bronze in Sports is required for Quest, and the Bronze in Religious Life is required for TRUST, and the Outdoor Bronze is completely finished automatically if the Ranger award is earned.

I might not have earned any of these awards, but I know a lot more about them than pretty much any Venturer. Just like I know more about the Hornaday awards than the majority of Boy Scouts. I've done my research.

"he is a bit of a fanatic about Venturing"

Well, considering fanatic means "filled with "great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective," " I'd have to agree with you, I'll take that as a complement.

My membership might not be official, but I already know which crew I'm going to join and what I plan on focusing on. I like to know exactly what I'm getting into before I join, hence my knowledge regarding the awards.

Hello from TN. I've been down to Florida several times, may I ask where in Florida you're from?

"My emergency plan is to roll over, fall through the screen and bounce on my face... "

lol

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

I have abandoned my argument in favor of Venturers joining the OA now that I have been informed of this: http://www.venturingcorps.com/

Above I posted this:

"They need to set themselves apart, not emulate and adopt Boy Scout programs. Doing that will make them irrelevant."

Well, since I know one of the Area Presidents, maybe I should attempt to create an honor society for Venturing."

Since I have been informed by E92 about the Corps of Discovery I reject this comment and quote and replace it with this: Since I know one of the Venturing Area Presidents I will attempt to form a CoD group within the Middle Tennessee Council. Also, since I can find no trace of a VOA within the MTC I will attempt to form one of those as well.

Actually the Corps of Discovery is an unofficial Venturing Honor Society that is starting to takeoff. http://www.venturingcorps.com/

 

Sea Scouts in SR7 have created the Order of the Golden Dragons. http://sasserrc.tripod.com/cardinalwardroom/id37.htm

It's sad that a lot of Venturers don't want to earn the awards. Who wouldn't like to have a nice shiny medal hanging on their uniform? Apparently, a lot of Venturers don't.

I guess most Boy Scouts are so tired of working on rank requirements that by the time they go to Venturing they just don't care about them anymore. Of course, ranks are, to an extent, required in the Boy Scouts. Comparing percentages between Boy Scout ranks and Venturing awards isn't really fair, they should be comparing percentages of the Boy Scout Hornaday and National Outdoor awards with the Venturing awards.

And when it comes to the new awards, the first "level" in each "pillar" will be very simple. But I'm sure that the upper levels will be just as or more complex than the current Gold and Silver awards.

Whoa' date=' whoa, whoa, slow down. Here is what I think about it: The co-ed programs shouldn't be under the title of the BSA, just like the Girl Scouts have their own program, co-ed groups should do the same. The other option is to have SUSA, Scouts of the United States of America, and have three divisions: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Scouts(co-ed). The OA could then either be an honor society for all scouts, or stay a Boy Scout program. But if it stays a Boy Scout/Varsity Scout only program, why doesn't each division of Scouting get it's own honor society? The Girl Scouts don't have one and the only Venturers that are part of the OA are former Boy Scouts.[/quote']

 

 

 

 

BSA and GSUSA are two different programs independent of each other. You can't have SUSA organization with boy scouts, girl scouts and coed scouts. Well, you can....but BSA and GSUSA won't allow you to use their names of "boy scouts" and "girl scouts". You'd have to call them something else. And since they aren't part of BSA, OA would not be available to them. As far as why each division doesn't have their own honor society, I'd suggest you do some research on the OA. It was started by a camp director at a single Boy Scout summer camp. The idea spread to other camps. It was run outside the BSA. BSA did not adopt the OA as part of the program until something like the 40's if I recall correctly. OA started in 1915. A less known Bot Scout honor society called Mic-O-Say still exists in some councils, but is not an official part of BSA like OA is. If Venturing wants to start an honor society, a model already exists dating back to 1915. Someone needs to start one, promote it to crews in other councils and try and make it grow. If it is popular enough and grows enough, BSA might adopt it like they did OA. I'll stand on my original post, Boy Scouts and Venturing are two different programs. If Venturing gloms onto Boy Scouts, it does itself a disservice and blurs what it could become. They need to set themselves apart, not emulate and adopt Boy Scout programs. Doing that will make them irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

And as far as SUSA goes, I'm talking about joining the BSA and the GSUSA organizations together.

"They need to set themselves apart, not emulate and adopt Boy Scout programs. Doing that will make them irrelevant."

Well, since I know one of the Area Presidents, maybe I should attempt to create an honor society for Venturing.

Whoa' date=' whoa, whoa, slow down. Here is what I think about it: The co-ed programs shouldn't be under the title of the BSA, just like the Girl Scouts have their own program, co-ed groups should do the same. The other option is to have SUSA, Scouts of the United States of America, and have three divisions: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Scouts(co-ed). The OA could then either be an honor society for all scouts, or stay a Boy Scout program. But if it stays a Boy Scout/Varsity Scout only program, why doesn't each division of Scouting get it's own honor society? The Girl Scouts don't have one and the only Venturers that are part of the OA are former Boy Scouts.[/quote']

 

 

 

 

BSA and GSUSA are two different programs independent of each other. You can't have SUSA organization with boy scouts, girl scouts and coed scouts. Well, you can....but BSA and GSUSA won't allow you to use their names of "boy scouts" and "girl scouts". You'd have to call them something else. And since they aren't part of BSA, OA would not be available to them. As far as why each division doesn't have their own honor society, I'd suggest you do some research on the OA. It was started by a camp director at a single Boy Scout summer camp. The idea spread to other camps. It was run outside the BSA. BSA did not adopt the OA as part of the program until something like the 40's if I recall correctly. OA started in 1915. A less known Bot Scout honor society called Mic-O-Say still exists in some councils, but is not an official part of BSA like OA is. If Venturing wants to start an honor society, a model already exists dating back to 1915. Someone needs to start one, promote it to crews in other councils and try and make it grow. If it is popular enough and grows enough, BSA might adopt it like they did OA. I'll stand on my original post, Boy Scouts and Venturing are two different programs. If Venturing gloms onto Boy Scouts, it does itself a disservice and blurs what it could become. They need to set themselves apart, not emulate and adopt Boy Scout programs. Doing that will make them irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

GSUSA is the female scouting organization of the USA, it is basically the same as the Boy Scouts other than the fact that it is all female. I have also heard of GSUSA troops going on trips/outing with BSA troops.

WOW how some people forget History of Scouts and can't put two and two together and can't come up with 4.

Try Connecting the Dots maybe or Maybe some Scouting History Lessons are in Order

Boy Scouts created and In their original conceptions, Life Scout, Star Scout(Life preceded Star until 1924) and Eagle Scout were not ranks, but part of the merit badge system that recognized Scouts who had earned a specified number of merit badges. Eagle Scout was awarded to any First Class Scout who had earned 21 merit badges.

 

Order of the Arrow was Created in 1915...and Membership Requirements remain the same today as they Did in 1915...They required the Youth Membership to have Obtained the HIGHEST RANK POSSIBLE in 1915... rank requirement of First Class.

Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts ( LDS VERSION OF A BOY SCOUT) are the same program basically.

 

The "Order of the Arrow" is the honor society of the Boy Scouts of America, intended to recognize older scouts in their teens who best exemplify the scout virtues of cheerful service, camping, and leadership. It was not nor is it a CAMPING SOCIETY

 

Explorers/Venture Crews did not exist back then..have ya connected the Dots Yet

BOY SCOUTS have resisted Change..

 

Should Today's OA require it Youth Membership also Achieve the Highest Rank. Based on the history of having to have acheived the highest Rank possible back then

Since Explorers and Venture Crews are not Considered "Boy Scouts" should they have to pay "Boy Scout Registration Fees" to the "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA"

Why are Cub Scouts and Venture Crews Required to Learn the BOY SCOUT OATH AND THE SCOUT LAW Next year...Will Females be EXEMPT from Those Requirements since they Are not Allowed to be Elected into OA?

Why can't a Youth simply "Better serve his Unit" no matter if it is a Post, Troop, Crew or Ship?

WOW how some people forget History of Scouts and can't put two and two together and can't come up with 4.

Try Connecting the Dots maybe or Maybe some Scouting History Lessons are in Order

Boy Scouts created and In their original conceptions, Life Scout, Star Scout(Life preceded Star until 1924) and Eagle Scout were not ranks, but part of the merit badge system that recognized Scouts who had earned a specified number of merit badges. Eagle Scout was awarded to any First Class Scout who had earned 21 merit badges.

 

Order of the Arrow was Created in 1915...and Membership Requirements remain the same today as they Did in 1915...They required the Youth Membership to have Obtained the HIGHEST RANK POSSIBLE in 1915... rank requirement of First Class.

Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts ( LDS VERSION OF A BOY SCOUT) are the same program basically.

 

The "Order of the Arrow" is the honor society of the Boy Scouts of America, intended to recognize older scouts in their teens who best exemplify the scout virtues of cheerful service, camping, and leadership. It was not nor is it a CAMPING SOCIETY

 

Explorers/Venture Crews did not exist back then..have ya connected the Dots Yet

BOY SCOUTS have resisted Change..

 

Should Today's OA require it Youth Membership also Achieve the Highest Rank. Based on the history of having to have acheived the highest Rank possible back then

Since Explorers and Venture Crews are not Considered "Boy Scouts" should they have to pay "Boy Scout Registration Fees" to the "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA"

Why are Cub Scouts and Venture Crews Required to Learn the BOY SCOUT OATH AND THE SCOUT LAW Next year...Will Females be EXEMPT from Those Requirements since they Are not Allowed to be Elected into OA?

When I was a kid, our troop was known for its "hammock boys," so a few years ago I went out and bought one o give the boys a laugh and maybe some inspiration. The first night I slept in it, I actually ended up on a picnic table to do the sleeping. The second time, I finally managed maybe 3 hours of sleep. 3rd time I was so kinked-up and stiff the whole next day I wanted to die. 4th time I said bollocks and it's been in its package since.

I don't think they should let anime, theater, etc., crews into the OA. The majority of crews in my council are outdoor crews who actually wear the uniform and a few of them frequently do joint trips with troops or ships in the area, so from my perspective, Venturing is basically upgraded Boy Scouts.

National says that the program is struggling, but they are the reason that it is struggling. The only people that know what Venturing is are already in scouts and have already found a Boy Scout/Girl Scout troop that they like and don't want to make a transition to Venturing when they are acting as leaders in their troop. And comparing percentages for Boy Scout ranks and Venturing awards isn't really fair, they should be comparing the percentages of Venturing awards with the Boy Scout Hornaday and National Outdoor awards.And as far as optional uniforms goes, I still think that it's pathetic. Someone joins a Venturing Crew and they're not willing to pay $50 for a uniform? Really?

"But why don't we just cut to the chase, sundown Venturing and all the overhead and expense of a struggling program and make Boy Scouts coed? Do that and girls can become Eagles, be elected to OA, go to Jamborees, etc. Problem solved."

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. Here is what I think about it: The co-ed programs shouldn't be under the title of the BSA, just like the Girl Scouts have their own program, co-ed groups should do the same. The other option is to have SUSA, Scouts of the United States of America, and have three divisions: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Scouts(co-ed). The OA could then either be an honor society for all scouts, or stay a Boy Scout program. But if it stays a Boy Scout/Varsity Scout only program, why doesn't each division of Scouting get it's own honor society? The Girl Scouts don't have one and the only Venturers that are part of the OA are former Boy Scouts.

And the Leadership Awards are just awards, not an honor society(or as you call them "a fairly elite club") like the OA or the NESA.

BTW, I'm talking about the Venturing Class A uniform, the shirt by itself without the patches is $40.

I would have liked it if you had made your poll a yes or no vote. Yes to include Venturing, no to keep it just Boy Scouts. I voted the option of "I don't care", but I do care. Boy Scouts and Venturing are both BSA programs, and they share many of the same goals.......but they are very different programs. That isn't to say that there are not youth in Venturing who are worthy of being recognized for their selfless service, they just aren't eligible because they aren't Boy Scouts. Venturing doesn't even have to be outdoor oriented. It always dumbfounds me that we have two divergent programs that people keep wanting to bring back together. Venturing is the un-scout program.....and I don't mean that as an offense. Let me explain. There are folks and boys out there that complained about uniforms, ranks, POR's, all that stuffy structure and the exclusion of girls. So what does BSA do? THey develop a program that is coed, uniform optional, advancement optional and a loose structure that can encompass many a program emphasis. And what happens? They want to be Boy Scouts and go to Jamborees, high adventure bases, summer camp, OA, etc. I'm not against the Venturing program, I'm really not. But why don't we just cut to the chase, sundown Venturing and all the overhead and expense of a struggling program and make Boy Scouts coed? Do that and girls can become Eagles, be elected to OA, go to Jamborees, etc. Problem solved.

WOW how some people forget History of Scouts and can't put two and two together and can't come up with 4.

Try Connecting the Dots maybe or Maybe some Scouting History Lessons are in Order

Boy Scouts created and In their original conceptions, Life Scout, Star Scout(Life preceded Star until 1924) and Eagle Scout were not ranks, but part of the merit badge system that recognized Scouts who had earned a specified number of merit badges. Eagle Scout was awarded to any First Class Scout who had earned 21 merit badges.

 

Order of the Arrow was Created in 1915...and Membership Requirements remain the same today as they Did in 1915...They required the Youth Membership to have Obtained the HIGHEST RANK POSSIBLE in 1915... rank requirement of First Class.

Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts ( LDS VERSION OF A BOY SCOUT) are the same program basically.

 

The "Order of the Arrow" is the honor society of the Boy Scouts of America, intended to recognize older scouts in their teens who best exemplify the scout virtues of cheerful service, camping, and leadership. It was not nor is it a CAMPING SOCIETY

 

Explorers/Venture Crews did not exist back then..have ya connected the Dots Yet

BOY SCOUTS have resisted Change..

 

Should Today's OA require it Youth Membership also Achieve the Highest Rank. Based on the history of having to have acheived the highest Rank possible back then

Since Explorers and Venture Crews are not Considered "Boy Scouts" should they have to pay "Boy Scout Registration Fees" to the "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA"

Why are Cub Scouts and Venture Crews Required to Learn the BOY SCOUT OATH AND THE SCOUT LAW Next year...Will Females be EXEMPT from Those Requirements since they Are not Allowed to be Elected into OA?

I would have liked it if you had made your poll a yes or no vote. Yes to include Venturing, no to keep it just Boy Scouts. I voted the option of "I don't care", but I do care. Boy Scouts and Venturing are both BSA programs, and they share many of the same goals.......but they are very different programs. That isn't to say that there are not youth in Venturing who are worthy of being recognized for their selfless service, they just aren't eligible because they aren't Boy Scouts. Venturing doesn't even have to be outdoor oriented. It always dumbfounds me that we have two divergent programs that people keep wanting to bring back together. Venturing is the un-scout program.....and I don't mean that as an offense. Let me explain. There are folks and boys out there that complained about uniforms, ranks, POR's, all that stuffy structure and the exclusion of girls. So what does BSA do? THey develop a program that is coed, uniform optional, advancement optional and a loose structure that can encompass many a program emphasis. And what happens? They want to be Boy Scouts and go to Jamborees, high adventure bases, summer camp, OA, etc. I'm not against the Venturing program, I'm really not. But why don't we just cut to the chase, sundown Venturing and all the overhead and expense of a struggling program and make Boy Scouts coed? Do that and girls can become Eagles, be elected to OA, go to Jamborees, etc. Problem solved.