EagleScout441

It is an excerpt from the speech "Citizenship in a Republic", delivered by "Teddy" Roosevelt at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on April 23, 1910.

 

Adults have a role as resources.

 

If adults exclude youth from being allowed to teach, including stretching a bit, that's not helpful. My first Scoutmaster always had youth member of his Scoutmaster Basic Training staffs because: 1) They could do it; 2) They liked to do it; and 3) They helped sell adults on the concept that youth could handle responsibility. If you honestly believed in the Patrol Method, how could you not see youth as staff?

I think you're making qwazse's point for him. And I agree. We have youth that staff Wood Badge every fall, and hopefully I'll be one of them this year.

And the Patrol Method fine, but it only works the way it's supposed to when the Scouts have a certain mindset.

Patrols make up a Troop, which means the patrol members, especially the patrol leaders, need to realize, that in the end, everybody is on the same team. Unity needs to be an emphasis.

People also need to realize that just because someone has the title of a leadership position, that doesn't necessarily make them a leader or give them leadership experience.

And in the end, aren't we all on the same team?

The reason we youth enjoyed these classes is because they were actually relevant to what we are doing. Three of the classes I took were "Beyond BSA," "Planning Meaningful Service Projects," and "The Changing Venturing Program: What's Up?"

"Beyond BSA" was a guide to awards outside of Scouting that have requirements relevant to Scouts. Such as the Presidential Service Award, which is awarded for completing a certain number of service hours.

"Planning Meaningful Service Projects" was a class on, you guessed it, service projects. From planning to execution. This class was not incredibly helpful to me since I just did my Eagle Project last year.

"The Changing Venturing Program: What's Up?" was a class on how the Venturing program is being changed, and when we can expect these changes to come into effect here in the Middle Tennessee Council.

Scouter99 said

"If either of you two think the answer to older youth retention is access to classroom training I dare say neither of you knows anything about retaining youth of any age. "

That is both correct and incorrect. Access to classroom training is not the sole answer to retaining older youth, but when the training provided is as relevant and helpful as the above classes, it sure doesn't hurt, rather, it helps us to become more involved than we already are.

Hey! Another youth member! Yeah!

Welcome to the forum!

I never thought about it like that, qwazse. Thanks

Awesome! I honestly don't think they intentionally exclude youth. The program objective targets adults to be as knowledgeable about scouting as possible because adults often don't realize they have more to learn, so "scouter" was used in the description of the requirements. But if a youth took the same number of UoS courses -- especially if they weren't all courses geared toward youth (like ILSC, which in a perfect world would always be done at a crew level), I'm sure your course organizers would have no trouble giving him/her a certificate as well.

Bottom line: don't feel put off by seemingly exclusionary language. Venturers have boundary issues. Everybody with any time in scouting knows that. Any commissioner would find the "problem" of an ambitious youth a good one to have!

This year's UoS was back on March 15.

Here is a link to the Course Catalog which includes the Degree information:

http://www.mtcbsa.org/assets/forms/UOS.pdf

All classes in the "College of Venturing" were open to youth, except for the "Leader Forum."

The "Bachelor Degree" requirements state that a one must participate in six hours of courses at UoS and be current on their training for the position they are in.

As you can see by the Course Catalog, anyone who attends the full day at UoS will have the six hour requirement complete, the training requirement varies depending on the Scout/Scouter.

Not a single youth member, even if they attended the full day (as I did), received any sort of degree. The question of "Why?" was asked by multiple youth, the answer given was that youth were not eligible.

Now, we did receive a patch. And we also each received a fancy certificate stating that we had completed "Venturing Academy" (which looks very nice on the wall next to my Eagle Scout and Kodiak certificates).

But the question still stands: Why are youth not eligible for the degrees?

E441, I'm really glad you (and presumably others in your crew) took advantage of UoS. I've only been able to get a couple of youth involved. I especially hope that during breaks, you offered your service as "graders" of the Dutch Oven course.

 

In principle, I think ambitious youth should be awarded accordingly. But, I would rather them get their certifications outside of the "One Day Scouting" framework. For example, I've had very bad experience transferring the CPR course I took at UoS to what I needed for BSA guard re-certification. (They didn't confirm that the medic they got to teach the course had authority from Red Cross to issue cards!) I would hate for that to happen to a youth!

 

For me, UoS degrees are a big joke, but the networking helps me be better advisor even if I don't get the pieces of paper (I can volunteer in other ways that don't need them). For youth, I would rather them work on "real world" certifications that they can be sure apply to jobs they want or schools they'd like to attend.

We had about 15 youth from around the Council attend, three from my crew (the three were siblings). None of us acted as "graders" in the Dutch Oven course, but a couple of the 18-20 year old "youth" Venturers were in staff positions.

It isn't really the fact that I want a UoS "degree", but it is the idea that Venturing youth are not eligible, just because we're youth, when we do classes just like any of the adults.

I thought we dropped the silliness of beaded noobs claiming to have a Phd in Scouting years ago?

Evidently not.

I don't know how it is in other Councils, but here in the Middle Tennessee Council, we have University of Scouting. UoS offers many adult trainings, and in the MTC they have classes for Venturing youth members. I attended UoS as a Venturer last month. Now obviously, the Doctorate Degree recipient must be at least 18 years of age, because they must complete Wood Badge. But should they continue to exclude Venturing youth from being able to receive the Bachelors and Masters Degrees?

UoS also has "Degrees" that may be earned by participants:

"Bachelors Degree Requirements

Scouters must earn at least six credit hours from the courses offered in UoS. Any combination of courses from the four colleges is acceptable.

Scouters must be trained in their registered position.

Masters Degree Requirementsï‚·

Scouters must have earned a UoS Bachelor degree. ï‚·

Scouters must earn an additional six credit hours since earning their Bachelor degree.

Doctorate Degree Requirements

Scouters must have completed a UoS Master degree.

Scouters must have earned their Wood Badge beads (please display to UoS Chancellor) or submit an application after earning your beads.

Scouters must earn an additional six credit hours since earning their Master degree, including at least three credits from the teaching requirement, below.

Scouters must teach University of Scouting courses totaling three credit hours since earning their Master degree or, with the approval of the current UoS Chancellor, serve on the UoS Staff. "

Now obviously, the Doctorate Degree recipient must be at least 18 years of age, because they must complete Wood Badge. But should they continue to exclude Venturing youth from being able to receive the Bachelors and Masters Degrees?

Scoutlander.com is an excellent program for Troop/Crew/Unit websites. It also has a email broadcast system, as well as "photo albums".

Here is a link to my Troop website:

http://www.scoutlander.com/publicsite/unithome.aspx?UID=12706

The photo, etc. pages, are all members only.

One of the problems with the no-phones policy is that they aren't just phones anymore. We have several families in our pack where the only camera they own are in their phones. Is it OK for the scouts to want to take photos of the fun they are having? Then they need access to their "phones". I was told about a scout in a troop that had a dozen nature and history books on his phone and used them to identify plants, animals and read up on the history of the area they are in.

 

When you say "no-phones", to many scouts you are also saying "no cameras" and to some "no books". Like any tool, cell phones can be used improperly. I think the trick is to find a balance, not just say "no". What that balance is depends on your unit and scouts.

Our Troop policy is no electronics, period. But this rule hardly gets enforced. On the monthly outings, there aren't usually electronics (phones, mp3 players, etc.), but if they are brought, they tend to stay in backpacks, pockets, or tents. At Summer Camp, this rule is neglected even more, most Scouts will bring their phones. But it hasn't been a problem while I've been in the Troop. I have been to Summer Camp three years in a row (2011-2013) and not once have I brought a phone. This year I will, but I'll be there for 5 weeks with a week of NYLT stuck in the middle, because I'll be serving on Staff.

Bottom line, it depends. Some Scouts can't handle a week alone (it's only a week, they should be fine...). I think first year scouts should not be allowed to have cell phones in order to avoid/prevent or keep from worsening homesickness, from calling their parents during camp. But 2nd, 3rd, etc., year Scouts could bring a phone if they want.

In the end, it's the parents' decision.

The Troop can talk all they want, but in the end, it's the parents' decision.

Our Troop policy is no electronics, period. But this rule hardly gets enforced. On the monthly outings, there aren't usually electronics (phones, mp3 players, etc.), but if they are brought, they tend to stay in backpacks, pockets, or tents. At Summer Camp, this rule is neglected even more, most Scouts will bring their phones. But it hasn't been a problem while I've been in the Troop. I have been to Summer Camp three years in a row (2011-2013) and not once have I brought a phone. This year I will, but I'll be there for 5 weeks with a week of NYLT stuck in the middle, because I'll be serving on Staff.

Bottom line, it depends. Some Scouts can't handle a week alone (it's only a week, they should be fine...). I think first year scouts should not be allowed to have cell phones in order to avoid/prevent or keep from worsening homesickness, from calling their parents during camp. But 2nd, 3rd, etc., year Scouts could bring a phone if they want.

In the end, it's the parents' decision.

Why exactly does a Eagle BOR have to approve the project? Other than a 45 minute meeting with one Council representative to explain the project and get approval, mine was done completely at a Troop level.

We never did songs in my Troop, but it's a common occurrence in Venturing.

I believe a bird house would satisfy the "sanctuary" option.

But here is what I did for the requirement: http://www.pbs.org/parents/curiousge...irdfeeder.html

Simple, but effective.

You don't like the BSA. We know. Put your son in TrailLife, get over it and let it go.

Interesting....

http://godfatherpolitics.com/12479/trail-life-usa-new-alternative-boy-scouts-will-also-admit-gays/

I recommend Boxwell Reservation in Lebanon, TN. It's on Old Hickory Lake. I'm staffing this year.

Trying to scare me out of NYLT this summer?

 

Luckily, I've never had an experience even close to that. I'm with Sentinel on this one: "Where was the Advisor????"

My question is, where were any adults in general?

I would have gone to NYLT last year, but it was the same week as my Troop's Summer Camp. So I chose Kodiak instead. This year, I'm serving on staff at Summer Camp and going to NYLT.

Trying to scare me out of NYLT this summer?

Luckily, I've never had an experience even close to that. I'm with Sentinel on this one: "Where was the Advisor????"

My question is, where were any adults in general?

There is a Troop in my District that requires Scouts to do the requirements in order. In other words, they won't allow a Life Scout to start his Project until his MBs and PoR requirements are completed (or so I've been told, that is).

There is a Troop in my District that requires Scouts to do the requirements in order. In other words, they won't allow a Life Scout to start his Project until his MBs and PoR requirements are completed (or so I've been told, that is).

I was never in Cub Scouts and don't know much about it.

The Boy Scouts who are unwelcoming towards parents trying to volunteer, are they Scouts (youth) or Scouters (adults)?

These two are both Eagle Scout specific:

Wings Upon My Chest

http://www.scoutorama.com/song/song_...cfm?song_id=96

Ballad of an Eagle Scout

http://www.scoutorama.com/song/song_...cfm?song_id=45

Then there is my personal favorite, Scout Vespers:

http://www.scoutorama.com/song/song_....cfm?song_id=4