Snow Owl

$34 to join

$12 for Boys' Life

$xx unit join fee

$xx council add on fee

$30/month for camp outs ($300/year)

$200 for summer camp

$87-$134 for Scout uniform

$74-$357 for adult inform

 

When BSA actually adds up all the costs to be a Boy Scout and compares that with select sports, they are actually just as expensive as many sports. So their logic for raising fees is a lie. Supply doesn't operate at a loss, it's paid for through cost recovery and profit from sales.

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia.html

I have posted a similar argument several times.  The total cost for scouting is just as high as other activities.  I'm not saying its not worth it but that BSA needs to stop using that argument.  From a schools prospective, looking at programs, Scouting has a high indirect cost.  leaders, leader training, uniforms, handbooks etc.  It is not like the scout paying the fee is the only cost.

And the notion that they can easily raise the money by selling popcorn is another ridiculous argument.  That is akin to saying the Mercedes is not expensive, you just need a better paying job.

BSA is top heavy, way too many paid professionals.  I would happily pack our SEs boxes for him and load it into the moving van

@@Snow Owl  My troop has always collected dues the calendar year. I haven't heard of many troops around me that follow the academic year.

 So you collect dues in January not Sept or Aug?

Can someone explain to me why we run bsa registration on the calendar year when all of the units and activities operate on the academic year?  Most units have already collected dues for the Scout year so this $9 per scout/Scouter increase is going to be an unexpected expense that has not been collected.

We will be awarding our Troop's first Eagle this year and we are trying to stat some troop traditions.  What are the traditions of your troop concerning the eagles?

does anyone have a copy of the follow-up survey ?

Never mind found it in an earlier post

I will be on staff at the National Jamboree, we are told to have 2 field (class A) uniforms.  I am building/sewing a new shirt and am not sure how to configure it.  I know where things go but not sure which to use.  I know the Scouts and leaders on the contingents have special shoulder CSPs what should staff use?   What is the norm for staff uniforms?  There uniform from their local Troop or a unique uniform for Jamboree? 

I have the Jamboree staff patch that goes above the right pocket.   The various staff assignments have patches, are these for the uniforms or for trading/collecting?

See you at the Jamboree

The soccer for scouting is offensive - the way it was presented in our council was that it is targeted at the Latin/Spanish families.  Apparently people who speak Spanish are not interested in camping, only soccer.  "HispanicInitiatives > Become A Scout > Soccer and Scouting"  the BSA link is http://www.scouting.org/HispanicInitiatives/BecomeAScout/SoccerandScouting.aspx

it is another example of BSA spinning their wheels and spending our money on non-Scouting experiments.

It is about the money - which is why we will see girls in the cubscouts as paying members in 2018.  Pretty much all of the Scout Executives are for it - it gives them a larger pool of potential members and can increase their statistics.  The Paid side of BSA is all about the numbers and, in my opinion, could not care less about the wishes or needs of the units.

If you believe that I've got some swamp land...

Some of happen to like swamp land

The image next to Snow Owl's name is that of a Chartered Organization Representative patch.  I find it ironic that a COR is advocating against the Chartered Organizations.

Just the opposite I am advocating for the Chartered organizations, the local COs.  I must have missed something.

If they drop all programs in Scouting that would be 20% of the total number of Scouts. Given BSA hasn't been able to stem a 3% or 7% drop in membership, what makes you think they can back fill a 20% drop?

I don;t think we will fill that drop. We may need to accept a smaller, but maybe better, organization

Do you have a source for that statement?  I guess I assumed that the LDS church paid the same fees to National, per unit, per youth and per adult registrant, as everybody else.  But we all know what happens when you assume...

The LDS  Scouting Handbook for Church Units  states: 8.2 All registration fees for youth and adults.... are paid directly from Church headquarters to the BSA National Council.  8.3 goes on to say: All fees for chartering, unit liability insurance, and national registration, including fees for those of other faiths....are paid directly from Church headquarters to the BSA National Council.  The Church does not sponsor Scouting for girls or young women.

LDS also pays for uniforms, camp fees, handbooks etc.  * I have found conflicting LDS documents on this it appears there is a distinction between what is paid by LSDS at the national level and the local (stake and ward) level

I read specific language where LDS paid a negotiated fee to BSA   it is stated in the article "The national BSA normally charges a $24 registration fee for each Scout and adult leader per year. However, a 2015 statement from the three BSA councils in Utah says those fees "are negotiated between the national BSA and the LDS Church. All registration fees are retained at the national BSA level."  but I also have read that a few times previously.

I know when I have asked our SE about the LDS units he will not give me any specifics but that is his response to most things unless you are handing him a check.

Go to the actual LDS announcement and follow the various links,  Spend some time reading and I think you can read between the lines, this is about coed.  Look at the offering for boys verses those for girls.  The more I read, and the more links I followed, the more I am convinced BSA may be better off without LDS.

Shrinking the number of high paid professionals has been needed for a very long time.  For a program that states it is "volunteer run" BSA spends huge amounts of money on paid staff that have no contact with scouts (as in the youth).

I have no way of knowing the future, but I know the School that charters my units would drop BSA in a heartbeat if there was even more "supervision" from the corporate side of BSA.  To change a quote from Reagan;  The Professionals are not the solution to Scouting's problems, the Professionals ARE the problem.

I have to agree with DuctTape. It is sad to see so many youth leaving scouting but BSA made far too many accommodations for the LDS units and given the LDS church was too much control or voice in the organization and they pay greatly reduced fees and dues 

We need to refocus and get Scouting back in the hands of the volunteers, the unit level volunteers.  Too many paid scouters are completely out of touch with the units and the non LDS chartered units. 

we do it a bit different but it works.  We have 1 den per rank level.  So we have had a Tiger Den as big as 30.  When we meet they divide into smaller groups. We have multiple den leaders and they would work together.  It prevents one den out performing other dens or one den dying out. I think the days of 6-8 scouts meeting at someone's house is long gone. 

We meet at School as a Pack every two weeks.  We do a mini pack meeting (10 min) then the dens break out to various rooms for 50-60 min.  Once the dens are off in their various spaces/ rooms they will divide up further is needed.

It has worked for us for many years and we are always right under 100 cubs. 

And in the last 100 years, almost every school, college, university and work place has gone co-ed.  Go figure.  

watch, pretty soon they will even let women drive and vote! 

We started with Packmaster for the Cubs and Troopmaster for the Scouts.  We tried Scoutbook and found it lacking and switched back to Packmaster & Troopmaster.  They both have a web version as well as a mobile App.  The Mobile app has been a real game changer.  Our council requires all advancement to be entered through the BSA internet advancement and will not allow us to purchase rank without proof we used it.  Packmaster and Troopmaster have an export feature that works fine to get the information to the BSA internet advancement

We have a bit of an odd setup in that we also use SOAR to host our websites. 

Does he realize that he needs you to make his goals? What a moron.

He is spearheading a giant Scout Reach & Soccer for Scouts initiative (as in $260K!) and is only focused on new units and new scouts.  If the existing units are not part of the push, he has no interest in them.

He has a plan to make himself rise and shine with a huge growth in numbers.  The new Units and Scouts for the underserved markets, the council will pay their dues, buy their uniforms and provide para professionals to be the leaders (i.e. paid Pack & Troop leaders - not parent volunteers).  These units and Scouts will only exists while the money lasts, so maybe 2 years, then after he is moved up the ranks and gone, the majority of these subsidized units will fold.

Our council has been doing a much smaller version of this for years. ($60-$75K)  For one unit the council actually provided transportation to get the scouts to and from the meetings as well as covering ALL costs.  Once the funding /subsidized period ended, the unit, the scouts, and all the equipment was never seen again.

They have said for decades that they exist to support the volunteer.   With exceptions, they believe, and operate as if, they are totally in charge.  I have seen written statements by SEs of that latter view.

Our newish SE told us it was his way or the highway. 

Our council (1) manages our 3 or 4 council camps, (2) maintains our 3 or 4 council camps, (3) provides training resources and opportunities for both adults and youth, (4) provides a useful interface with the national organization for the Eagle Scout application process, (5) helps manage maintain online advancement records, (6) supports the OA chapter with facilities and resources, (6) performs some useful dispute resolution services from time to time, (7) before 4/1, provided us tour permits that national required for our outings, (8) interfaces with other organizations (such as the Red Cross) to provide us with additional opportunities.

 

That's what pops off the top of my head.

 

But my council very well may not be representative in that we are the largest council in the country, and that gives us resources and opportunities that other smaller councils might not have.

I would love to see our council do any of those things.

Our council is small and appears to be dying a slow painful death.  Member numbers are declining every year.  5,000 cub scouts, 1600 Boy Scouts and 100 Ventures.  We only have 80 troops in our entire council

I have asked this question before; So why do we need council? Our council does nothing for the established units except ask for money. I wish we could opt out of a council!

We stay becaus we love the program, despite council and the paid folks!

We do not have a lion program, The Tiger dens are enough of a struggle.  Tell the council you are not doing the lion program.  You may want to suggest that you will be skipping the FOS campaign if the Lion information continues to get sent to your school.

We had a similar issue over popcorn,  we opted out of popcorn sales for a year and council sent popcorn order forms to all our scouts.  When they did it the second time we cancelled the FOS campaign.  That got their attention. The professional side only cares about money and numbers. 

I have been a fan of the Eureka timberline for decades and have been using the same one for 20+ years BUT we choose a different tent for the Scouts .  We use the ALPS Meramac 3 for the Scouts - 2 scouts per tent unless we have an odd number then one tent will have 3 scouts.  We use the Meramac 4 for the adults.  The tents are well made, easy to set up and can be purchased at a great discount through hiker direct.  (Meramac 3: $71, Meramac 4: $83)  These are not backpacking tents but are still light enough for even the youngest scout to carry from point to point.  we add an extra ground cloth (thick home depot clear plastic)  under the tent to additionally protect the floor.

I always wear one.  Our Troop is very proud of the necker we designed.  We use the world scouting model and wear the neckers with or without the uniform. 

I always have issue with adult leaders, especially the paid leadership, when they do not wear the proper uniform including a necker.  Our Scout Executive rarely wears a uniform, he normally looks like a used car salesman or a sales guy at a discount store, if he is not proud to be seen in uniform how can we expect it from our Scouts and volunteers?