Snow Owl

I fail to see why all the legal hoopla.  It all belongs to the Troop and in turn to the Chartered Organization.  It was bought or donated under the name of the Patrol, part of the Troop in the name of or for the purpose of Scouting.  Unless otherwise expressly stated (Like Mr. Smith is lending the troop these canoes for a year, or these tents etc.)  it became a donation to the troop as soon as the Patrol pitched in as a patrol as part of a Troop.

The example of the two scouts buying a tent to share together is different in that it is personal gear and they pooled personal money for a personal purchase. Very different than pooling money to purchase a PATROL tent

We have just learned that a long time Scouter, Friend and GREAT guy was killed today by an apparent drive by shooting.  He was outside his home which is at the entrance to the Scout reservation.

The latest story is here:

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/crime_police/article_3cfb3d30-ad32-11e7-9bf1-afc03699a12e.html

Once there is more information I will post it. 

We just bought 10 replacement tents from them last year. We contacted them directly and got a steep discount. Great tents and VERY durable. We have 30 in supply and it is amazing how rugged they are. 11 camp outs a year, loaners for NYLT, OA, high adventure, etc., and they are still going after nine years!!!

Which ALPS tents are you using?

_{Wow all great input - I never thought it through this much.  Our concern was more for summer camp/winter camp and emergency situations when the scouts are all at different programs.  I think part of my concern came from Jambo when there was an issue with "Scouts" going into other tents which should not have been an issue and would not be an issue with just out troop}

_{and I love the response from qwazse - First: patrol flags, tents should be organized around them. Assuming your scouts average two to a tent, that's a cluster of four tents per patrol. Let's also assume an "old goat's patrol". One cluster 100 yards to the east, the other 100 yards to the south, the other 100 yards to the west, the last, 100 yards to the north. SM/ASM's in the center.}

We are looking for ideas to somehow mark the Scout tents so we know who is in each tent.  This would be a temporary tag.  We are going through a growth spurt and are trying to set up some methods as we grow.  When we camp all the scouts are in identical tents.  So there is a row or bundle of 12 tents we are looking for some way to identify whose tent is whose during the specific trip.

This is both for the Scouts and the Leaders to be able to know which Scouts are in which tent.

Thanks for your ideas.

We are another user of the SOAR / Packmaster  combination.  We used the same set up for the Troop.  Our Pack is huge +/- 100 scouts so we needed a very good communication tool as well as advancement tracking.  We tried multiple products and did not find anything that served us as well.  We tried Scoutbook and found it to be lacking in pretty much everything we need when it cam to the Pack.

In SOAR we us a weekly eBlast to keep everyone informed, we use the RSVP feature w/ PayPal for events.  The Den leaders and Cubmaster (no longer me WooWhoo!) use the email lists to get information out.  We recently added Packmaster Web to the mix which allows the Packmaster App.  Packmaster/Packmaster-Web gas many of the feature that SOAR has but not there yet so we still use both.

Has anyone gotten anything official?  Our SE never tells us anything so we are officially the last to know. 

I am NOT trying to reopen or open he discussion of yes or no, or the Pros and Cons, just looking for any current info.

Has anyone gotten anything official?  Our SE never tells us anything so we are officially the last to know. 

I am NOT trying to reopen or open he discussion of yes or no, or the Pros and Cons, just looking for any current info.

We need a national campaign more than ever.  I am a firm believer in the basics or core of Scouting - the outdoors, camping, canoeing, Scout Law, Scout Oath....

I have my prediction sealed in an envelope

I must correct the false information posted here before it explodes into false rumors and spreads beyond this thread. 

 

 

Clearly you did not read the application very carefully. Or you have misquoted it, though why I can only imagine. 

 

My friends, I have in front of me a youth application, picked up a few hours ago from my regional Scout Service Center. It is the latest and most current application to come from the BSA. Under the heading "CUB SCOUT PACK," on the second page inside, it says "Pack membership is open to boys." No further comment. Under "BOY SCOUT TROOP/VARSITY TEAM," it says under the heading Boy Scout Troop "Your son can be a Scout if he has completed ... et cetera, while under Varsity Team is says "Varsity Scouting - A male youth must be at least 14 years of age and not yet 18." Both are explicit. There is no room for misunderstanding or re-interpretation.

 

To differentiate those programs from a program that actually is co-ed, it reads under the heading "VENTURING CREW/SEA SCOUT SHIP (COEDUCATIONAL)" (for emphasis I am sure) "Venturing and Sea Scouting are for young men and women at least 13 years old ..." et cetera.

 

All are very clear. There has been no change to this application. I called my regional offices to confirm as an added measure of certification to my research. They confirmed that there is no "newer application," and that there is no plan to open either Boy Scouting or Cub Scouting to girls at this time.

 

To spread the false rumor that the application is accepting girls is unwise and unwarranted. Why would National secretly try to smuggle such a massive change into the program under our noses? Would they really be so idiotic as to think they could slip in such a bombshell without anybody noticing? Of course not. If they ever did make such a decision it would come with trumpets blaring and fanfares and all kinds of nonsense. They wouldn't bury clues in the applications as though this was some second-rate mystery for the members to find and try to solve.

check the date.  the number on the front lower right tells you the version.  The newest is 717  (meaning July 2017)

I cannot tell you what National thinks or what region knows or does not know.  If you want to know what goes on in an organization don't go to the top, ask the folks at the bottom doing the work.

As for the bomb shell - Remember Dr. Gates

There are multiple versions of the Youth App out there- the flattest one HAS different language and no longer has the fee amounts listed.  Look on the lower right corner of the app to see the issue number.  The one I am referring to has the number "717" in the corner.  I have tried to attach it

New App.pdf

I just saw a copy of the newest batch of youth applications.  I quote:

Joining Requirements

Cub Scout Pack

Pack membership is open to youth in kindergarten through fifth grade...

Boy Scout Troop

Children can be Scouts if they have completed ....

** It no longer says boys or your son..   I think national already has a plan underway.

Anyone know of any 12-15 passenger van rental discounts for scout units?

Enterprise

A Scout is Trustworthy.  You are deliberately being Untrustworthy.  

 

On your honor, you will do your best... to obey the Scout law. 

 

 

I fail to see how anything we are doing is untrustworthy, you may disagree with it but there is nothing untrustworthy about it.  We tell them up front what the lay of the land is and what we are doing with the apps etc. 

I don't know, between this post and your reasoning for discouraging OA, I almost get the feeling your are anti-male. Equalizing the sexes seems to be how you rationalize your hostility. Yes, I know, psycho babble. But I haven't seen much in your post that show otherwise.

 

Watered down? Your program is already watered down simply by discouraging OA. Adult fears and ignorance are the biggest obstacles to allowing growth that comes from making decisions. I get the feeling your weren't a boy scout as a youth.

 

A lot of folks say the studies are mixed. The studies have been around for a long time as well as single sex education. No one disagreed or argued with the facts until recently when mixed genders became fashionable.

 

Watered down has a lot of implications here, but in large the program will loose the foundation of character growth from the practice of moral and ethical decisions. I have watched the program change in the last 20 dramatically away from scouts independently driving their activities to more adult driven activities. I believe part of it is due to a more fearing helicopter parenting mentality. But the other part is that fewer adult leaders have the youth experience to carry over the scouting spirit of the program. The reason we are seeing so much more advancement driven program is because the advancement process for adults is easy to understand and measure. 

 

Building character from freedom of choice doesn't have the instant measurement of unit performance like advancement. Stature is also measureable, and since leadership is a requirement of advancement, scouts are getting less freedom to choose how and when they will lead, leaving the adults to drive a program that places the boys into leadership slots so that their advancement will continue. 

 

Adults that don't have the experience of character growth by learning from independent choices typically don't trust the notion of the process. So, that is why adults without a youth experience naturally gravitate toward the measureable part of the program. We are watching the progression of the troop program changing to Webelos III.

 

Barry

There is difference between Not encouraging and discouraging.   And I fail to see the hostility. 

I can assure you our troop is Scout led.  All of these question have been posed to the Scouts.  I think you will find the Scouts are much more open to a coed program than leaders. 

Scouting and BP started in the UK, the UK and most of the rest of the world have gone Coed.

@@Snow Owl, Cub Scouts is for boys. Not sure what this program is.

We'll have to agree to disagree -

What's this program you're running called? I have never heard of a Cub Scout pack collecting applications on non-members and tracking them in PackMaster...or any other software.

 

Since girls aren't part of the program why does all the back office stuff matter?

 

Do you give them patches and ranks too?

It's called Cub Scouts, maybe you've heard of it

It has been mentioned several times, however the body of research into that claim is mixed. For every study in support, there is one that refutes. The same is true for research suggesting coed is better, that research is mixed. I believe the reason for the inconclusive research is that humans differ greatly in so many ways that any attempt to find a single variable which explains the differences is futile.

Yes the research is mixed and sporadic.  A large body of the "research" is more anecdotal than actual peer reviewed research.  There are too many variable at play in addition to the gender issue.  If you include research from across the pond it really brings to question the pros and cons of coed vs. single gender.

We live in a coed world and a change is coming - the sooner we start figuring it out the better. 

Scout on    

Sorry, but why do you have apps for girls? What's the point? They're not covered by insurance. What purpose does having the girl's parents fill out an app serve?

We need the information from the girls just like we do for the boys.  It all goes into Packmaster.  We still need to know their birthday and how to contact them etc.  We collect this information on all the Scouts not because BSA needs it but because we need it.   We treat everyone the same - as best we can.   They have the same rules to follow etc. 

And They are covered by insurance just like any other participant would be.  We have had both the national insurance policies (self insurance and excess riders) and the council policies reviewed and have zero concern about insurance.

One of the girls parents is a registered adult for many reasons.  so we are not decreasing the scout to leader ratio in any way by adding the girls for every girl we increase the number of leaders by 1.  It ensures they know the youth protection rules as well as the Scout program.  They are vetted to be a leader on the any trip so we the pack does not have to worry about the female leader for a female scout.

no we turn in the apps for their parent and we keep the girl app.

 

A Scout is Trustworthy

 

Not sure if that is directed at me or not - But to be clear, Council knows we are doing this, the girls who join also know what we are doing, we are hiding nothing nor falsifying anything.

You turn in applications for girls to council and they accept them? And they are processed as part of your roster?

 no we turn in the apps for their parent and we keep the girl app. 

We do not "actively recruit" girls but we have girls in our pack both siblings and none siblings.  They were a class b t-shirt but other than the uniform they do everything the boys do.  We collect  the same dues and application from everyone as well as Med form A & B.   For the girls we have the parents fill out an adult app and we register the adult as a leader or reserve.  This is our 3rd year with non sibling girls and we have had zero issues.

We are ready for the scout age girls when that issue arises as well.

We do not encourage OA in our Troop for most of the reason already stated.

1. It is a good ole boys club
2. Pulls the top Scouts out of our unit
3. In our council at least, very poorly run
4. Does not allow females (we have a female Scoutmaster)
5. Not real thrilled with the ceremonies and Native American mimicry
6. The Ordeal looks like hazing
7. Looks like what we tell the scouts they cannot do - secret organization, hazing, exclusion etc.

That all being said, I have seen councils where it looks very well run and very open

We need to get the volunteers, those of us actually  running the units to take back BSA.  Fewer HIGH paid professionals, more scouting.

They added a FAQ that made them look particularly dumb. Yes, there have been increases an average of once every 5 years. But in this case it's been twice in 7 years and the total has doubled in 5 years? Didn't it used to be $15 five years ago? And yes, soccer costs $400 some place and that doesn't even include uniforms, but guess what, the $33 doesn't include uniforms either, or summer camp, or any camp, or anything within the council. So the $33 national gets just because is suddenly not so far off the $100 the council wants everyone to donate to FOS. For people that don't have much money this has just lowered the amount of money a lot of people will be giving to their council.

 

Truth be told, if national had less money they might have to focus on what's important so anyone that wants to complain ... go for it. Yes, I'll still pay for it but something about Thrifty is what bothers me about this. What expenses have doubled in the past 5 years? Be honest.

Yes BSA needs to stop using that argument - the soccer and other programs provide paid coaches etc.