GeorgiaMom

Wow...........

This is my take as a conservative Christian. The Bible is not a science textbook. It's about the relationship between God and man.

I compare it to the way I answer my preschooler when he asks "Where did I come from?" I tell him, your Dad and I love each other very much, and we wanted a son to love, too. Is it a full scientific explanation of how my son was conceived and born? No. Is it true? Yes. It is appropriate to his age and level of understanding.

The first books of the Bible were written pre-Bronze age. It makes no sense to me to expect writing for that audience to fully explain 21st century science and technology. The Bible wasn't written to give a scientific explanation of our world. It was given to explain how we got here, how to live in peace with each other, and to let us know that we are God's beloved children.

I do not expect to ever fully understand God's creation from a scientific standpoint. I enjoy learning about it, but ultimately, I don't think I'm capable of ever wrapping my human mind around all the things God can do. I would make more sense to me to expect an ant to understand how and why I do things as a human. The gulf of understanding and capability between me and God is far greater than the gulf between the ant and me.

Isaac Newton was a faithful Christian, and had many good quotes about the relationship between science and God, including this:

"Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."

Newton often said that the purpose of science is to begin to understand God's creation. I agree with him.

I often wonder that modern science has room to believe in 11 dimensions, membrane universes, and life on other planets, but no room to believe in God. I find the more I understand about science, the more support I find for God's existence.

Faith is something that has to be experienced with an open mind. I see evidence all around for God's existence and his love for me: in my husband, my children, my friends, and my life. It does require a willingness to believe.

I compare it to my relationship with my husband. I believe my husband loves me. I see all kinds of evidence that he loves me. I choose to accept that belief. Can I ever definitively, scientifically prove that he loves me? No.

If I chose to nitpick, I could come up with all kinds of "evidence" that my husband is a jerk who never loved me at all. He makes mistakes just like I do. If I chose to try to disprove God's existence, I could nitpick it to death and come up with plausible evidence for that theory.

There will never be a definitive way to prove or disprove God's existence. That's why it's called "faith".

Thanks for asking,

Georgia Mom

Dear KDD:

Re: the BSA policy about not requiring parents to help. I asked our district exec this by email earlier in the spring based on my contact with American Heritage Girls for my daughter, which does have a policy that every parent volunteer in some way. So does our church music group, and my kids' AWANA class. This was his reply:

"BSA does not require, or even ask, that parents commit a certain amount of volunteer time as a condition of their Scout joining the pack. I can easily see why that’s the case. Consider households where, because of family or work situations, parents simply cannot volunteer – that would mean their boys would be excluded from Scouts.

It’s also worth noting that BSA does not even accept all parents who do volunteer – it’s rare, of course, but that’s why the background checks are conducted. All volunteers with the Pack must be registered leaders, and all must take Youth Protection Training."

In other conversations, the general tone has been that our BSA Council is all about signing boys up. They truly don't seem to care if we have enough parents to put on a quality program, or if the small contingent of parents running our pack is totally burned out. The attitude seems to be: "all boys have a right to enjoy Scouting". It doesn't seem to matter if the parents drop and run, complain constantly, bounce checks, whatever.

I actually had one parent this year get mad at me as treasurer because I wouldn't accept a second check from her after she had failed to reimburse the pack for a prior bounced check for popcorn nor had she paid her dues. This was in March, after she always had time to waste my time at Scout events listening to her sob stories. Like I have time for this. I'm there to be with my son, lady, not listen to excuse after excuse from you, and certainly not to hear her anger when I couldn't take another check from her.

Our pack is a mess. The standard procedure all year has been to plan events, beg for volunteers 1-2 weeks before the event, not get any volunteers, and then kick the responsibility to one of the very few of us already volunteering so that we don't disappoint the kids. I volunteered to be treasurer only, but I've been caught up in almost every event we've done. Not because I have time or because I want to, but out of guilt. As a result, I have firmly told the pack leaders that for the upcoming year, I am webmaster only. Absolutely nothing else.

I volunteer on a total of five programs between school and church in which my kids are involved. BSA doesn't seem to get that. Their attitude is that volunteers are there no matter when, no matter what, for whatever the BSA and the boys need. No thanks.

I have never heard our pack leaders come out and even ask the dozens of parents that do absolutely nothing to volunteer their time. And yet, they will keep coming back to the same 5 or 6 people over and over and over again because we're all suckers, apparently. That's lazy leadership.

Our pack leader had the nerve to ask "someone" in our little pack committee to organize a pack activity promoting Earth Day and recycling, complete with materials, in April on two days notice. I didn't even bother to respond to the email. And then he complained when no one stepped up. Finally, our Bear den leader, who has four kids of her own, dropped everything, put together an activity with materials and led it herself. God Bless her, but I'm just sick of enabling our pack leaders this way.

The CM and CC started the pack so they could do great things with their kids. And they do. All the fun stuff like Pinewood, etc. While the 3-4 other leaders (almost all moms with small kids) do everything else. I'm tired of enabling these two. Maybe by putting a very firm boundary on my time this upcoming year, they will be forced to either insist that the other dozens of do-nothing parents step up, or do more themselves.

As an adult, I hate Scouting. There is no joy in it at all. I have spent practically no time with my son this year. During all events, I am stuck off at a table somewhere accepting payments, writing receipts, and trying to explain activities and signups to everyone. I barely saw my son's car race. The way they handle volunteering totally eliminates any opportunity to enjoy Scouting with my son.

So next year, I will be webmaster, and that's it. Whenever anyone has questions, payments, forms to hand in, whatever, I'm just going to smile and send them over to our CM. :-)

So, KDD, as much as I wish the BSA would support a policy like other groups use of requiring parents to volunteer, the BSA is evidently against it. I hope you work things out with your pack.

GeorgiaMom

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

GeorgiaMomma