mashmaster

It is interesting to see the differences in YPT for Cub/Boy Scouts and Venture scouts.  That was actually not too bad.

You only have to see a gay pride parade to understand that is a sexual issue.

 

Being identified as gay or homosexual is an automatic tag of sexuality. A SM who is a known KKK member doesn't have to say a word about racism to be publicly tagged a racist. A SM who is a doctor may never say a word about his private life, but because of his reputation, he would likely be called on first with an injury during a troop activity. Our reputations are very much part of role modelling.   

 

We risk our kids everyday by the roll models they interact with. As parents, it behooves us to protect our kids from being influenced by people who model behaviors we believe are dangerous. Just because we may not feel some behaviors are risky doesn't mean we shouldn't respect those parents who do. 

 

Barry

Barry, 

  You and I will never agree on these points.  I have gay friends, grew up around gay people, and and happily married with 3 kids raising them the best I can.  I have never been to a gay pride parade and they haven't had them around me so I don't really have a chance to see them if I wanted to.  But I refuse to generalize a group of people like you are doing.  Comparing gay to KKK is very odd to me.  (I refuse to go there)

  I wish you well in your scouting experience with your son and I you are able to insulate him from everything you see as evil in this world.

Yours in Scouting

It's entertaining to me that this role modeling stuff seems to go right over your heads. Studies have shown that kids who come from divorced homes are more likely to divorce when they become adults. Kids who are around smokers are more likely to smoke and kids who come from homes of drug users are more likely to use drugs. Is that so surprising? Roll models do have an effect on those who observe them in one way of the other. One can't prevent our kids from being exposed to all people who exhibit dangerous behaviors, but most parents try. Now I can understand that many believe homosexuality is normal by birth, but to many others homosexual acts are not normal by birth and are very dangerous behaviors.

 

Barry

I don't want my scouts modelling any sexuality learned in scouting, hetero or homo.   To me it is a non-scouting issue.  We have parents that smoke or drink but never at scout functions....

I have only heard of councils requiring face to face YPT if you are going to one of their camp.

In Texas it is a law to have face to face YPT for any camps over 2 days, and current within the year.

I'm wondering if he worrys that kids might be around gay people if kids go to the mall, or the theater, or a renaissance faire, or a restaurant, or school??

I think some people think the world is made of people that act and believe just like them but who knows.  

Yes, but these other examples are not private organizations with a policy. There was an expectation by this man. I suspect you bought your house where you did for a reason. If they opened a crack house or XXX store next door I'm sure you'd turn a few shades of white too.

Hey, I grew up in LA where we had XXX stores and drug houses.  I don't think crack was around yet.  

I don't think the analogy works, it is more like my situation where I am Jewish and have had people stop and stand with their jaws wide open when they find that out.   Even had people question me if I was really Jewish because they found that hard to believe.  Being in the bible belt they think everyone is Baptist or some kind of evangelical Christian.

I was out of the state last week and talking to a co-worker that is LDS based in Utah.  I knew he did scouting so I asked him his opinion, it was interesting.  He said his only problem is now that it is legal to be a gay leader kids going to camp might be around gay people.  I mentioned that there are a lot of parents and other non-leaders at council events so that has always been the case.  I am pretty sure I saw him turned another shade of white after I said this.  That was an interested conversation.

@@mashmaster that's a good price for the quality you get.

Yeah, I agree.  We are going to order 50 and see how it goes.

We just stick to the $10 carmel option and that sells well, the rest is just a pain.

I have been talking about walking stick medallions at every district meeting and other gatherings that I attend in my council.  I am consistently hit with "but do you have any idea how much costs to create a medalion or how long it would take to recoup the investment?"  I do not know the answers to those questions of course and Internet only research has not given me any help.  I have not contacted a vendor to see about the set-up because I am not in position to design or create a medallion.  Does anyone know the costs involved. Bad Wolf you created a coin?  I would imagine it is more expensive.

Quote from the place the BadWolf mentioned earlier came to $100 for initial cost to create the stamp the first time.  Then the first 50-99 medalions were $4 a piece.  After 100 they drop in price to $3 a piece.

I'm saying what I said. It was pretty clear. I will repeat.

 

If BSA did not mean the God of Jews, Christians and Muslims, then they should not have used the capitalized word God. If they meant just any old god or notion of a higher being not God, then they should use the lower case word god....or even gods.

Then why does BSA have religous emblems for non-aramaic religions.   http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/ReligiousAwards.aspx 

Somehow we end up never spending up to our budget so every year it grows.  This year over $10k, so we are purchasing major capital investments like a trailer, shed, and sending the boys on a free trip.  We are cubs so they don't have super expensive treks to save for.  But we encourage them to sell popcorn to earn their way to summer & winter camp.

Forwarding from a statement from our council.  The most interesting to me is that Jewish committee has decided to know recommend scouting.  Previously, they were discouraging it top their congregations.

Several national committees aligned with major religious chartered organizations have released statements supporting their faith's continued relationship with Scouting:

Yes, for doing the CDT, also for a few special treks in Europe and Alaska. We used these guys.

Thanks I called them.

Has anyone every made a custom medallion for their unit or district?

Yup. Asked, they said maintain the current policy until told otherwise. But that is not what the parents want to hear when they are signing up. They want to know that they're not joining now only to have to change in a few months.

We just need to tell them what the current policy is an be transparent.  That way it is up to them to make the decision.  Anything can change in a few months so they are joining on the rules today without any warranty.   If they don't like a change they are always free to join another unit or stop scouting.  We can't control any of that.

I am a leader in my unit and district, there is a unit in our area that would not allow me to be a leader because I am not their religion.  So my son knew that he was not going to that unit and I consider it their loss.  In fact, that units policy has driven away almost all of their leaders and is about to fold.  So I think local option is working IMHO.

To be honest, we're not saying anything. That's the problem. We don't have time to give parents accurate info they want and we will lose potential members either way. Thanks BSA.

 

But since the CO has not given any direction yet the original policy still holds until it is changed.

Have you asked?  We talked about the potential with our CO over a year ago about their feeling on the matter, then again when the decision was made.  This should not have been a surprise to anyone as this was one of the leading options when the youth decision was made.  Our CO was clear and decisive on their position early on and reconfirmed it with us last week.

When has discriminatory practices in anything held the test of time?  Posting the most or shouting down others does not make you right.  This isn't a liberal or conservative thing, it is a discrimination thing.  Churches continue to evolve their beliefs over time and those changes go towards more openness and inclusiveness.  People were against integrating races in BSA and that went away because it became a non-issue, people were against woman being leaders and that became a non-issue.  

We need to look at the forest and not the trees, nobody should be talking or demonstrating any sexuality to or in front of the boys/girls.  That is an issue to be taught in other venues (home, church, school), The youth do not care about that, they want to camp and have fun.

On of my scout parents was a scout in the 70's and his straight leader did bad things.  People that will do bad things sadly are across the board, so I don't buy the argument that homosexuality or heterosexuality makes someone more predatory than the other.  

I have to agree with @@Stosh here, there are effects from this that will take some time to shake out, so it isn't "over" yet. While I believe that local control is the only choice that honors the fundamental BSA values of respect for other faiths (yeah I know, those religious faiths don't deserve respect), it will still generate some large effects. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't easy.

 

The LDS pulling out would have a significant effect nationally. What the long term effect of the LDS leaving is hard to tell. But the short term would be a big negative as the LDS supplies a lot of direct support at the local level (at least half of our council's round tables are in LDS facilities, not to mention district and council recognition dinners and other like events).

Yes but there are two other threads on the same issue already....

I' not Mormon so I don't care what the LDS units do. I am waiting to see what my CO does. They are meeting in late August, but for now they said proceed under the local option.

I'm not Mormon either, I'm on district and a large number of our units are.  So our district will be affected if they leave.  Our CO has already told us they are fine with the decision, they are Lutheran FWIW.

How many threads are we going to have on this topic?  The decision has been made, we are all waiting for the responses from the LDS church.  Whether you agree with it, it is done.  Time to move forward, IMHO.   

I've used the USGS ones fro work and for scouts. No problems.

Deleted double post

I've used the USGS ones fro work and for scouts. No problems.

We use USGS maps and UTM coordinates :-)  Luckily, I have a parent that works for USGS and can plot them at scale for us.

The app Handy GPS is a great app to use.  

"" it is good, bad, or otherwise"".  

 

Wallll, it ain't the way I seen it.     Each Newsletter reflects the editor's  desire and spirit and ...  resources.   Yours is very good, but includes more "instruction" than I would include.  I like the pics of local Scouts doing their thing, but my email will not support that.    I have been told I can be TOO interesting.  A neighboring District has a "Newsletter app" that I have been invited to try, but haven't got around to  yet.   The previous enews flash was a listing of "stuff".   I try to encourage folks to go and find things on their own in googleland.   If they are reading my enews, online, they can easily be referred to the Orienteering Championship Games website for the details and reminders about declination, etc.

 I try to refer folks back to the "official" District webpage for Training dates, schedule, official stuff.  The training and references are good to have and I will suggest that to my colleagues. 

Thumbs up.