mashmaster

We use it and it is ok.  Frankly I prefer scouttrack which is lower tech and faster.

@Hedgehog @blw2

 

 

Totally agree with the two of you.  If it needs plugging in, it shouldn't be part of the training.  PowerPoint presentations send the message that the instructor is too lazy to actually lead by example.  

 

The #1 reason why I don't attend U of Scouting first weekend in November?  It's because the season is quickly coming to an end and I'm out getting my last few good days in before the snows fall.

 

If one has to plug it in, it has no place in any scouting program.  Show me a scouter who uses PowerPoint to teach the square knot and I'll show you a guy that has Velcro closures on his sneakers....  

Ours is in January where it is really cold here in Texas.  Sometimes we need a jacket!

It is split between indoors and out.

Just from a time perspective, if we (as experienced scouters) were going to reorganize training, I'd hope we would do a few things:

1. Increase the value, decrease the time commitment.
2. Make the training complete and relevant.
3. Standardize how it is taught.
4. Increase availability.
5. Make re-certification easy and fast.
6. Eliminate redundancy.
7. If they cost money, make them cost-effective.

That's my input. I think much of the current training can be re-used, but let's eliminate things that may not be needed OR that could be combined if only to reduce the time we spend training.

I agree

Why not just have one level for Cubs. Get the training done once and over. Same for basic Boy Scouts. Then have advanced training for high adventure.

I see Baloo as being the most basic stepping stone for camping.  Many times OWLS is combined with Baloo by many districts.  

 

 

My real question is -- what can we do to help other troops kick-start their adventure program? 

The way I see it is the training courses are:

1) Baloo : Basic camping planning for packs

2) OWLS : Outdoor training specifically targeted to jump starting a quality Webelos Problem

3) IOLS : Outdoor training specifically targeted to skills necessary for scouts up to First Class

4) Powder Horn: Outdoor training targeting High Adventure training for Venturing and Boy Scouts

Unfortunately, it seems that Powder Horn is very regional and not offered everywhere.  

I have taken Powder Horn and that is close to the training you are asking about.  It is geared towards high adventure training and is very hands on for 2 3-day weekends.

Here is an example flyer from our council: http://www.bsacac.org/my_files/documents/110_2016_texas_powder_horn_flyer.pdf 

Mashmaster, thank you for sharing that. Your church must be a very open and welcoming church and I'm glad for that. Do you think they will continue with BPSA? It sounds like BPSA is working very well.

They are an extremely open and welcoming church which is why my wife and I chose it.

I think they will continue with BPSA since they have already started that process a couple of years ago.  I don't know much about that program other than it is coed and based on the Baden Powell books.

Welcome to the forums.

There are many units in the same place yours is.  I think something helpful would be to get your cubmaster and committee chair to attend your district roundtables and maybe they will get exposed to what training is out there and ways that other packs are working on the cub scout program.

Best of luck and continue to ask questions and maybe send them here :-)  We promise not to turn you in.

I'm so confused at this point.  I was just stating a fact from our church and nothing more.  Obviously I think the change is good but it will take time to heal the wounds they feel they have incurred.

This was statement they told me, which isn't necessarily bad, just another point of view. 

I know that BSA has been an instrumental and positive experience for many boys/men. And not so much for others. Sounds like BSA at the highest level is taking steps to ensure inclusion of GLBT youth and leaders. Like any organization with local groups though I wonder how open the groups will be. My hope is that over time, very! 

I do think organizations can change but just like when we do wrong, it doesn't always erase the pains and hurts. 

As far as the UCC, I'm proud to be ordained in a denomination that stands up for justice issues even if that means ending endorsements. Sounds like enough progress has been made towards inclusion that the UCC feels called to reestablish those connections. 

I don't have boys but I have been very pleased with our involvement in BPSA inclusive scouting. My daughters enjoy learning along their male counterparts and those who historically didn't (don't) fit in with BSA or GSA. Things like sexual orientation, gender identity, physical and behavioral abilities etc.

My condolences to you and your family.

 

 

Part of me wants to make up a list of the camp ground rules and ask that the kids and parents sign it.  That can be their 1st warning.  Of course that would be when my child decides to run in camp and everyone else would jump all over it. KWIM?

 

 

I see nothing wrong with having camp rules.  

Less jobs and more people helping is a good thing.  I bet most people on this site have taken on too many roles because we want to make the experience great for the boys. 

I can deal with the boys... it is the parents I have more problems with.....  don't get me started on them :-)

Krampus, I am not an expert in the subject, but I think you are talking about a different church organization than the one that is the subject of this thread. A church that was in the United Church of Christ would not be likely to drop BSA units due to the 2013 policy change. Just the opposite, though apparently they decided to wait until the policy was changed for adults as well.

My family belongs to a UCC church and they were definitely on the side of the change was not enough.  In fact, our current leaders still don't think the change is enough.  They want no loophole for discrimination.  Also, they are a big fan of co-ed scouts.  

I will send the notice to them to see what they think since they currently charter a Baden Powell scout unit (I'm not sure how that group works)

oh no, I'm fairly urban here, in North Florida.

I just figured that most folks that are "into" scouting tend to be outdoorsmen anyway.... even if not hard core outdoorsmen, most of us like to camp, or maybe fish, hunt, etc...

 

In my case, I've been plop camping in one form or another since before I was a Cub Scout.  I've done a little backpacking, not nearly as much as I'd like. A little bit of camping by boat and canoe.  

This sort of experience seems to be the typical scouter here.  We have plenty of indoor parents that have never camped, families that camp with us as a pack for the very first time.  Some will never camp...... but I can't think of any scouter I know that comes from that demographic.  Those are the parents that don't step up.

Interesting how it differs from area to area.

Presumably that is in response to the original question, not the tangent this thread has taken. (Hmm, an ON-topic post, are those allowed here?) While a wide variety of things may be barbecued (or, if you are in the South, barbecue), ice cream would not seem to be one of them.

yum....

Here is one I saw the other day and I immediately thought "Yum, that would be perfect on a campout".  http://allrecipes.com/video/1469/bubbas-jambalaya/?prop25=170677855&prop26=DailyDish&prop27=2015-10-02&prop28=Feature_1&prop29=Photo&eaid=5159317  Bubba's Jambalaya.  I would just omit the shrimp.

First off, thank you for volunteering, try not to let this get you down on that.

We are a grade level pack but if someone came to us 7 in K we would take him.  Never had that yet.

You were correct in your actions and the parents were incorrect.  Safety first, and you are absolutely able to do what you can to make sure that the boy is safe.  He also was breaking a camp rule so you were right on that page too.  Follow YPT guidelines and you are fine.  As someone who is on the district committee, feel free to engage your District Executive or District Committee member to help calm the parent down if they do not understand what your responsibilities are and theirs.  

To emphasize how important safety is, that is the only reason that a YPT guideline can be broken if all else fails.  (e.g. someone injures themselves or is having an immediate health issue)  Obviously, best to take another adult with you even in those situations.

It happens to everyone.  I had a boy who thought it was cool to swing an 8 foot stick around at camp and wanted to wander into the woods.  I told him no and took the stick away and told him he needed to stay within eyesight of the camp.  Afterwards, the parent told me how I was completely unreasonable and was going to talk to somebody.  I replied to the parent with our DE on the email and explained how it was for safety reasons but feel free to talk to our DE.  4 years later he is still in our pack.

Boy, differs from my BALOO experience.

 

There was quite a big crowd of students.... probably 30 or more.  I think there was maybe a handful of folks with little or no camping experience.  The rest were eagle scouts, experienced scouters, lifelong campers, etc.... in it just because it was required.

In fact I think there was more knowledge about tour permits sitting down that there was standing up.

My guess is that is it area dependent.  We are pretty urban so not a ton of campers.

And there isn't a class that goes by that I don't learn something from one of the participants.  you never know.

I can't say I disagree.  I am normally pretty good about peeking ahead into the syllabus before I take courses in this case I did not - so I didn't go in with a frame of reference for what OWL should have done, in this case I was only looking for the BALOO.  The vast majority of which was stuff I already knew from my own Scouting.

Agreed about Baloo, but in my experience people attending BALOO tend to not have any experience with scout camping or camping at all.  So there is a lot of "No, you can't do that and this is why."  You would not believe some of the questions I have been asked at BALOO or OWLS

The OWLs training component added about an extra hour to my BALOO course. 

 

By IOLS was all about every outdoor component of the Scout->First Class Rank Requirement Skiils.  While the Webelos do work on Scout Skills; the IOLS, at least in my course, focus really would not work for Cubs, and you would still need some extra training on the neuances of Webelos vs. Boy Scouts if combined.

That is a pity.  Because if they follow the actual course syllabus OWL is a full day and a half alone.  BALOO should be about 6 hours on its own.  When they combine it, they are short changing the attendees of the info they need.

IMHO

I've read some districts will combine the two so that the common materials are together, then split off into IOLS and WeLOT.

 

I've seen it done where the course did IOLS then kept the Cub leaders a little long to talk about some of the differences.

 

Anyone remember when national was going to combine to the courses?

We combine the two courses.  I was course director for two of them.  The material is very similiar.  The biggest difference is focusing on specific activity pins vs. just general topics in IOLS.  National is so far back on updating these courses it is pretty sad.  The official syllabus is set up to combine the courses.  I think the only parts that really need to be covered in OWLS that aren't in IOLS is the rules about camping in your council which is obviously different for each council.

That is NOT Barbecue!!

 

That brisket stuff is smoked beef.  It's not bad, but it's not Que.  If it has BBQ in the name, it has to start with a curly tail.

Those are fighting words in Texas.  Wars have been started for less......

The lightest one I've seen is 3.3 lbs. Worth the weight in someone's pack.

oh cool, I haven't seen that one.  But you have access to secret government equipment :-)

If you made this statement in Texas you might not make it out alive.

As a Texan I completely agree.  The traditional Texas menu is Breakfast Tacos, Tex-Mex, BBQ (Brisket!), Pecan Pie.  The BBQ and Tex-Mex can be swapped between lunch and dinner.  Chili on Fritos can be a cheap easy substitute in an emergency  :-)

Here is an interesting article that came out local to me today.  Reinforces my belief that we should figure out how to make AEDs more available to troops.  I know they are too heavy and expensive for backpacking but I hope technology continues to improve to make it smaller and cheaper.

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/nitro-swimmings-emergency-response-saves-15-year-olds-life/ 

Try Mexican Meatloaf in a dutch over.....  yum.  That is always a hit with our pack.    dutch oven lasagna, marinated pork loin cubed up and grill with veggies, taco soup.....  This list is very long.

Glad to hear you are doing well.  Even with our bickering we are all in this together and will do anything to help one another.  Best of luck friend.