mashmaster

other than that are the books the same from the 2016 version to the 2008 version?

What are the changes between the latest MB book and the last book.  Other than the cover?  Anyone have both?

We are going on the SCUBA adventure in June 2020.  Anyone else sign up today?

Where they just family camping with the Cubs or were they acting as Den chiefs or similar roles.  I would approve it if the boys were actively helping and training the cubs.  But not if it was just a family campout.  Just my two cents

55 minutes ago, MattR said:

Sounds like a great trip. The idea of a high adventure trip over winter break is great. I'm sure everyone has lots of great memories. Congratulations to whomever set it up.

The only shocker to me: They spent all that effort building a quinzee and didn't sleep in it? And then they complained about how cold it was? Quinzees are nice and warm inside, probably what the scouts are used to (34, 35 degrees). As for snacking all day I've not heard that. We eat 4 big meals a day and throw in some snacks. Certainly we eat a lot, probably twice what we usually do, but we only snack when we feel like it. I mean, if you learn to listen to your body and eat when you need to it all takes care of itself.

My son and I were leads for the trip.  It was pretty easy to setup.

Regarding the Quinzee, I agree but the only one really wanting to sleep in it, couldn't convince anyone else to do it.  I wasn't going to force them.

Philmont provide one boiling in a pouch hot meal and cold packaged food for the rest of the day.    We were just following their instructions.

37 minutes ago, Chisos said:

Great report, thanks for posting it! 

Anyone try the 72 oz steak at the Big Texan? 

Also-might be me, but the photo links don't seem to work.

Nobody tried the 72oz steak.

19 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

Photo links worked fine for me.  Impressed by the young man on the far right in the last pic, who braved it in shorts.

He only wore those during travel days.

Not sure if this is the right place for this:

OK so here is my post mortem of the Philmont Winter Adventure trip.

 Fact: We are from Texas and not accustomed to cold weather.

          We were a crew of mixed youth with 40% of the youth not knowing the others.

          50% of the Adults were mixed and didn’t know the others.

 

Overview:  This was an amazing adventure that pushed the youth (and adults) to limits that they never knew they could overcome.  They not only survived the experience, they had a fun time doing it.  They all would rather not be in a tent in sub-zero weather again and would rather be cabin based during the nights.  But this experience taught them how they could survive the elements in a manner they could not have learned without doing it.  They all got to attempt to snowshoe, cross country ski, sled, and downhill ski.  Sledding and downhill skiing was their favorite activities.  Which is not surprising.

 

Day 1:

  We drove from Austin to Amarillo.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/RTbXHwGC6uN76qkH8 

  We stayed at the Kwahadi museum overnight.  There was snow on the ground but it was warm inside.  In fact, too warm.   Sleeping arrangements where ground pads and sleeping bags on a cement floor.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/gvXE3DNsDDHBjoyt5

  We ate dinner at the Big Texan Steak Ranch restaurant.  The food was meh, but you go there for the experience.  It was about $20-30 a head, more that we were looking for but it worked out.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/mdQy5u4yMTpYk8dn6  

 

Day 2:

  We drove from Amarillo to Philmont.  Stop at the Subway in a gas station in Springer just off of I-25.  That is the last food until Philmont.  Don’t ask why I know this…..  https://photos.app.goo.gl/NsLUWXZk4nhVpmmg6

   Arrival at Philmont, we met our ranger and he guides us through the process.  You turn in your paperwork and start the gear checkout process.  Philmont provides all the necessary gear so it is pretty easy and they want you to stay alive.  After gear check out, you have dinner in the dining hall and then attend a presentation about how to survive in the snow.  We started experiencing some crew storming already at this point(Mainly the adults).  It is cold and people are starting to get on edge.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/rpf9uCYzirJxKxmJ9 

  You prepare the you gear for the backcountry on the sleds and what stays in the dorms for when you return. 

 

Day 3:

  You do a medical re-check to ensure you will survive.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/mLiseiEZpXGbYqPS8

  Pack the sleds of gear into the trucks and head out to the backcountry.

  The eating process begins….. You have two 1-gallon bags of food that you are supposed to continually eat for the next two days, in order to not freeze to death.  You will become sick of eating.  It is work to continue snacking.  I never thought I would say that.

  After about a 40 minute drive you arrive at the base of the path that you will take to your campsite.  You reassemble the gear sleds, don snowshoes, and begin the 2 mile hike up the hill in the snow dragging your gear via a gear snow sled.  This is much harder than we expected but we made it to base camp in Miranda just under Mt. Baldy.  It was gorgeous!  https://photos.app.goo.gl/h1TYE7AcDp7J25ai7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/zzDtEkXs7tWhKBE37 

  Tents are setup and the snow kitchen is made.   By the time this is done, it is almost time to eat dinner and bed down.  It is surprising how long it takes to get to this point.  Dinner is the only hot meal of the day and it is boiled in a pot and eaten directly from the packaging.  It isn’t that bad.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/L6NbPjYRPnNiJdCG6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/dUEn5dd7pi7gzqFd6

  You boil water and put it in a Nalgene water bottle for warmth.  You go to bed at 6pm, because the temperature drops like a rock.  You no bundle up in you sleeping bag and all your gear in a tiny tent until 6am when the sun returns.  This was the hardest part.  It is freezing (-4 degrees), you are trapped in a tiny tent and it is dark and isolated.  No noise, no light, no heat….  Some flip out at this point….  (ok, that was me).   After the panic and bailing out of the tent for a short time you attempt to sleep again.  Now if you look up in the sky while you see the most amazing sky.  I personally saw several shooting stars.  It is gorgeous and freezing at the same time. 

  Boots were difficult to remove because the shoe laces were frozen together.  You fight the urge to tend to natures call because you don't want to struggle with the boots, get dressed, and get out of the tent.  You give in and go through the procedure to go. 

  When you can’t sleep like me, you gets some nice night sky pictures.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/DQR2fmQH4xtinYyEA  https://photos.app.goo.gl/mDAxWep5CmHS93CYA

 

Day 4:

  You wake up when the sun is out and escape the dreaded tent.  You start eating….. again……  https://photos.app.goo.gl/scVPGA4PgHkFV3gX6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/t3wDjqu2Kb7K2TEP7 

  They begin working on building a Quinzee.  While we waited for the snow to settle we tried cross country skiing and headed down the hill to sled.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/zVY3MyRRRFQ4tFHHA 

  We joined up with Troop/Crew 464 from Pearland, TX and had a fun time sledding together.  We then had a competition against each other showing off our skills we learned on the snow already.  We had a relay race that included cross country skiing, snow shoeing, and sledding.  Everyone tried their best and had a great time.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/yfjhydcdSs3jURbd8 

  The quinzhee was finished but nobody was brave enough to sleep in it. 

  After dinner, we scurried into our tents for another cold night, this time was warmer at -2.  And sleeping was easier this night.

 

Day 5:

  After waking up we worked together as a team to pack up base camp and load up our sleds. 

  The walk down the hill with the sleds took 1/3 the amount of time on the way up.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/rpKFKmmMRk1nGtYa9 

  Then we headed back to Philmont base camp.  Turned in our gear and headed off to go pick up our downhill skis from the ski resort.

  Made it back to Philmont for a relaxing night in a heated cabin.  

  We slowly thaw and feel everything is too hot, even though it is cold, we have acclimated already to sub-zero temps.

 

Day 6:

  We headed out early in a morning for a day of downhill skiing.  The group took a lesson together and learned the basic skills of skiing.  The rest of the day was spent testing out what we learned at Red River Ski resort.  The ride back to Philmont was filled with tales of their skiing crashes and laughter.  Everyone was very happy.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/B2aSZLN61M6Grfi9A

 

Day 7:

  We visited the National Scouting Museum and saw historical pieces from the start of scouting and OA.  It was a pretty cool sight.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/dv21VYZrJj5NEpS19

  We headed off towards home.  We stopped in Amarillo at Cadillac ranch and got to spray paint buried cadillacs.  (It is a sanctioned are exhibit that is unique)  https://photos.app.goo.gl/EVDNrxgoKBJBXcEM7 

  That night we stayed at a church in Lubbock.  We were guests of Troop 406 that has been around since 1925.  They were very welcoming and it was really cool to see the pictures from the many years the troop has been around.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/ozDcCjQ8W6hW2mgeA https://photos.app.goo.gl/N5JUSVr4ojBr9gs27

 

Day 8:

  We finally drove the final stretch home and finally arrived to our homes and families to tell the tales of our trip.

 

It was a very hard trip for our scouts but it is a trip they will always remember for the rest of their lives.

3 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

That tree on the cabin is a different camp

I understand that part.  I was just shocked at the picture.   I was commented about the fact that the family filing a law suit isn't necessarily unreasonable and that I am not an expert on the situation.

I lived in the Seattle area and have seen what happens when a freak wind storm sweeps through.  100' fir trees slice through 2 story houses like a hot knife through butter.

 

So I was at Philmont last week and was talking to the camp director about this.

He said that they are the only HA base that is always in the green.  He said that even last year with the fires they were in the green.  Apparently part of the Philmont endowment included real estate properties that they get rent on to cover expenses.

He also told me that it is owned by a trust and insulated from BSA corporate. 

wow.   The tree looks like it exploded.

I can't say I blame the parents for suing.  I don't know all the details and am not interested in diving into the details here but there certainly could be negligence in forest management that led to this.  But I don't know the camp, the way it was maintained, and whether or not the weather was bad enough that they should have followed weather hazards protocols.   

It is a very sad situation.

5 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

Mash, looks like you all are in for quite an adventure!

[As I type, distant memories from my scouting days in Alaska....]

Please keep us posted, thoughts/prayers for safe travel and a fantastic experience.

 

 

Thank you.  I will try to post when I can.

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Amarillo TX
1033 PM CST Sun Dec 30 2018

OKZ001>003-TXZ001-002-006-311200-
/O.CON.KAMA.WC.A.0001.190101T0600Z-190101T1800Z/
Cimarron-Texas-Beaver-Dallam-Sherman-Hartley-
Including the cities of Boise City, Keyes, Guymon, Beaver,
Forgan, Dalhart, Stratford, Hartley, and Channing
1033 PM CST Sun Dec 30 2018

...WIND CHILL WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM LATE MONDAY NIGHT
THROUGH TUESDAY MORNING...

* WHAT...Very cold wind chills possible. Cold wind chills as low
  as 15 below zero will cause frostbite in as little as 30 minutes
  to exposed skin.

* WHERE...The Oklahoma Panhandle and portions of the northwestern
  Texas Panhandle.

* WHEN...From late Monday night through Tuesday morning.

* ADDITIONAL DETAILS...Northerly winds of 10 to 20 mph with gusts
  as high as 25 mph are possible. Limit outdoor exposure, protect
  exposed pipes and ensure that your heating system is in good
  working order. If you must be outdoors, protect body parts most
  susceptible to frostbite, such as your fingers, toes, ears and
  nose. Ensure that outdoor animals have warm dry shelter and
  fresh unfrozen water.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A Wind Chill Watch means there is the potential for a combination
of very cold air and the wind to create dangerously low wind
chill values. Monitor the latest forecasts and warnings for
updates on this situation.

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Mash, enjoy. Not gonna lie. The first freeze of the year is hard on this old frame, so brace yourself, and don't be afraid to cry "uncle" if anything doesn't feel right. But, once you adapt, it's sheer beauty! (Well, the burn scar will be sad.)

When I get my official WSJ troop #, I'll PM you.

 

Thanks,  This will be the first time for seeing snow for the kids.  My first time sleeping on it....  brrrrrr  

Howdy from Austin

We leave on our adventure on New Years Eve and will arrive on New Year's Day.  We will be in one the first crews of the year  19-0101-01.  My son and I are excited, as is the best of crew.  We are so looking forward to the trip. Snow shoeing, cross country skiing, quinzee building, downhill skiing, and sledding.

I know many are down on scouting and think that scouting has lost it's focus on outdoors.   I don't see that, scouting is like everything in life.  It is what you make of it.  Sailing in the Florida keys at Sea Base this year, first backpacking trip, learning to sail and joining Sea Scouts.  And attending World Jamboree this summer.  All these experiences are there because of scouting.  The kids wanted to go see snow and chose to got camping at philmont in the winter.  I get to experience sleeping in 3 degrees......  What was I thinking....

Wish me luck 🙂

1 hour ago, Jahaza said:

And I should have checked first, but Program Features is still available in print in three volumes in English or Spanish from the Scout Shop.

And it is really good.  I suggest everyone buy a set of these.

yum!

1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

 

I like your plan.  I think it looks like a great plan.  But . . . I'm concerned about the season of the year.  Our new troop will be starting beginning of February.   Late February and early March we still ususally have snow on the ground.   I think that some of the prospective new scouts have little or no camping experience.    I want the first weekend outing to be a positive experience for all.  We will not have a lot of scouts to start with.  I don't want to lose any after the first camping trip if the camping trip is something they are not yet ready for. )   

Anybody have good suggestions for a good type of first weekend or overnight trip for winter for a new or inexperienced troop not yet ready for camping in the snow?  Cabin with a wood stove,  but cook over a fire outdoors and do day hikes in the snow?  Other ideas?

I am from Texas so I know nothing about snow.  You can camp in cabins but that might be a bad habit to start off with.  But then again, I don't know anything about camping in the snow.  I would start with just a basic campout with team building and basic camping training (cooking, cleaning, talking about what they want to do)

On 10/8/2018 at 5:54 PM, dbautista5 said:

Hello Scouters!

I am positioned to be the new Scoutmaster for our girls youth Troop starting next year and am honored to have been approached by our Committee to fill this role! 

I'm trying to wrap my head around getting program started for these new youth. As much as I want the Troop to be youth lead, I also realize that the youth will be starting with little to no scouting experience. I believe a couple of the girls have been with GSA, most have not, and have only experienced Scouting through their brothers. 

We will be sharing a Charter, Committee and ASMs. I should be able to leverage most of our existing ASMs to help teach Scout skills to the new youth (EDGE method) but ultimately I want to get to the point where the girls are doing this for themselves, similar to the boy's Troop.

My questions are related to experiences with starting brand new Troops. 

How did you initially plan program? Did you just arbitrarily plan out the first few months and then let the youth start planning thereafter? 

What youth leadership positions do you consider absolutely necessary? Obviously SPL and PL. Troop Guide / Instructor ?? Do we have to have an ASPL?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as we get closer to launching. We're having our first recruiting event in a couple of weeks so I'm sure these questions and more will come up.

Thank you all for any insight you can provide!

Yours in Scouting,

Denise Bautista

 

Welcome and ask questions, we try to help each other here.  Sometimes you will agree with what people say and other times you won't.  There are a lot of great Scouters here.

I started a Troop 2 years ago and was the Scoutmaster so I can help with that perspective.  My first piece of advice is to do what is right for the girls and know that you will make mistakes.  That is OK as long as you are trying to do it in the interest of them.  It will get easier, and harder at the same time.  Go to your district round table and network with other troop leaders.

When we first formed, we met with the SPL and ASPL and helped them with planning the first 6 months.  Ask them what they want to do.  Get the scout program books from the scout shop.  There are three of them and they cover a huge amount of activities that the scouts can do.  It also tells you know what to do at meetings and outings for that activity.  It is a great place to start.  Look at the resources here: https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/planning/ get and read the first Troop Leader book, it is really good.  https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/adults/publications/.  You will find that your youth will want to do something, once they choose help them do that and own it.  If it is something like climbing or shooting that requires trained leader you don't have, ask other troops for help.

Necessary positions(assuming you are a small troop):  SPL, PL, Quartermaster.  Scribe is next in my mind.  ASPL is only necessary when you grow, but it is great to have when the SPL can't make it.

Realize, you are doing your best.  And let the kids do and own their program but at the beginning you may need to be there to help coach them .  Provide them the forms for planning to fill out and it helps keep them a bit more on track.  Scouting is not only about advancement and merit badges.  Resist the parents that will constantly push to get signoffs and merit badges.  Make sure the kids know what is available, but let them want to do it.  It is their experience, not the parents.

Good Luck!

 

 

10 minutes ago, Eaglein87 said:

Can anyone comment on the ownership/relationship between Philmont and BSA National. Would Philmont be immune from divestiture brought on by Bankruptcy? How much funding does Philmont receive from BSA National? 

Also last thing BSA needs is a bailout by US government. Would be the worst case scenario.

 

I believe it is a trust from the Phillips family and not owned by BSA.  The money for running it comes from endowments.  I know that Sea Star Base Galveston is set up the same way.  I don't know about the others, but those two I know were started by someone who was mega-rich and wanted to give back in a way that protects the property.  An analogy is the Getty foundation runs off of the interest of the big pile of money that J Paul Getty donated and that balance doesn't get touched.  They even had to scale back investments on art because they had more money available.  So Philmont doesn't go away, but maybe it ends up more open to other groups that the Phillips foundation decides to support.

49 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I can’t decide if that comment is more stupid or offensive.

Are you too stupid to recognize that Scouting has been available to girls in America for more than 100 years? It’s called Girl Scouts USA.

Or is your intent to deliberately insult the GSUSA organization by somehow pretending they are not “real” Scouts?

As a father of Girls that were in the Girl Scout program and a person who was a registered Girl Scout leader, I am fully aware of the program and what it offers.  I am also fully aware of the fact that the programs are vastly different and provide different opportunities.  The comment was neither stupid or offensive.  It is you that decided to interpret it that way and try to shout me down for having a different opinion than yours.  

There is more than own religion in this country as well for more than 100 years.  Is it offensive or stupid to say that it is ok that there are Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, LDS members, Jews,....  What fits own person doesn't mean that there isn't room for the other.

I hope you have a good day.

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

Although a longtime Scouter, I joined this forum only last year, motivated by my concerns about the decision to admit girls into all aspects of BSA's programs. From the beginning, I have repeated in post after post that this girl decision reeked of desperation (specifically financial desperation). Why else would BSA National rush to ram through such a divisive decision? Why else would BSA National bungle so badly the premature announcement of a girl program that had not even been defined yet? (When announced, BSA's girl program was not half-baked - it wasn't even in the oven.) All they could say was "trust us - it will be wonderful".

I had predicted some sort of financial reorganization/bankruptcy was inevitable due to declining membership numbers and the huge debts incurred for construction of The Summit. However, I did not anticipate that liabilities over past sexual abuse claims would factor in so heavily. That element was not on my radar screen.

Although perhaps not the deciding factor, I have no doubt that BSA's precarious financial situation was also deliberated by LDS church leadership when deciding to end their century-long partnership.

With the stink of financial collapse in the air, combined with renewed visibility of past sexual abuse claims, BSA enrollments will go into freefall, forcing the unthinkable. Liquidation of properties like The Summit and Philmont is possible because BSA National doesn't have many other assets. Locally-owned council camps are not directly at risk, except that there will be fewer and fewer Scouts to make use of them.

BSA's desperation in their decision-making was in plain view for all to see. As part of a longtime Scouting family with three generations of Eagle Scouts, I am beyond sad to be right in my pessimism. I can only hope that my worst fears will somehow not be realized.

So you came in with the attitude that BSA was going to fail and know you are convinced they will?  

I have worked for companies that have restructured, gone bankrupt, and are thriving today.    The assumption that BSA enrollments will go into freefall is not a guarantee.  In the area that I am in there are more scouts joining this year than by previous years by a lot.  normally my old pack had a good year with 10 new scouts.  This year 40 new scouts joined, prior to any girls joining.  In February, there are at least 10 troops starting with girls that I know of in the close area where I am.  

Sea Scouting had a 10+% increase this last year and looks to continue to grow.

They pretty much knew they were going to add girls, writing was on the wall.  It was us and Saudi Arabia that were boys only.  They added them not full bore but with consideration of church values that allowed troops to not include girls.   

LDS leaving was written on the wall a while ago, IMHO BSA did a lot to appease them but the Church wants control of their own program.  Them leaving will have the most impact on enrollment and money lost.

Scouting will continue to evolve, that is a fact.  And it is possible it may be doomed.  But I do not agree with your pessimism.

 

IMHO, I think they should have separate accounts.  Each troop will eventually run their own program and need to control their own money.  If it is shared then the assumption is that they will always do the same thing.  The youth in each troop need to be able to run their own program and have their own PLC to define it.

He is in 5th grade and working on Star rank?  I am confused about that.  Yes the ASM in the troop can sign off on the Cyberchip.

Assuming the SM is ok with it.  I would have your son check with your advancement chair.

I love the fact that a merit badge counselor for cooking MB insists that requirements must be done with his troop.  He has already completed the patrol section of the merit badge.  So emails the merit badge counselor and tells her that the requirements in the merit badge book don't say that it has to be done with his troop.  The counselor replies back that he is correct and he can complete them on our family campout.

Both sides were respectful, btw, it was awesome to see a civil conversation via email between them where he pointed out a fact and it got accepted.    I think both of them learned a lesson and are better for it.