Brewmeister

Proponents of themes types of changes aren't seeking inclusiveness, they are seeking the destruction of an organization they do not truly value.

Obviously the two organizations are not the same, but the fact that the news was posted here, in what is predominantly a BSA forum, is done for a purpose other than to say, "Hey, take a look at something interesting that happened in Australia." It is posted here to make us believe that this type of change is an inevitable, inexorable progression of all things scouting toward godless, secular, all-inclusive organizations.

It's all part of the ongoing agenda of some to change the BSA, because they do not like the BSA, what it believes in, and what it stands for.

Frankly I don't understand why those who do not like the BSA spend countless hours of personal energy into trying to change it, particularly knowing full well that their purpose is not to join the organization but to see it disappear. To me that is the ultimate definition of intolerance.

Scouting is not mandatory. If you don't like what it believes, go do something else that fits your beliefs. And if you don't live your life according to the tenents of Scouting's beliefs, don't expect to remain part of the organization. Simple.

Some people won't be happy until Scouting is Godless and gay...at which point they still won't be happy because those who seek to force their viewpoints on others really want others not to exist at all.

Not bowing to political pressure and/or PC correctness to compromise its principles.

I would also offer the counterpoint that in my personal observation Eagle projects seem more complex as a rule today than when I went through the program. Maybe the rules have changed but I can't think of any projects in my old troop that required a fundraising component...they were all just "work" projects that paled in comparison to what I see being done today. Maybe my own troop was just a weak program.

The point about sports and real life is a good one. How many people will make a living in sports who currently play now? And how many people will need to get a job where they will put scout skills in use?

You have to give boys a sense of humor about these things. Let's be honest about how scouting is perceived by other boys. Let's put it this way, every boy is willing to wear his baseball uniform to school; how many are willing to wear a scout uniform? As I tell my son, "yeah you're a nerd, but nerds rule the world." Those other guys will be working for him someday.

My son gets it from his baseball team a bit, particularly because he occasionally misses games for scout stuff, including several tournaments this summer for scout camp. He just tells them, "you don't know what you're talking about because you're not in scouts" and leaves it at that.

But, it's tough. Kids are cruel.

There's a danger in assuming one knows everything that went into a project based solely on what can be seen from the outside. Maybe it did in fact go down that way, but just maybe it didn't.

Momof2, my comment is based on the fact that the whole family went--mom, dad, and extra son. Not just that an adult was needed.

This is not boy scouting. This is cub scout family camping.

Good grief. Totally rude and inconsiderate.

At a more fundamental I don't understand parents wanting to go with their sons to summer camp at all, let alone bring the family. If you want to have the family together go to a campground with your family.

Bizarre.

My son was sent to scout camp with an admonition by me to take AT LEAST TWO showers during the week.

I got technical compliance with the law.

I do not let him take off his baseball cleats in the car!

In some ways boys never change.

Hey 'fish--

Did you add a spreader bar to the top of the canopy as well? It looks like there is only one attachment rope, whereas most of the GI systems I have seen have multiple attachments to spread the canopy.

How large of a tarp are you using for your rainfly? It doesn't look that big in the picture but you have quite a bit of stuff under there.

It looks like getting the rainfly about 3' above the hammock is the key to getting a good "drape." Also looks like you are going horizontal with the rainfly guy wires rather than to the ground?

As to that survey, I am aware of those numbers, but that survey was taken almost immediately after the Act passed. As we get closer to 2014, those numbers have dropped, and when you go to benefit conferences, people are not talking about dropping their coverage. People are more worried about being able to attract talent to difficult to fill positions, and guess what, the employers that keep their health insurance benefit will be better able to attract that talent (isn't that the free market)?

The nations 100 largest employers will pay $111 billion in fines if they drop health insurance when Obamacare...er...ACA provisions are fully implemented in 2014, but it will cost them over $450 billion to provide ACA-compliant coverage.

The free market will indeed move this decision, and employer provided health plans will become as rare as defined-benefit pensions in the private sector.

We used a wooden wall plaque, long.

Two hooks screwed in to hold the arrows.

Boys used a wood burner to burn their names in.

Underneath we attached a large "arrow" made of red felt onto which they transferred all the significant patches from their uniform.

The range master can't say boo about it.

The Pack should simply go and award the pins if they believe the boy has earned it. There is no "signoff" required.

Employers are not dropping their health plans in droves...I know this because I work in HR.

Not YET.

A McKinley Quarterly study published last year found that 30% of employers planned to drop health insurance once ACA was fully implemented. That number rose to 60% among firms who were very familiar with the laws provisions.

Obamacare is a path to single payer; that has always been its intention.

Well, the answer to the last one would most likely be "he can."

You are correct that it is now settled law. To the Average Joe who is not a political junkie it is now "settled by the Supreme Court."

Not to mention the billions already spent, and to be spent, by fall as it relates to implementation. There is absolutely no way that a political party will be able to repeal it in light of that, and the fact that any attempt to do so will be successfully cast as "taking away your health care."

Now I don't wander into the IP forums much at all 'cause that's not why I'm here, but to say I am worried about the future of this legislation and impact is an understatement. Laws have unitendended consequences and this is a big one.

I will predict right now that we are 10 years away from single payer, because there is no way that the private insurance industry can survive in a profit-restricted, take-all-comers environment, "mandate" to purchase insurance notwithstanding.

I don't understand that, moose tracker.

How can you ever advance a boy if they don't cook and plan a meal?

Then again, how can the boys in my sons troop earn Tendefoot without a patrol flag and yell? Maybe it is a small thing, but it is in there.

Maybe I am just too literal, but it says DO something you must DO it...not do something perhaps a bit like it, or what you feel like doing. And second class 3G and 4e are pretty unambiguous.

Maybe I'm just naiive but I thought the pencil whipping stopped once mom and dad were no longer Akela.

But at this rate, if litttle league were like scouts, it would be ok for the parents to bat for the boys, different teams to have their own variations on the rules, and runs would score if the runner made it a little ways past third base.

The neighboring troop - which was 80-some odd years old - had the adults cook for the scouts. Their SM told our SM later "oh, we would never let the little guys cook for themselves..."

How the heck do any of the scouts advance beyond Tenderfoot? Even second class requires cooking.

One word: fear.

We are afraid that our children are going to be abducted, abused, molested, etc., so we prevent them from doing all the normal stuff we did as children and instead create structured situations where they have no responsibility or consequences.

We are afraid of children saying "my dad/mom/scout leader/Mr. Smith did such-and-such to me" and having our lives ruined so we avoid exercising authority over children, most especially children other than our own.

We are afraid of our children sitting on their psychiatrist's couch and blaming us for their failure in life so we try to prevent them from ever failing (which is impossible).

And so on.

We have the best of intentions--no one wants children to grow up to be big children. But we are afraid of the tough love required to help them become adults.

Even if advancement is the most visible thing, I think the purpose of scouting could be explained to parents (and participants) in terms of advancement requrirements.

"The purpose of scouting is for boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues.

So what does that mean?

It means that by about the end of his first year in scouting, he will be able to plan and organize the meals for an outing of his patrol. He will be able to navigate a 5-mile hike. He will be able to do XYZ...

And along the way we will recognize his proficiency in these skills with progressive badges of rank."

Or something like that.

beavah: I reckon our approach has to change within da next decade or BSA Scoutin' is goin' to be come irrelevant...At least da coach of the travel soccer team really pushes his boys to become proficient accordin' to the normal English meaning of the word, eh? Boys find that cool and satisfyin'. Families find it worthwhile. And that's just kickin' a silly ball around a field.

I just don't think that appealin' to the quick and easy credential crowd is a winning strategy for the long run.

Everybody who plays, coaches, or watches soccer understands the purpose, and sees how all the work players do is directly connected to building proficiency for that purpose.

The purpose of scouting is??? "...the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others..." and so on. Do all the participants in the game of scouting understand that purpose?

And how do the "spectators" assess the achievement of and proficiency in that purpose when there is no scoreboard?

It's little wonder that people look to advancement ("credentials") as the measurement of achievement of purpose. And, advancement is founded on completion of tasks, which implies there is no more to do once those tasks have been completed.

Just some random thoughts...it gets back to my "journey versus the destination" topic.(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

Basementdweller writes:

Youth sports has dramatically increased since the 60's....Soccer, Baseball, Football, lacross, hockey, tennis,

Perhaps, but perhaps that is changing:

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110522/NEWS/105220327

And Little League has been in particular deline:

http://www.sentinel-echo.com/localsports/x1058960971/On-the-decline

http://www.infosports.com/baseball/arch/3109.htm

Here's the nut of it if you don't want to wade through it all: "In 2011, overall participation in Little League nationally dropped by 20,820 players and 1,388 teams. In the Little League division (ages 9-12) baseball dropped 783 teams and 11,745 players while softball dropped 183 teams and 2,745 players."

Now, the question arises, why would Little League be in decline? Did it go through a period akin to "urban scouting" or otherwise stray from its roots? Hardly--baseball is still baseball.

So what else is going on with what's happening to youth, and are there parallels between Little League and Scouting as it relates to decline?

Perhaps: He said there is so much going on nowadays in families and so many other options for children after-school activities like band, theater and dance and karate, judo draining participation from organized sports.

"There's a lot of different things for kids to do that didn't exist 10 to 15 years ago," he said.

When I was a boy, Scouting is what there was to do. And we didn't have video games.

Now?(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

I wrote on this a while ago under the topic of "what ever happened to sandlot baseball?"

Back in the day, kids would play baseball because they liked it. Now, they play baseball because their parents put them in it and dad is reliving his childhood.

The tournaments are big money...they are not going away.

What I find funny (meaning "annoying") is that people will complain that 2 den meetings and a pack meeting per month is "too much," but they will have Junior in a league with 4 practices a week and touranments on weekends.

And of course, sports always seems to come first when scheduling conflicts arise.

I'm not sure how we ever headed down this path of child-professional sports teams.