Brewmeister

Wasted resources working with Webelos who don't join the troop?

Recruiting is a large endeavor for our pack. We recruit in spring. We recruit in fall. We do open houses, bring a friend days, and hold special recurring activities. We don't get all the boys who show up. One time we only got one out of a dozen.

I'm not looking to pick a fight here but the attitude I see in the real world and here is that Cub Scouts does the recruiting, and Boy Scouts are supposed to be the beneficiaries of 5 years worth of preparation.

That's just how it comes off to me. If not, why is there not more of a discussion about how to successfully recruit new 6th graders?(This message has been edited by Brewmeister)

In the three years I was a den leader we never once saw the SM or anyone from our sister troop. Boys just went there, or dropped out. Who knows, never saw them again. But no one shopped around.

When my son chose a different troop (not at my prompting), the SM of our sister troop wasn't too happy. Oh well.

My experience is that many troops just expect the scouts to come from Cubs and do little outreach. There are of course exceptions.

And then, when it doesn't work, it is Cub Scoutings fault!

By the way, what ever happened to recruiting new scouts into Boy Scouts? Seemed to me there's someone on these boards who always advocates that...

Sorry but this is just a little thing...

So my son gets a handbook a few months ago and we invest in the ring bound one thinking it would be easier to use.

Then we get the green canvas sleeve so it will last longer.

The problem is that the cover of the ring bound book does not lay well in the sleeve pockets. It gets all curved up at the binding and I don't think it's going to last a year.

Does this make sense to anyone out there and do you have any suggestions? Like I said this isn't a real earth shattering problem, just really annoying...

Not all COs charter a pack and a troop. Our Pack's CO does not charter a troop, and our sister/feeder troop is chartered by a different CO.

My son did not join our sister troop, but that was not because of recruiting. It's because I took him to a bunch of different troops, and he picked the one that he liked.

It's unfortunate you've run into heavy-handed recruiting, but troops and the scouters in them don't own the Pack.

[Edited for spelling.]

(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

Currently our unit uses Scoutlaner strictly for the calendar function with reminders. What we like about this is the roles-based reminders; i.e., each den leader can set up meetings and reminders go ONLY to the den. Or we can set meetings up for just leaders, or the entire pack.

The drawback is that Scoutlander is difficult to navigate, a bit slow, and not good for things like photos, docs, etc.

We would like to have one site that does more and costs nothing.

We have looked at:

-All kinds of other Scout-specific sites (Scoutmanage, Scout Track, etc.)--none offer any advantage b/c we don't need the advancement stuff.

-Google calendars. Super-easy to use, but does not (or does not appear to) support different groups and roles unless everyone has a gmail address, which not everyone does.

-Blogs (wordpress, blogspot, etc.). Appears we can only embed another calendar in there, but this looks to be a good option for providing photos, links, forms, etc. if we can do it.

Wish list:

1. Roles-based calendar like we have with Scoutlander

2. Email reminders to any email address we set up

3. Ability to put photos, embed docs/google docs, forms, etc.

Thanks for the kind offer, Eagle, but unless they're the same type of trailers Baden Powell used to take the canoes to the Brownsea Island boat launch in 1907, I'm afraid I can't accept. As a den mother I could help you decorate them though.

Actually we just came back from a Webelos camping weekend. We had to bring in all our gear and grub and there was nary a patrol box...er, "den box?"...to be found.

Well, there WAS one lonely trailer that I saw being used by a den. However, it was emblazoned "Troop xxx" on the side. Curse that Boy Scout influence!

Although I will say that with a trailer that big, I could really hold a lot of macaroni crafts.

Lose the Patrol Boxes and you lose Cub Scouting's grip on the Boy Scout Program.

I knew that somehow this had to be cub scouting's fault. Thanks for clearing that up!

Looks like Beavah and I were typing at the same time, but he said it better.

Essentially, I can't imagine going to families before a pack campout and say "Sorry, families can't tent together." As a rule I try not to look stupid in front of the group.

If there was specific verbiage that said "It is acceptable for direct family members of different genders to share the same tent in a pack/family camping situation," someone would have found it by now.

So the decision will have to be made about whether to follow common sense (IMO) and common practice and let families tent together, or to fall back on guidebook to require families to bring multiple tents.

The first time I took BALOO training about 5 years ago, they actually told us that mom was not allowed to be in same tent with cub scout son.

That would make our district's popular "Mom and Son" tent camping event somewhat hard to accomplish...

You have to look at the guide in total. What is trying to be accomplished? Obviously it is separation of unrelated males and females, and ensuring that youth do not sleep in the quarters of adult(s) who they are not related to. And has been stressed, the guide is as much about the protection of units and leaders as it is about the protection of youth. The objective is to ensure a situation is avoided where a child would be exposed to risk that he or she would not normally be exposed to.

So now take the intent of the rule and apply it to your pack/family camping situation. Related family members tenting together would cause what potential risk to the child? None. Or at least none that would not exist outside the Scouting scenario.

If you are not comfortable with that, contact your district and find out who the cub scout trainer is, or your DE, and just ask them for a clarification. Then you will have your official word that you can follow.

Saying yes is an oversimplification. This is the generation of X games after all. I know I wouldn't go anywhere near a half pipe.

By the way, the yellow stress card is an urban legend.

I didn't understand why it uses the position of 'Pack Commissioner' instead of 'Committee Chair.'

I'm not entirely sure but I believe that is a very old term for what became Committee Chair. The reason I say this is that our old committee chair, who had been with the pack for decades, was wearing a "unit commissioner" patch on the uniform because that was what the CC thought their position was. Needless to say that caused a little confusion.

Advice, not much, but we do go over how the program is different from Cubs and a bridge between Cubs and Boy Scouts. So that means no more parents signing off on books, etc. It means we will be doing even more camping, more stuff away from the pack, and more stuff with our sister scout troop.

Step 2, we say there are only a few activity badges we "need" as a Den for advancement--Citizen, Fitness, and Outdoorsman. What do you, as Scouts, want to do, and what can you, as parents, help with? Because the nice thing about Webelos is that the badges are very distinct.

I have prepared various handouts that I give parents, including an interest/activity signup form, Webelos program overview, and a Webelos handout for new scouts, since we do tend to pick up new scouts as boys spread the word about the program. If you send me a PM with your email I can send them to you if you are interested.

Common sense and good leadership says don't give a Tiger cub a 10' aluminum extension roller when there is an exposed powerline 8 feet overhead.

For that matter, both Cub and Webelos camps in our area use a combination of two- and four-wheeled carts to haul gear around. I guess we need to make sure that only adults use those to pull gear to camp.

Should a boy try to manhandle a wheelbarrow full of concrete? No. Can he push one around on a park cleanup? Yes.

Blanket guidelines such as these discourage true leadership and good decision-making.

YMMV...

Came across this link in another forum:

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf

Are you kidding me? No paint rollers or carts to be used by under 14? Most boys above tiger age can handle electric screwdrivers, small sanders, and even Dremels IMO.

Heck, our 9 and 10 year old Webelos were using post hole diggers at a council camp last summer to put in a trail sign.

I guess these are just "guidelines" and not "rules."

My question is, does anyone care if we give out these knots even if all the requirements are not met?

I do!

The only thing I'd add would be a discussion with the SM over this issue, to put him in the picture and find out what he wants to do.

I am planning on doing this...it needs a face to face meeting to be positive, IMO.(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

Thanks for the input on this.

Here's what I did. As I said, my first job was to go back to my son get to the bottom of exactly what they did and what they didn't rather than just having a general impression. So rather than just ask him some questions I printed off that handy MB worksheet (the same one they were using in class), had him sit down with it, and went through it with him, point by point.

Having the familiar sheet really helped him recall and explain things. (He's more of a visual learner, and remember that they did half of it four weeks ago.) So the good news is that they had in fact gone through all the "explain and discuss" parts of the badge.

The bad news is that there is still no way to fit 12 weeks into 4, so the whole "create a fitness plan and improve" part was pretty much a whiff.

I then asked my son if he felt he completed the badge. He said, "Well, it says 12 weeks and we didn't do that part." I asked him what he thought he should do, and he said he wanted to complete the requirements.

Next, if you recall from my original post, I had asked the counselor about the requirements I knew my son couldn't do until his wrist was healed. So I contacted the counselor and told him my son didn't want the badge awarded until he completed all the requirements. And oh, by the way, the way that my son reads the requirements, he is supposed to do a 12-week program of improvement, so that is what he is going to do and it will therefore take a while to get it done.

Regarding whether this is a one-time whiff or larger problem of shortcutting requirements, it's simply too soon for me to address that, but I will keep a watch on it.

Or, even better, hopefully my son will recognize it based on this experience.

Now, I'm sure there are people who will disagree this course of action. Maybe it doesn't follow the proper protocol, but I feel it is right and that he can look back someday on that particular badge, whether or not he pursues his Eagle, and know that he earned it.

The problem with shopping around is that you really don't know what to look for.

You can be armed with all the questions in the world and go to meetings and outings but it takes some time in the unit to really uncover how good a fit it is.

If I were to do it over again, I wouldn't have presented any options to my son and just let him cross to our sister troop. Then after a period of time I would see how well it was working for him. Instead we spent quite a bit of time window shopping yet are still unsure if it's the right unit for him.

When you go shopping as an inexperienced scout parent, you don't know what you don't know.

To answer a few questions from the above posts--

The MBC for this "class" is an ASM in the troop.

I don't know if this is just one thing or an indicator of a "check the box and get 'er done" mentality. Being new to the troop and Boy Scouting in general (as a parent), the learning curve is a bit steep!!! So when an opportunity comes up for son to earn a badge and he wants to go, you sign up him up, right? Now I know to keep my eyes and ears open as I watch from the sidelines.

Before my son crossed over we visited three different troops and participated in several activities. He chose this one. There were some things I saw that weren't the way I would have done them (true for the other two units as well) but I also realized that after being a Cub Scout leader for so long I knew I needed a bit of "deprogramming" so I was going to just roll with the flow and let him make the call.

Anyway, I want to try to work toward a positive going-forward solution, because this is where he wants to be. Like I said, stay tuned....

We're talking about something that rightly anyone with an ounce of integrity should be angered about and stirred to take action to correct. So this is not the case of some helicopter parent over reacting and whining.

This is the nut of it. I am angered about the process but, as a new Boy Scout parent, I wanted to be sure that my anger is justified. It appears I am correct in my judgment that the process was pencil-whipped if in fact the details are what I believe they are (which is my next step to verify).

As I also said, I don't want to be "one of those parents." That is not an excuse or a cop-out and I am not afraid to address this. However, the fact still remains that I *AM* just a parent; i.e., with no troop leadership authority and no authority to approve or deny a particular badge.

Yet also as a parent, is my responsibility to help guide my son to make the right decisions in life. Ultimately, HE is the Scout now, not I. That is my next step, and I will inform you of the results.

Here's what I think I am going to do.

First, it's important I have all the information before charging off on any path. I do know that yes, it the MB and not tenderfoot requirements.

Then, I will print a full copy of the MB worksheet and go through it with my son on paper rather than just asking him questions. See if he feels they have covered everything. As you know, sometimes boys don't remember everything right.

Then, I will call the counselor and say, I know he was signed off on this, but he doesn't feel right with having it awarded before he actually does all the requirements. And oh by the way, we talked about it and he doesn't recall doing x, y, and z either. Did you cover those?

I think I know the answers already but I need to be sure.

Where I am really struggling with this personally is that as a PARENT I am not supposed to have to deal with this, so I thought. This was the big difference between Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts..."Son, it is now up to you to chart your own path and take responsibility for your own stuff."

PLEASE people! My son has been a scout for two months. The badge has not even been awarded yet. Nothing is tarnished.

There is plenty of time to do the right thing.

By the same token I do not know what the right thing is because I am very new to having a boy in Boy scouts.

This is why I am asking the question.

I know you are probably trying to helpful and I appreciate it but you are coming off as very critical toward me. Would it have been better if I had not asked the question here?

Give me your input, and please give me some time before you toss the darts. I did not expect to have to deal with this.