BrentAllen

nld,

Add in the fact that the victim apparently had very little to eat (1 granola/fruit/energy bar) over that time period. He was carrying much more. No food, lots of water - starts to sound like hyponatremia, or some other underlying issue with the boy. That was a long time on the trail for 15 miles.

Beavah turned the question into a legal issue, which is one side of it. But what if Tom now gets stung (turns out there was a nest, not just one bee/wasp/yellow jacket), and you just used his one and only Epi-pen on Bill? Now what?

The text book answer is you only administer the Epi-pen to the person it is prescribed for. You check to make sure it hasn't expired and, if you can see the medication, that the fluid is clear, not cloudy. If expired or cloudy liquid, do not administer. Text book answer.

Reality, hopefully Tom has more than one Epi-pen or he has a Twinject, and you do what you can to save a Scout's life.

How many of us have Benadryl in our First Aid kits? How many of us have chewable Benadryl in them? After going through this class I added both to ours. We don't have anyone in our Troop who is prescribed an Epi-pen.

RememberSchiff,

You are correct, there is no reciprocity between SOLO and ARC regarding their WFA courses. Also know that there is no prerequisite to take any WFA course in order to be able to take SOLO AWFA.

ARC has partnered with the BSA to teach our target market, Scouters. There will probably be other volunteer-based organizations that follow our lead. Sorry to hear your experience has been sub-par.

We cover Epi-pens in WRFA and even have demonstration pens for participants to practice with. We usually have a scenario involving them, as well. The question comes up, if, out on a trip, you had a Scout (Bill) get stung and goes into anaphylactic shock who did not have an Epi-pen, and there was another Scout (Tom) on the trip who had a pen, would you take the pen from Tom and use it on Bill who was going into shock? I'll come back later and post our staff answer. What would you do?

Beavah,

The ARC Course is identical to SOLO in regard to time (16 hours) and testing, yet you put the SOLO course on a pedestal and poo-poo ARC. What gives? Sure, I'm not an EMT but we aren't teaching skills requiring EMT knowledge. A Troop isn't likely to have an EMT on their trip, nor the equipment an EMT would have. The really nice thing the ARC WRFA offers that SOLO can't is the experience of dealing with a Boy Scout Troop. We have a pretty good idea of the equipment a Troop will have on a trip, including their First Aid equipment. We have a pretty good idea of the age of the participants and their skills, and the types of trips they will be on. SOLO is teaching to a much broader audience, and probably much older. I'm sure they know their stuff, but they won't know our audience nearly as well as we will.

Before you start criticizing, maybe you should actually take a course and see what it is all about.

From SOLO:

IS THERE AN EXAM?

Yes, there is ongoing evaluation of practical skills, and there are written assessments throughout the course.

DO I GET CERTIFIED?

Yes. You will receive a SOLO WFA certification, which is good for two years.

From the Philmont web page:

First Aid and CPR Certification

Philmont requires that at least one person (preferably two) in each crew be currently certified in Wilderness First Aid or the equivalent and CPR from the American Heart Association, the American Red Cross, or the equivalent. Several hours may be required for Philmont staff to reach a remote backcountry location after a message is delivered to the nearest staffed camp. First aid and CPR training will result in proper and prompt attention being given to injuries and/or illnesses. You must present current certification cards upon check-in to verify this requirement.

I don't know your definition of "certification" but the rest of us appear to all be speaking the same language.

I'd have absolutely no problem telling a Scout he can't attend, if I didn't think he was up to it. We have a 4 day, 3-night backpacking trip to Cumberland Island coming up next month. I told Scouts last year that to be able to attend, they had to go on some of our other weekend backpacking trips. Their first backpacking trip with the Troop WILL NOT be a 4-day, 3-nighter on an island. Weight would be the same issue. Skills, weight, proper equipment - any of those issues could keep a Scout off a trip.

Moose - we do weigh-ins on all our backpacking trips, both Scouts and adults (we have scales as part of our Troop equipment). We make sure everyone is not carrying more than 25% of body weight. If we had questions about a Scouter's weight, it would be out in the open at one of these weigh-ins.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

I think that is why ARC has teamed up with the BSA. The large majority of our instructors are experienced SMs and ASMs. Time around the campfire with other instructors usually involves tales from many High Adventure trips. At age 47 with 3 years as SM and 2 HA trips under my belt, I think there's only one instructor "younger" than me in terms of age and experience on BSA trips, and he has a lot of experience in Ski Patrol. I got to be his guinnea pig when he demonstrated an improvised leg traction splint for a broken femur. Yeah, that was fun. He knew his stuff!

Beavah,

From the Instructor's Manual:

Certification Requirements

Red Cross certification means that on a particular date an instructor verified that a course participant could:

* Demonstrate competency in each required skill taught in a course. Competency is defined as being able to perform each skill to meet the objective without guidance.

* If the written exam is required, pass the final written exam with a minimum grade of 80 percent. If the final written exam has more than one section, a minimum grade of 80 percent must be achieved on each section.

Achieving course certification does not imply any future demonstration of knowledge or skill at the level achieved on the particular date of course completion.

To successfully complete the Wilderness and Remote First Aid course and receive a certificate indicating Wilderness and Remote First Aid, the participant must:

* Attend all class sessions

* Participate in all skill sessions and activities

* Demonstrate competency in all observable skills

* Complete the scenarios.

An optional final written exam is included in the appendices if needed for certification. If the exam is required, participants must pass the final written exam with a minimum of 80 percent.

**************************

We have always given the written test, and assume we will in the future. It is only one section, 25 questions.

Scratch that - the new ARC WFA course certification is two years, like the SOLO course. ARC was three years.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

Beav,

The ARC Course changed names and text last year, it is now the Wilderness and Remote First Aid Course. The new Student text and Instructor manuals are much, much better.

The previous Student Guide was 8.5 x 11 black and white booklet, 57 pages. We also used the Mountaineering First Aid book - a good text. One of the big problems with the old course was it jumped back and forth between the two books, often causing a lot of confusion with the students.

The new text is refered to as an "Emergency Reference Guide", 6.5 x 9.5, color book similar to other ARC books, 111 pages. A pretty good Pocket Guide is also provided. One of the biggest improvements, IMO, is the course teaches when to Go Slow - evacuate slowly, and when to Go Fast - evacuate rapidly - for different illnesses and injuries.

The new ERG devotes a full page each to Heat Exhaustion, Heat Stroke and Hyponatremia. The text notes that "A patient with hyponatremia will appear to have heat exhaustion. DO NOT treat it as heat exhaustion (i.e. give water). This will harm the person." It then gives some additional details to distinguish between heat exhaustion and hyponatremia. This could be very easy to misdiagnose.

The Guidelines for Evacuation: Go Fast - anyone with an altered mental status or who has had a seizure as a result of heat stroke. GO Slow - anyone who does not fully recover from heat exhaustion or mild hyponatremia.

The old Instructor Manual was 8.5 x 11 black and white booklet for a 3-ring binder, around 115 pages. The new manual is 8.5 x 11 black and white pages in a book, around 200 pages. Much better, IMO.

The editors for the original program included college professors from UNC, Asheville, Brevard College and Clemson. They were all ARC Instructors in many courses. Of the 5, two were WFR, one of them SOLO. The course was developed out of the Transylvania County Chapter, ARC, Brevard, NC.

Our Council offers both ARC and SOLO WFA courses. Someone put together a quick and dirty comparison of the courses. I know it isn't what you are looking for, but here it is: http://www.atlantabsa.org/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=1456&id=19652

I'm an ARC Instructor so I may be biased, but I think the ARC WFA course is very good. We have a team of instructors which includes MDs, EMTs, Nurses and WFRs. That may not be typical for most councils. One of the strengths of the course is the scenarios, especially those involving multiple victims. Participants learn how to work as a team so each person plays a part, with a team captain watching the big picture and directing resources where needed.

If you really want to learn the material, don't just take the course - become an instructor and teach a couple of courses each year. Becoming an ARC Instructor isn't easy or cheap, but it is worth it. The ARC Instructor course was $150. Our council reimbursed me $50 for each WFA course I staffed over the next two years, up to the $150.

Side note - as of Jan. 1, 2011 the new ARC CPR/AED certs are good for two years, instead of one.

$1,000,000 liability umbrella policy. Yes, I have one. No, they are not very expensive, depending on what coverage you already have. Mine cost less than $200 per year. I added it mainly because my son is approaching driving age.

Edited to add, get as many of your leaders trained in Wilderness and Remote First Aid (notice the name change). We learned last night at our Council Summer Camp Kick-Off meeting that the course will be offered during Summer Camp at Woodruff. I don't know who is going to staff it. Don't just settle for one leader in the unit getting trained.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

A quick weather history search for both Everglades City and Copeland, FL show the high for May 9, 2009 at 89.5 F. Humidity was very high, at 96% which is what I would expect.

Some things in the complaint are ridiculous, IMO - they didn't have proper communication devices?

If the complaint is correct (and it doesn't appear to be, looking at the temperature claim) and they stopped for 1 1/2 hours before calling for help and the Scout was continually getting worse, that is surprising.

As others have said, lots of unanswered questions.

The best tip I can give you is watch Ebay for a while to get familiar with the prices, and then wait to buy until June. When I bought mine in the summer, I think I got it for $38, it is in great shape. Prices were much higher during the cold weather. Nobody wants to think about wool when it's 95 degrees outside, so you should see fewer bidders and lower prices.

Mine is a size 44, and I wear a 44 coat. It is a little big, which is fine with me. This jacket is an older version, 100% Wool. There is another small tag in the neckline, with the number 553 on it.

I believe newer versions are 85% wool. I think sizes still run pretty true.

You will see a lot of size 42's. Larger sizes don't show up as often, but they are out there, just be patient.

I'd start with getting them a copy of "The Chartered Organization Representative" #33118D from the Scout Shop. It is around a dozen pages and does a very good job of explaining how the COR interacts with the organization, unit, district and council. I'm hoping it is still in print.

8 out of 20 - that was tough, but fun!

Thanks for posting!

gjjennell,

Welcome! I'm in the same boat, sworn in as the new District Commissioner in November. Our RT program has been hurting, partly because it was held on Tuesday nights, when several of our units (mine included) met. So, first thing I did was move it to Thursday.

Second, I brought on a very charismatic Scouter for Boy Scout RT Commissioner. Luckily, he said yes, because I really didn't have a plan B. I am working with him to come up with an agenda for each monthly meeting and advertise. Get some emails out early to generate some excitement. We want to make sure the program isn't just a lecture, and isn't just a bunch of announcements or other info that can be handled by email or web pages. We will also send out emails after the meeting, with a "this is what you missed..." section, a little report showing the number of Scouters attending from each unit, and a breakdown of their positions - so many SMs, so many CCs, ASMs, MCs, etc.

Third, we are having a "King of Roundtable!" contest. It runs 12 months long, with each monthly winner being the unit that has the most attendees at RT. I picked up a stuffed Kung Fu Panda that we are decorating with "Hightower Trail King of Roundtable" and some other items. The winning unit gets to take the "King" home with them for the month and can add a small decoration (totem, etc) to it. The "King" will also have a braided para-cord necklace on which the monthly winner gets to attach their unit numbers. At the end of the year, the necklace will have 12 unit numbers attached - everyone can see who has been winning. For each month, the winner will receive three points, second place will receive two points, and third place will receive one point. The unit with the most points in December will be crowned "The King of Roundtable!" and will get to keep the "King" and take home some prizes I plan on getting donated. Yes, it is silly and fun - if I am going to participate in something, it is going to be fun. If it isn't fun, why do it?

Fourth, we will have a suggestion box with index cards for suggestions and feedback.

Fifth, we will have our Commissioner meeting right before RT, and UCs will be at RT to welcome leaders from their units, and help with RT however they can. RT and Unit Commissioners will work together as a team.

Sixth, we are setting up a new district web site, using SOAR. We have a web site, but it is pretty static, and allows no email communication. Through SOAR, committee chairs can add their own content and we can all see who is registered to the web page from each unit. Right now we are using a Yahoo Group and an email group on one of our member's computers. We have no idea who is or isn't on the Yahoo Group. To send out email, we have to send it to one of two people so they can send it out on their list. Luckily they are very responsive, but I have no idea who is or isn't receiving notices. The SOAR web site will help us with this, as well as being able to automatically send out a weekly E-Blast showing upcoming events.

Seventh, I'm still looking for more ideas...(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

He was one man I truly would liked to have met and shaken his hand. Ambrose's statements at the end of the piece certainly apply to me:

Ambrose, the author of Band of Brothers, said in a 2001 BBC interview that he hopes young people say. I want to be like Dick Winters.

Not necessarily as soldiers, but as that kind of leader, that kind of man, with basic honesty and virtue and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong, Ambrose said.

There is one church in the neighboring district that charters 2 Packs (143, 2143), 3 Troops (143, 2143, 3143) and 1 Crew (43).

Yep, nobody is going to say anything about wearing unit numbers above your COR patch. It is up to each of us to determine if we want to wear the uniform correctly and completely.

In the Insignia Guide, the COR patch is shown on page 39, with the description "Chartered Organization Representative, council Scouter." This follows the position description and diagram on page 38 for the Universal and Nonunit Insignia, which does not include unit numbers.. The BSA considers CORs to be council Scouters, not Unit Scouters.

Well, I'm still missing something. Are we talking about the DAM or Silver Beaver? Is that what this is all about? I can't think of any "reward" or perk or anything that national or council can offer. What am I missing?

I guess I am missing something. The only member of our committee who wears a uniform is our CC, and he camps as much as I do. He's been on our Northern Tier and Sea Base trips. None of that has anything to do with his job as CC. He could never go camping, and still be a great CC.

"National rewards well those who don't go outdoors and don't work with youth."

How? Exactly. What is their reward? Examples?

Troop Committee:

COR

CC

Secretary

Treasurer

Advancement Coordinator

Training Coordinator

Membership Chair

I fail to see how filling those positions with an "outdoor" person is going to change the program. Seems like we have many threads here complaining about having too many adults on campouts. These folks are already supporting the Troop's outdoor program, by doing their job. They deal with the business side of the Troop, not the program side.

District Committee:

DC Chair

Training Chair

Advancement Chair

Finance Chair

Membership Chair

Ditto the statement above.

I'm curious which knots have gotten your skivies in a wad? Exactly which knots are MCs and district Scouters sitting around earning and flaunting that is bothering you so much?

I have to say, of all the issues we have discussed here, this one has to be the most ridiculous.

Sorry, but I disagree. We need district and council Scouters, to do what they do. Conduct training, provide Roundtable, help with recharter, oversee council properties, etc. Our district committee has several members who are retired, in their 60's or better, and they find areas where they can serve. They don't go on high adventure trips or many camping trips, but they don't need to. Camping is handled at the Troop level. The district serves the units by providing support - training, RT, etc. District volunteers don't need to go camping to serve units. They can help a unit recruit additional Scouters - that would be their best way to serve a unit.

Taking district and council Scouters out of uniform would do nothing to get Troops outdoors more. Taking them out of uniform would serve no purpose at all, except to decrease the number of Scouters who are willing to stay in the program and help after their sons age out.

I still prefer Haley Barbour. Obama is going to have a difficult run in 2012, no matter who he is up against. The electoral college will be different, and not in his favor. According to exit polls, Obama has lost much of the white vote, and it isn't coming back.

White Flight

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/in-2012-obama-may-need-a-new-coalition-20110105?page=1

Excerpt:

By any standard, white voters rejection of Democrats in Novembers elections was daunting and even historic.

Fully 60 percent of whites nationwide backed Republican candidates for the House of Representatives; only 37 percent supported Democrats, according to the National Election Poll exit poll conducted by Edison Research. Not even in Republicans 1994 congressional landslide did they win that high a percentage of the white vote.

Moreover, those results may understate the extent of the white flight from the Democratic Party, according to a National Journal analysis of previously unpublished exit-poll data provided by Edison Research.

The new data show that white voters not only strongly preferred Republican House and Senate candidates but also registered deep disappointment with President Obamas performance, hostility toward the cornerstones of the current Democratic agenda, and widespread skepticism about the expansive role for Washington embedded in the partys priorities. On each of those questions, minority voters expressed almost exactly the opposite view from whites

I played baseball every year from pee-wee up to high school, and loved every minute of it. I played city, county and/or church league basketball from 5th grade up through high school. Ran track in high school, 880, mile, 2-mile. Probably not considered a sport, but required the same, if not more, time - played trumpet from 6th grade thru high school, including marching band. Still had time for nearly every camping trip and meeting in the Troop (my father was CC for the Troop). Dad burned a lot of gas getting me to games and campouts on the same weekend.