yelruh

If you have someone who is an instructor who can teach CPR, and review the Hemlich Maneuver, great. But they should know they aren't teaching the whole CPR course, which is much more, and usually has a cost involved. The Hemlich Maneuver is actually more useful and successful, and more likely to be used by the scouts anyway.

I think life saving MB requires being CPR certified by Red Cross or Heart Assoc.

Our troop did sales out side a WAWA (convience/gas store_ all this past weekend, opening popcorn weekend, Fri evening, Sat & Sunday during the day. The boys know it's only this first weekend, and we are suppose to be the only troop at this store. In the time my son, my spouse and I were there we sold nothing over $10.00. Why do they have the $40 & $50 tins? They have almost nothing in them, I looked, they weren't sealed.

One thing my 17 year old, 6 foot, 2 inch tall son doesn't have going for him is cute, another negative is he's quite shy. They ended up opening two containers so there were samples as a marketing comeon. One thing my son learned to say when someone demured about buying the popcorn, that they were asked about from his co-seller was "we also can accept cash donations." In the time he worked they took in twice as much in donations as sales, with some of it being just change.

I think double dipping has to be from the Scout Masters eyes. There are a lot of places where it would be ok, others a gray area, and others a NO WAY. One NO ONE comes to mind. Community Service because you did something stupid, and the police/courts got involved, and you end up cleaning/painting the local playground.

When I was going to night school to get my BA, I ended up taking two literature classes back to back. Both required 11 books to be read for the term. It turns out that the same instructor was teaching both courses and there was an overlap of 2 books. So I only had to read 20 books, not 22. The instructor didn't have me read an additional couple of books, but I had to sit through the overlapping books classes, since he taught different areas in the different classes.

Did he have a problem with my "double" dipping, heck no, he was amazed that I'd take such a heavy load. I got A's in both classes, mainly because these were english electives, and I was an English Major, and actually read the books, and knew what I was talking about.

I've seen it done a number of different ways. One way that hasn't been mentioned, and it seemed to work fairly well, was that everything was cleaned, folded neatly and in ziplock bags, and labeled with size and condition and price. In the pocket was a card with who it came from and if they wanted cash, or use the money as a donation to the troop, sort of like a consignment shop. That way all shorts weren't $5.00, some almost brand new ones in a popular size maybe $15.00. This way all the "good" stuff isn't grabbed, with the crummy almost worn out stuff sitting forever.

Usually socks, hats and belts, are just loose and no charge for them, if you are buying something.

Ebay often has "lots" if you are looking for 2 medium adult shirts, you may end up with 2 smalls, which of course are too small for anyone except the youngest scouts.

What I think is weird, but human nature, is that new scouts, buy new stuff, and only when they outgrow it are looking for used stuff in larger sizes, but then all you have is small stuff......

Our family has two "mediums", one "large" and one "2XX".

It is, but if he's interested, and you can find a troop that you think can work, I'd go for it.

It would be best if he moved up in rank quickly. Most SM don't like to see a boy being pushed, but in this case facilitating his advancement by mentoring him on what he needs to do might be a good idea. I know if you leave it to the scout, it can take awhile for them to "get" what they need to do to advance.

My son changed troops at 17, and a Star scout. He finished up Life, and is the Troop Guide to the new scout patrol 3 months later. It is actually a good match, because it's leadership, without being in the race for Senior Patrol Leader. Also the newest Scouts don't really see him as a Newbie, because they are too!

I sew all the patches in our family, for for different people. I actually like to sew, and get it to look good. I've developed a collection of matching threads, so nothing shows.

I don't staple, I use duct tape cut in half, and then X'ed across the patch, I remove it as I go, never had any residue, except for the used shirt, where someone duct taped, underneath the patch.

I don't like pockets either, I solved the problem a bit, by using a cardboard insert, so that I don't have to stick my hand in all the time. The needle hits the cardboard and skates across it. Takes a bit of work, but some angles are really hard in pockets.

What I hate are the "segmented" year patches, the pieces never look all that great. I only know that no matter how uneven our are, there are others that are worse.

Dan,

I agree, Pulp and Paper is a fine MB, I'm also a MBC for it. We've done about 70 scouts. It's the only MB that I've seen that looks like a hack one, but isn't.

The requirements just changed, so I'll have to read the new ones, before I do then next group. I did 10 scouts in August for Graphic Arts, some of them are interested in Pulp and Paper, especially the papermaking part, but honestly, I think they just want the patch.

Re: The Composites MB, some of the boys in our troop like to make skateboards and are already talking about who in the troop can teach it!

I'm sure someone could make it in a Dutch Oven, but it's so hard getting all the "correct" ingredients.

"HAGGIS"

Thanks for the update. It's interesting the father was an ASM, and attended meetings, and the boy having an older son who was an Eagle, meant they hopefully knew the program.

Having changed troops several times because the right "match" wasn't there, I understand not wanting to change, but also realize that getting used to a new group is far better than a group that doesn't work for your family. My younger son is face blind, it takes him a long time to recognize people, he looks at hair, glasses, body shape, voice, stance etc. etc., he can't even tell anymore, it's an involved process. He's been learning to fake it until he gets to really know someone. That's one of the reasons why we didn't like to change troops.

I also don't understand the troop not letting another adult take the place of the father. Then again we just left a troop were the SM didn't like parents going on camping trips, and refused to let my spouse go to summer camp this year.

Gern,

I think you hit the nail on the head. I know how to tie a bunch of knots. I just use what I think will work for whatever job I'm doing. If asked what the name was, half the time, I'd come up blank.

Part of the time is the name doesn't relate easily to the knot. Other times it's because you don't use it enough to get it into long term memory.

I've helped teach Pioneering several times. I learned back splices inside and out, and will never forget it. Once you have the crown knot, you're most of the way there. But if I hadn't helped teach it over and over? I'd have to look it up in a book to do it.

I got it too... But to add to the mystery, I just got an email from the local council! Never got one of them before.

The local one talked about starting to use email for cuting down on printing and mailing costs.

I just reread the updated story, through the link post just recently. One thing stuck out to me this time. They are comparing going on a school trip with a Boy Scout overnight.

Public education is required to be free and be appropriate, and in the least restrictive environment. If the school trip was part of the curriculum, then the school HAS to make the trip work for any student. The question I would have is what did the school have to do to make it work?

Also on a more global scale, what training did the adults, teachers or aids who went on this trip have for dealing with kids? vs. what is required of a SM?

There is also the issue of Paid vs. Volunteer in the adults who are being asked to watch over this boy.

Lastly what kind of trip did the school take, and what kinds of trips does this troop take.

Obviously, I'm not looking for answers just putting out some more food for thought.

P.S. My Asperger's (High Function Autism) son is 17, and life.

Elizabeth,

Our issues of Scouting were in the mailbox when we got home last night. Thanks for writing the article and the heads up, we read it last night. Having a son with Aspergers, it was an interesting article. So much of what you talked about is exactly the sort of things we've dealt with over the years. Our son can meet the requirements, he just needs a little help and support now and then to see how to.

Every child with an Autism Spectrum disorder is different, often the parents are the best help in working with the troop to get the best for everyone. That's also exactly what the Boy Scout pubications you listed and the Scoutmaster Handbook also say, about working with scouts with Disabilities.

To that end both my spouse and I are fully trained leaders, so we understand the program, and help where we can. My spouse has been an ASM for years, and we are both Merit Badge Counselors for 5-6 MB's each.

We've never done the work for our son, we've helped him see how to do it for himself. Over the years our son has needed less and less. He's now a life scout, and Troop Guide, working with the younger scouts on skills.

I'm sorry I didn't see this last week. I find it interesting that the troop is in this trouble because they followed the Scoutmaster Handbook.

"working with Scout-aged youth who have special physical, mental, or learning challenges will require patience and understanding on the part of troop leaders and other Scouts. Begin by seeking the guidance of the boy's parents. They know him better than anyone..... If the troop does not have adult leaders experienced in dealing with a particular disability, ... parents should understand that they might be asked to provide additional assistance with their son's Scouting experience." (Scoutmaster Handbook, p. 130) It actually is a bit longer, but I gave you the germ of it.

There is a reason my husband and I are both fully trained. One or the other of us is almost always at any meeting, campout or event our son is at because he has Asperger's (high functioning Autism) and we don't expect someone else to be able to know all his quirks.

Most of the time he doesn't need any help, so we are free to help other scouts, or stand back and chat.

I agree, the Eagle Court of Honor is for the most part in the scouts hands. The only reason I feel this person should have any say in it is if they found an error in the program, not changing the program.

Actually the original story had quite a bit more, giving the troop number and ending with a quote from a Sheriff's Deputy Brock "Thank God for Boy Scouts". The Jennifer Greff article in the Omaha World Herald gave a lot more detail. I can't link to it because it's moved off of their main page, but if someone else can...

Can I keep it?

I've always thought that the only time you couldn't finish a MB under old requirements was when National said it, and they give the time frame. I've only seen once, but I've been told they have done several times.

My son finally finished up Life Saving MB, in the mean time the requirements had changed. It was a good thing he had the old MB book, so the instructor could go by the old requirements. My son wasn't big enough to do the swimmer rescue his first year at camp, and put it off a couple of years because he was too busy with other MB's. Since this counselor was going to be signing off on the whole MB, he talked to my son to know that he had met all the other requirements.

My understanding was that if you start a MB, and the requirements change, then the boy can decide to finish with the old ones, or start over with the new ones.

I've taught/mentored Merit Badges for years. Over the years we've gotten brownies, cookies, thank you notes, and an occassional small gift certificate for a local Pizza place.

Honestly, the notes from the kids mean the most.

I don't do any MB as important as First Aid, although my son does First Aid and Fire Safety. So one day he may have someone he's taught save a life.

Hopefully my Personal Management lessons stand the kids in good stead when they get older, and save them from sinking in debt.

What I found interesting on the BSA website is they say that you get the patch for inviting a boy to join BSA. Then it says ask for the patch when you hand in the new application. I wonder if there is an official application form. Not every boy who is asked to join, joins.

I wonder if this maybe tied into, the new first class requirement?

It's an interesting colorful patch, but I think the traditional one means a lot more.

I believe there was a similiar patch in the 1990's for a short time.

Every time I start a MB for a boy/boys, I double check that the requirements haven't changed. I also have my son double check anytime he starts a new badge.

I always print out a couple of copies of the current requirements, so that we are all on the same page. I think one of the MB I do has changed requirements 3 times in the last 7 years.

Just because the requirements change, doesn't mean that you have to throw away the MB books, I just cross out the requirements and say updated. Usually the information is still mostly current, but that may not be the case with your MB.

I agree with the posters who said fundraising can't be counted toward service hours.

But, this Village "Fair" may provide other real service hours. Helping "setup", "take down" or even "cleaning up trash", might be approved by the SM. It might make it a long day, but if it's a fun event, often time kids don't even know how much time has passed.

Being a CIT can be pretty thankless, and you are doing it for free. I assumed that the father going up on Saturday, was the boys planned day off. When our son was a CIT, he had one day off a week, and since it was only 30 miles we'd pick him up for the day. It was clear from my reading that everything was arranged ahead of time with the right people, and that no one at the camp had any problem with it until the parents showed up, and they had not done what they promised.

Having been to both of our local camps several times this summer, I know that child protection has been increased over the last several years. I've had two sons work on camp staff at both our local camps. For beginning of the season and end of the summer, driving to the staff site is routinely done, either by the parent or a staff vehicle. In between, the kids lugged their stuff back and forth from the parking lot. The staff areas in both camps are fairly close to the parking lot so it isn't a big deal, besides there are wheelbarrows. If they locked the first entrance gate, you are talking a 3 & 5 mile walk, which is a lot with gear. They usually only lock them during the off season, and when there are escaped convicts roaming around (no joke).

Looking at a map of Camp Onteora the staff area seems to be at the far end of the Camp from the Administration area. It was interesting to see that the camp was closed for 5-6 years in the the 1990's, and has major renovation work that they are trying to raise money for. Obviously this camp needs more work.

I also looked at the listing for the staff of the camp. The only one that I felt had the kind of background that I'd be thrilled to see in the camp was the Ranger, Mr. Gabbard, since 1978. The others had around 5-8 years of varied background, which isn't a whole lot. They aren't bragging about how long people have been in the positions they are in, just about other positions they have held. Yes the background is similiar to what many people at all camps have, but usually there is some depth of leadership somewhere, you don't have everyone with about the same time on the job. It would be interesting to know how long they have held their current positions.

I've thought of a few more things. If you are driving the coast of Conneticut a good rest stop, for bathrooms, stretching legs, eating a picnic lunch is the Nautilus in Groton Conn. It's the first nuclear submarine, kids will never complain about tiny tents, and cramping again, also a small museum, with gift shop..... Also I can't say enough about the State of Conneticut rest stops along Route 84, I've never found them dirty... closed for renovations, and portapotties.... but not dirty.

At Gettysburg in the visitor center there is what they call the Electronic map, with a colored lights showing the battle on a topographical map, takes 1/2 hour. Very 1960's, but it really gives a good overview of the battle, and what happened over three days in July. Well worth the app. $3.00, or maybe cheaper with a group discount? The cyclorama painting ISN'T worth the money in my opinion. Better the kids were out walking the battlefield.

What is neat in Gettysburg is that if you are there on a weekend or over the summer, you might run into "Registered Battle Field Guides" these are not Park Service employees. They are private contractors with a history going back to shortly after the battle. They are very knowledgable, and often have a wealth of specialized information. It's ok to eavesdrop... but don't ask questions, unless you are paying them. On a family trip we spent a bit of time on Little Round Top, and listened to 5 different ones, and it was interesting to see the various insights, that questions brought to up.

There are often reinactors (sp.) on weekends and during the summer. Sometimes they are just wondering around almost like ghosts. It's interesting to talk to them. Many of these groups were used as extra's in Ted Turners film, and have interesting stories to tell. They are fine to talk to ... unless they are leading a tour in period dress.

The Eisenhower farm is more interesting to the adults then the kids. Be warned, you can only get there from a bus from the visitors center, so that has to be planned, also there is a cost for this. I gather Eisenhower was a big fan of the Boy Scouts, and would often meet with groups coming to tour the battlefield. But it's a neat patch, that goes with the others. We've gone there once, but done some of the walks for the other patches numerous times.

There are some neat fire tower like viewing platforms, 3-4 stories high. These have open wire treads. One of our sons literally can't see the steps coming down, something about the angle and the way his mind processes it, they just disappear. He learned he had to go down backwards to see the steps, turned out in a group of 30, 2 other scouts followed his lead. I never knew their problems, maybe fear of heights, or depth perception problems. This while the other kids where runing down.

There is also a Youth Hostel in Boston on Hemingway Street, in the Fenway, a couple of blocks from the subway. I know the costs have gone up, but Scout troops pay the "members" rate, if they sign up for the "free" non-profit youth group membership. The advantage for this is they have a kitchen, and bunk beds, so you don't have to pack tents. There are several campgrounds further out, including one in Gloucester on Cape Ann. It's a working sea port.

There is also Philadelphia, Valley Forge and Gettysburg. Gettysburg is a distance from the other two, but there are lots of campgrounds in that area very close to the battlefield. Then again the battlefield is large. There are a set of batches that Boy Scouts can earn. I think it's up to four interlocking segments. Two are walks, one north, one south, The Eisenhower farm, and a newer one that covers a walk in downtown Gettysburg.

Valley Forge has a lot of area, and a few museum type exhibits without being very overwhelming. It's not really a walk between most places, unless your guys are working on hiking MB. Valley Forge wasn't a battlefield, it was a winter camp, so they spread out a bit. Actually the Cradle of Liberty Council BSA office is almost in the park. Philadelphia has lots of stuff to do, but other than the Youth Hostel, I don't know of other places to stay. I can't think of a close Camp Ground.