WHEELER

Just like in the White Stag program, one has what is called the "guided discovery". I polled these scouts to see what message they are getting. It is called "debreifing" in intelligence parlance. That these boys did not have a clue and never heard "be a Man" from anybody within the Scouting organization, prove my points exactly. A First Class Scout and a Star Scout never heard the words "virtue" or "be a Man" from their Scouting organization. And when polled, do you want to be effeminate or Manly? They chose Manly. If this is a youth run organization, why is the BSA encouraging effeminacy against the will of the youth?

 

It is obvious that someone is dropping the ball, the only question is: Is it by incompetence or by design????????

 

Here is an organization that says it will "instill values and moral and ethical choices" yet fails in this very regard. What is moral about keeping boys DUMB of their good? (The Good is the "End".) What is ethical about keeping boys in the dark about virtue? What is moral or ethical about incompetence?

 

How can anybody say they are a man without having ever heard the word "virtue" and to not have ever sought out virtue. Ignorance does not make the man.

 

I like dictionaries. They give nuance to words.

 

To lead: guide, conduct, excort, or direct 2. To Influence; induce 4. to pursue; live. This one I really enjoy 5. To begin or open with, as in games

 

in the verb section of the definition is 4. Command but in 6. means "The principal role in a play." Actors play roles the Greek slang for actors is "Hypocrites" (because they played a false reality).

 

IN THE ROLE TO 'GUIDE' OR 'DIRECT' OR 'INDUCE' CAN BE SAID OF THE DEVIL OR LENIN OR ADOLF HITLER. Leadership does have Command has its definition.

 

To command: 1. to give orders to 2. to have authority (over) 3. To receive as due; exact 4. ability to control.

 

Only something good has "authority". "Evil has NO authority". So, do simpletons have authority or does wise have authority? "The Good" commands obedience. The devil, Lenin, Adolf Hilter, Do they command obedience or are we commanded to disobedience to them? Anything can lead, but only the GOOD can command.

 

The slandering of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle as homosexuals is despicable. Plato recounts in one of his dialogues how Socrates refused the advances of another. Plato condemns homosexuality in the Laws. And Aristotle definately NOT. Socrates is a three time war veteran and to slander him, is unforgiveable. There is no truth nor basis in any of those despicable comments.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

Earlier while rummaging through the links I came upon an article called "Evolution of Scouting". I am not able to get back to the site since the URL has went kaput for some reason.

 

I went to Net Compass, clicked on BSA, then clicked on "Description and History". There was an article called "Evolution of Scouting".

 

I have tried several times to get back to that because I didn't have time when I stumbled across it. I do most certainly want to read it. If somebody else can retrieve that and post it here, I would be greatly obliged.

 

Curious Minds want to know.

Good point Marty. Should I have used the word "oozes" instead.

 

Maybe the correct word is "emphasis". The "umph" has gone out. Maybe we need to start looking at restoring the "umph" of the message of Boy Scouting.

 

If one is not enthusiastic about winning, one might just lose.

If we are not enthusiastic about manhood, then boys will not be enthusiastic either.

 

The older handbook has an enthusiasm that the modern has dropped.

 

OGE axiom is the "Blind lead the Blind".

 

If making stupid hay is a science, the post on "Nature's Lesson" how much more important is the science of masculinity?

 

The second principle of leadership is "Know your Job". You don't have to be a know it all but one does have to know the basics of what one does or stay the heck out or you get somebody killed.

Androgyny is effeminacy. Socialism seeks in its equality, syncretism of the sexes. Socialist modality is androgyny.

 

What the Boy Scouts really do is Androgynize with the syncretism of mixing the genders.

 

I read the post the night before I wrote this post also OldGrey Eagle. You run a venturing post with women in it. You have your agenda and you are protecting your turf. But what you really don't have is "the science of male paedogogy" because that interferes with your socialist ideology.

 

Again, Lord Baden-Powell promoted the League of Nations which is the forerunner of the United Nations. The League of Nations was not successful the first time around so we have a another major world war to force everybody to sign on to the United Nations.

 

If he promoted the League of Nations, he was also influenced with socialistic teaching on other things

 

EVERYTHING IS A SCIENCE OGE. Your feminist ideology and its contradiction of science falls flat on its face.

 

And you have gladly talked of World Citizenship. How can you have duty to Country when you are promoting the United Nations and world Citizenship? You're illogical.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

There is some dispute of the word malakoi as used by St. Paul in I Cor. 6.9. Malakoi means soft or effeminate. Others contend that it means boy prostitutes.

 

The word Malakoi appears in Matthew 11:8 and at Luke 7:25.

 

These are the words of Jesus at verse 8:

 

Why then did you go out? To see a man clothed in SOFT rainment? Behold those who wear SOFT rainment are in kings houses.

 

Did Jesus and the writers of Matthew and Luke mean a man clothed in boy prostitute clothes. Behold those who wear boy prostitute rainment are found in kings houses.

 

Strongs concordance say malakoi means soft or effeminate.

 

Obviously, it is clear that the use of the word malakoi by St. Paul in the letter to the Corinthians is consistent with the use in the two gospels.

 

Malakoi was a common Greek term meaning men who were effeminate.

 

Again, the translator of the Septuagint, 250 years before the gospels uses the word Malakoi.

 

Prov. 26.22 The words of the cunning knaves are soft

 

Soft here in the Greek is MALAKOI. Here again, the word

over 250 years is still in consistent use.

 

The Septuagint uses the word andreyinon man-woman to describe effeminates also. The English word androgyny comes from this Greek.

 

Prov 18.8 Fear casts down the slothful; and the souls of the effeminate(androyinon) shall hunger.

 

Prov 19.15 Cowardice possesses the effeminate (androyinon) man.

 

To be Soft is to be Effeminate. Androgyny is effeminacy. Socialism seeks in its equality, syncretism of the sexes. Socialist modality is androgyny.

 

What the Boy Scouts really do is Androgynize with the syncretism of mixing the genders.

 

Duty to Country means fidelity to the Constitution of the United States. It is the premier law of the land.

 

Duty to Country means that the Constitution is read and understood.

 

Duty to Country is to understand that we live in a Republic and not a Democracy. Loyalty and Fidelity are virtues. Loyalty and fidelity to the original intent of the Founding Fathers.

 

It is important that boys understand the difference between a Republic and a Democracy.

 

There is a post at "Issues and Politics" on "What is a Republic".

 

This is the first and primary duty.

Another thing I forgot to add is that just like the modality of truth, in order to have the truth, one must be have "a want for it" "a zeal for it", manhood is the same way. If you don't want to be a man, you will never get it. You gotta want it, in order to get it. One must want to have it in order to reach it.

 

Winning is the same thing for football teams. you gotta want to win, in order to WIN the game. If boys are never chided to it, they will never get it.

 

To Adrian

To busy right now to answer the question, I don't know the answer to that either.

 

To Dan

 

Here you are a Scoutmaster, and you have publicly stated that in so many words, that you are not going to tell boys "Quit yourself like a Man". Is this the truth?

 

Leadership is not about teaching. Leaders do teach but teaching is not the essence of leadership. The essence of leadership is to command. This means that you don't have a clue on what leadership is.

 

How does one know the positive if one doesn't know the negative? One can not lead unless one first learns to obey!!!!!

 

President George Washington, Father of our Country, is an explempary example of leadership. How did get there? On page 34 of the l948 Handbook for Boys, it relates that his mother said, "I TAUGHT HIM TO OBEY." One cannot command unless he first knows how to obey.

 

The Spartans had a Republican Government. All Spartiates had to participate in politics. So each one was trained to be a general and a leader. But the first thing they did as boys in their training was first to learn how to obey. One cannot command unless he first knows how to obey.

 

Plato again has this principle in his last dialogue the Laws.

 

One can see this modality clearly in Xenophon's Anabasis when the leaders of the Greeks were treacherously murdered at a parley. Xenophon said, "10,000" generals were created. Every Greek learned to obey so that when he became older, he was able to lead.

 

So Dan, you don't have a clue what leadership is.

 

Jesus first learned to obey, before he could sit at the right hand of the Father. Christians are to become "priests and Kings" (Book of Revelation) but only after they first learn to OBEY.

 

Obedience comes before Leadership!

 

Are civilians automatic and inbred as soldiers?  Does soldiering come natural?  If it is natural why the necessity of boot camps?

 

At military boot camps, do civilians step on the parade deck and train themselves to be soldiers?  Do civilians train other civilians to be soldiers? 

 

In order for a civilian to be turned into a sailor or a soldier requires training.  But again, turning back to Aristotles four causes, in order to reach the TELOS one needs an efficient cause.  The efficient cause in military boot camps are the Drill Instructors. (Drill Sergeants for the Army.)

 

The material cause cannot be its own efficient cause.  The patient needs a doctor.  The criminal needs a lawyer.  The civilian needs an efficient cause to attain the telos which is being a soldier.  Drill instructors are the efficient cause.  Drill instructors instill, inspire, lead, discipline, teach, guide, civilians into soldiers.  All change requires an efficient cause.

 

In the story of Achilles, his father Peleus assigns his vassal to train Achilles into manhood.  Achilles is the material cause and his vassal is the efficient cause.

 

Education, as conceived in Greek culture, is much like what a stone mason or a potter does.  They mould stone and clay into a particular forms.  What does a Drill Instructor do?  He MOULDS civilians into soldiers.  What did Peleuss vassal do?  He MOULDED Achilles into a leader and a warrior.

 

Being a man is not natural.  I know plenty of 30 year old boys, 40 year old boys, and 50 year old boys.  They never grow up.  What boy naturally comes to the knowledge of virtue?  None.  What boy has full knowledge?  None.  What boy has wisdom? None.  What boy, then, is a Man?  If he is a boy, he certainly isnt a man otherwise there wouldnt be anything called a boy.  What boy has GOOD judgement of what is right or wrong?  What boy can direct his own path to manhood?

 

For the passage from boyhood to manhood, requires an efficient cause.  There are some who say there shouldnt be any Man leaders in the Boy Scouts it should be all youth ran.  A boy cannot be his own efficient cause. 

 

For wisdom, it is necessary to be able to take counsel, to JUDGE the goods and evils and all the things in life that are desirable and to be avoided, to use all the available goods finely,to observe due occasionsto have expert knowledge of all things that are useful.  Memory and experience and acuteness are each of them either a consequence or a concomitant of wisdom  (1)

 

What boy has wisdom?  What boy has experience?  A boy cannot be his own efficient cause.  The Scoutmaster and other Men leaders are necessary for this to happen.

 

The Scoutmaster there is to point the way.  He is to have the Golden Mean between the extremes.  As Lord Baden-Powell said, he is not the Commanding Officer nor is he non-existent.  No boy knows what direction he needs to go in.  The boys do not see everything.  The Scoutmaster is to make sure that the boys accomplish activities and learn several things necessary for manhood.   What boy knows the steps to take?  None.

 

For instance, the virtues require constant habit forming excercises.  Obedience is a virtue.  With no obedience, there is no manhood.  Boys are naturally rebellious.  How can something that is naturally rebellious be naturally obedient?

 

The Scoutmaster is the efficient cause.  Men leaders are necessary for the Boy Scouts in the planning of activities and the guidance from boyhood to manhood.

 

APPENDIX

Socialist Paedogogy

 

Socialist paedogogy is what Ayn Rand pointed out in her essay on Comprachicos.  It is this system where children are given equal standing to the teacher and that opinions are glorified.  That children can teach themselves and that teachers are only there to guide them along.  Yes, Johhny.  Johnny: I invented the square circle.  Oh, that is very good Johnny.

 

 

We can now know with some trepidation that Lord Baden-Powell had somewhere been influenced by socialism.  He was a promoter of the League of Nations.  He was an Idealist as opposed to being a realist.  Realists being Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, Cicero, the Founding Fathers of America.  As the book Elements of Socialism describes Every Socialist is of necessity an idealist. (pg 201)

 

If he was a promoter of the League of Nations, was he also compromised in his paedogogy?

 

This is an area for further consideration and study because Socialist paedogogy is antithetical to Male paedogogy.

 

Socialist paedogogy is one of Unisexism and Socialist sociology is one of syncretism.  Socialist paedogogy is about fulfilling their philosophy and sociology.  Socialist paedogogy is about fulfilling their needs of their telos of one word government.

 

On the other hand Male paedogogy serves the cause of liberty and of God.

 

 

 

 

 

(1) On Virtues and Vices, Aristotle, Loeb Classical Library, Vol 285, pg 493.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How about the Scoutmasters hold a poll in their troop. First, Ask them what the purpose of Boy Scouting is? What answers do you get? Ask them Do you want to be effeminate or manly? Do you want to become a androgynous or a Man?

 

The other night a Boy Scout in Battle Creek sat next to me at the desk. He saw I was on Scouter.com and he said Are you a Scout? I said "Used to be".

 

I asked him, Did anybody say to you "To be a Man"? He said no. I asked him what is the purpose of Scouting and he said to have fun. He was amazed that the purpose of Scouting was to be trained as a Man.

 

Another Scout showed up. He was a Star Scout. I asked him, Do you want to be effeminate or manly? After some hestitation he said, "Manly". I said good. Neither boy heard "Quit yourself as a Man" or "be a Man" ever in the Scout career.

 

Neither did I.

 

Maybe its time to do our jobs right. The boys depend upon it.

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  (1)

 

Scouting promises you experience and duties that will help you mature into a strong, wise adult. (2) 

 

What is missing or confusing in each of these statements?

 

There really isnt any ideal or Telos presented in the BSA mission statement.

 

If the Boy Scouts of America is a Movement, what the mission statement should be presenting is the end product (or in Greek, the telos) or the Ideal.  The Ideal is what the Movement aims for.

 

Every living thing tends towards its telos.  All change includes the four causes that Aristotle elucidated.  They are the formal cause, the material cause, the efficient cause and the Telos, or Final cause.

 

Before the Hoover Dam was even built, the Concept was visualized.  Before the Golden Gate Bridge or the Empire Building was even built, the Concept was visualized.  Yet the mission statement fails in this regard.  In the modern BSA handbook, it says you mature into an adult.

 

Adult What?  An Adult plant?  An Adult dog?  An Adult female?  Not only is Adult gender neutral but is also SPECIES neutral.

 

This is comparable to standing in front of a Troop and saying, We are going camping in the State of California this weekend.  But where in California?  I dont know.  Just California.  This is what Adult connotates.

 

Does one hand out amorphous directions to the drivers of the Scout Troop?  This is exactly what the official BSA mission and vision statements are.

 

 

The official Boy Scout organization, cant decipher out the formal and material causes right.  Boys do not develop into young people.  They develop into men.  Young connotes immaturity or newly arrived.  Boys are young.  People is gender neutral and inclusive.  How can boy being gender specific and exclusive be turned into young people which is gender neutral and inclusive.  What we are really doing is androgynizing boys.  That is what the mission of the Boy Scouts is really proclaiming. In essence it is Unisexism.

 

Again, the fallacy here can be clearly drawn with what a ship does.  When a ship leaves the harbor, doesnt it KNOW where its destination is?  Or does it wander aimlessly over the seas and stumble into something?  When one makes a trip from San Francisco to New York, one KNOWS beforehand ones DESTINATION.  How does one KNOW that he has started on the trip?  When one is no longer in San Francisco.  One stays on course to get to his destination. One KNOWS he is leaving when he sees San Francisco behind him and not in front of him.  This one has never been to New York, but he has a concept of it.  His concept guides him to his destination!!!!

 

Every boy is a ship.  But what is happening is that NO ONE  is telling the boys their destination.  What is going on is that many a boy are wandering around aimlessly.

 

Every boy must have the Ideal and the Telos presented to him

 

The essence of education is to make each individual in the image of the community.  (3) 

 

The greatest work of art they had to create was Man.  They (the ancient Greeks) were the first to recognize that education means deliberately moulding human character in accordance with an ideal. (4) 

 

The intellectual principle of the Greeks is not individualism but humanism, to use the word in its original and classical sense.  It meant the process of educating man into his true form, the real and genuine human nature.  (5)

 

Aristocracy, in all ages and all nations, is marked by discipline, the deliberate formation of human character through wise direction and constant advice.  It is the only class which can claim to produce the complete Man.  (6)

 

This whole idea is of the greatest importance in the history of Greek education.  It shows us the regular pattern, the under-lying ideal of the old aristocratic training.  When Achilles has no experience either of warfare or of the art of oratory, his father Peleus sends his most trusty vassal to be his companion on the battlefield and at court, and to mould him after the traditional pattern of manliness.  (7)

 

But the later Greeks also held to the paradeigma, the example for imitation, as a fundamental category in life and thought.  Platos whole philosophy is built on the conception of pattern, and that he describes the Ideas as patterns established in the realm of Being. (8) 

 

The Greek trinity of poet, statesman, and sage embodied the nations highest ideal of leadership.  (9)  John Wayne said in his movie, Before one becomes a gentleman, one must be a Man. Before one can be a citizen, statesman, poet, or sage, one must be a MAN first.  If a boy doesnt become a man, how can he be a good citizen or soldier? 

 

Boys live on ideology.  This is the reason that Plutarch wrote his Lives on famous Greeks and Romans.  Polybius comments that on anniversaries and holidays, Roman men would present skits of famous and great Roman men to the boys of their society in order that the boys have a concept of what they needed to be.  They gave them the IDEAL.

 

Yet what image are we presenting to the boys? the androgynous image of the socialistic community of the modern handbook?  Or that which is presented in the l948 handbook, you are in company with men like Rogers Rangers, Lewis and Clark, Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, (10) the community of real men?  The community of Heroes, Knights, Boer Commandos, Warriors, and Soldiers.

 

Boys must hear Quit yourself like a Man.  The Ideal is presented to them to grasp.  If this is never presented and urged upon them, boys will never become what they do not hear.

 

Boys are not static.  Boys do not remain boys.  They turn into MEN.  Boy is the transitional stage between infant and the telos.  What is the telos of the male child?

 

It seems that the Boy Scouts do not have a clue to what this is.  Several scoutmasters denied the fact that training boys to be men is a part of the BSA.  The BSAs own mission and vision statements completely ignore the TELOS of boys.

 

If the Boy Scouts are nothing but a series of planned events which is scheduled around fun and adventure,  then it is nothing more than a PROGRAM.  Fun and Adventure are the telos of the modern BSA.

 

But is this the idea of Lord Baden-Powell?  Is this what boys are to do have fun and adventure.

 

What is the Boy Scouts?

The Boy Scout Movement is a paedogogical institution.  But what kind of paedogogy?    

"...A young British army officer, Robert Baden-Powell, was stationed in the wild South African country to train new soldiers from England in the skills of tracking, trailing, and wilderness living.

"HE FOUND THAT HIS MEN WERE SO USED TO CITY LIVING THAT THEY COULD NOT STAND THE VIGOROUS LIFE OF THE OUTDOORS."  (11) 

These recruits where (1) ignorant of the out-of-doors and (2) soft, in other words effeminate.

The concept of the Boy Scouts came from this observation.

The Movement at its fundamentals was to "RIGORIZE" boys so that they could live out of doors; to make boys hardy and rugged.  The page from the 1911 Boy Scout handbook is a picture of hardiness and ruggedness.  Iron sharpens Iron.

The Movement at its fundamentals was to EDUCATE boys to the skills necessary for scouting, and outdoorsmanship.

This is the core of the Boy Scout Movement.  It is TO MOVE boys from ignorance of the out-of-doors to knowledge of the same and from effeminacy to hardiness.

"The Boy Scouts were founded by Baden-Powell because recruits for the British army were too often found to be physically unfit-unfit, that is, for military service. The British Scouts encouraged physical fitness by teaching boys to be observers and trackersInstead, the regimen of the Scouts is designed to teach boys how to endure moderate discomfort, cooperate with others and ultimately save others."  (12) "Michael Rosenthal claims: "For Scouting was from the very beginning conceived as a remedy to Britian's moral, physical, and military weakness--conditions that the Boer war seemed to announce-especially to Tory politicians, social imperialists, and military leaders-were threatening the Empire (13)

The Boy Scouts are about curing effeminacy among men and masculinizing men.

 

The other thing Lord Baden-Powell noticed that many of the cultures he observed had some kind of puberty rite for their males.  Boys have to be trained to be Men.

 

The Boy Scout Movement is a MALE paedogogical institution.

Fun and adventure is not the telos it is an efficient cause but is not the final cause.  Three books attest to this precept.  The l948 Handbook for Boys, the l948 Field Manual and the 1962 Scoutmasters Handbook. (14)

 

As is clear in the current mission and vision statements of the BSA, it doesnt have a clue on what male paedogogy is, what it entails, what the telos is, what the efficient cause is or anything.  It is actually harming boys in its androgynous stand and words.  It has actually adopted the language of Unisexism.  It has the culture of hate towards men because it doesnt want to say that word.

 

The First principle of MALE PAEDOGOGY is the expression of the IDEAL; in other words, the TELOS.  It cant do that and hasnt done that for quite awhile.

 

Lord Baden-Powell said Scouting is a game with a purpose.  Yet sadly, the BSA has forgotten what this Purpose is!

 

The original mission of the Boy Scouts was the transformation of boys from ignorance to knowledge, from effeminacy to hardiness and from boyhood, to Manhood; in essence the training of boys to be REAL MEN.

 

The Boy Scout objectives of training boys to being men of action were:

 

Implantating of the nature of man as exemplified in the Scout Oath.

Inculcating of every V-I-Rtue with the Scout Law as the foundation.

Hardening and vigorizing in Natures environments.

Educating in Scoutcraft, Woodcraft, Survival skills, Common Sense, Outdoorsmanship, Citizenship, and in various other Sciences.

So that we can be of service to GOD AND COUNTRY

 

If the Boy Scouts is just nothing but fun and adventure, then, it is a program; i.e. a series of events or activities with no purpose in mind.

 

But if the Boy Scouts is A course or series of actions and endeavours on the part of a body of persons, moving or tending more or less continuously towards some special end.

Then the Boy Scouts is about "moving" from one position to another position. Boys do not remain Boys; they change into something. Boys change into men. The Boy Scouts is a movement that has  "some special end".  That special end is being a Man.

This is the telos of Male Paedogogy.

 

(1) Official Boy Scout website.

(2) Boy Scout Handbook, 1998. pg 1

 

(3) Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, trans. By Gilbert Highet, Oxford University Press, New York, l945. Vol I, pg xxiv

 

(4) Ibid, pg xxii

 

(5) Ibid, pg xxiii

 

(6) Ibid, pg 21

 

(7) Ibid, pg 27

 

(8) Ibid, pg 34.

 

(9) Ibid, pg xxvi

 

(10) Handbook for Boys, l948. pg 1-2 

(11) Ibid, pg6.

(12) The Church Impotent, The Feminization of Christianity, by Leon Podles, (who is an Assistant Scoutmaster), Pg 177.

(13) Ibid, footnote on page 250. as from The Character Factory: Baden-Powell and the Origins of the Boy Scout Movement [London:Collins, l986], 3

(14)From the 1962 Scoutmaster's Handbook, "See to it that each boy . . . has the chance to develop himself into a MAN (emphasis original)"  1948 Field Manual pg 469   He is on his way to becoming a man of action.

 

Becoming a Man

Baden-Powell tells of the test that was given the Zulu boy of Africa before he was considered a man:

 

1948 Handbook for boys.   Pg 43, Those are the Ideals of Scouting.  Those are the qualities that make great and successful men.  Pg 62 wants to see them grow up to be real men.

 

 

APPENDIX

 

The Current mission statement of the Boy Scouts

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  The current BSA Vision statement is: The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law; Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership; Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program

 

 

 

 

They are being taught, by implication, that there is no such thing as a firm, objective reality, which mans mind must learn to perceive correctly; that reality, is an indeterminate flux and can be anything the pack wants it to be; that truth and falsehood is determined by majority vote. And more: that knowledge is unnecessary and irrelevant, since the teachers views have no greater validity than the oratory of the dullest and most ignorant studentand, therefore, that reason, thinking, intelligence and education are of no importance or value. To the extent that a student absorbs these notions, what incentive would he have to continue his education and develop his mind? THE ANSWER MAY BE SEEN TODAY ON ANY COLLEGE CAMPUS. (Caps are mine. pg 211)

 

 

 

Following this method, the teacher abstains from lecturing and merely presides at a free-for-all or bull session, while the students express their views on the subject under study, which they do not know and have come to school to learn. What these sessions produce in the minds of the students is an unbearable boredom. (pg 211)

 

Ayn Rand here is pointing out the situation now current in all schools and universities. And where do these ideas of listening to children come from? These teachers are influenced by John Dewey in their paideia. The "we as adults" need to start listening to children dictate what happens and what goes is pure poppycock.

 

First Pusk, I was involved in the White Stag program in the Monterey Bay Area Council. It was a leadership program. I have also been in the Military which you haven't.

 

You promote feminism which is marxist sociology, Why wouldn't you be promoting socialist pedogogy also? Which you are. You don't promote the Boy Scouts as a place where a boy learns to be a man so how do you know anything on male pedogogy? Nothing at all. If you knew male pedogogy you wouldn't be promoting females in the Boy Scouts.

 

 

In the Oxford English Dictionary, the definition of Program:

 1. A public notice.

2a. A descriptive notice, issued beforehand, of any formal series of proceedings, as a festive celebration, a course of study, etc,; a prospectus; in current use esp. a written or printed list of the 'pieces', items, or 'numbers' of a concert or other public entertainment...

b. A definite plan or scheme of any intended proceedings; an outline or abstract of something to be done (whether in writing or not). Also, a planned series of activities.

h. Psychol. and Educ.  In human and animal learning, a series of step-by-step questions or tests (freq. designed to be used in a teaching machine operated by the learner.) aimed at the establishment of learning patterns through the stimulus of rewarding correct responses or behavior at each step.

The rest dealth with computers or music.

The Boy Scouts is definitly a "movement" and not a "program".

Second to Mr. Hunt's premise that anything but democracy is resistant to change is horse puckie.  The military changes all the time in tactics, gear, strategies and so forth and it is not a democracy.  "Resistance to change" is code for progressivism.

 

 

One needs to read "What is a Republic" to understand the way I used it. "demos" is short from democracy meaning "the People". All human institutions are of the tripartite paradigm!!!

 

"What is a Republic" is necessary for understanding leadership paradigms of all human insititutions.

My mom called me a "Male Chauvinist Pig" all the time. I was quite proud of the title. I was also completely obedient to my Mom. She ran the whole house and had my Dad under her thumb. She was an ardent feminist. I grew up in an ardent Democratic house. My Dad did her bidding at all times because if not divorce was there. So in order to "keep it together" my dad compromised.

 

At 16, my mom decided to send me to get a perm. I protested. I still went under great protest, I ended up as the laughing stock of the school yard.

 

I also see this in my friend's son here in town. His wife is an ardent feminist.Had him color his hair also. Women turn men into their dolls. This boy is now destroyed. In order to buy his friendship, she has bought him every video game and toy. Does he know what it means to be a man?

 

The son of the Greek Orthodox priest here is a wimp. He is a terrible sight to look at. The mother is strong-willed and mothering. The son is destroyed as a man.

 

Sit and observe in any church pew, the effeminate look and character of young men.

 

All primitive cultures with their knack of acuteness and observation techniques as hunters saw this in their own sons. That is why the prevalence of puberty rituals across the globe. Women are dangerous to men.

 

Femine modality is not masculine modality. Feminine seek for safety and security. Masculine modality is be left alone. To be free. The Love of ritual and the love of roaming is natural in a man. Not a woman. Look at British culture with all the ritual and traditions, the changing of the guard, and all that, That was a sign of a very masculine culture. Now, it is not so masculine anymore.

 

1860 EMERSON Cond. Life (1861) 121, Ifind the religions of menunmanly and effeminating.

 

That is why Leon Podles titles his book, "The Church Impotent, The feminization of Christianity" whereas we are witnessing the "feminization" of the Boy Scouts.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

The following quotes are from Hunt from the thread, "On Effeminacy". 

The first post in this thread shows how a little bit of education, linked to a willingness to believe in conspiracies, can lead a person astray. In fact, there is a scholarly dispute (with political overtones) over what the word "malakoi" means in 1 Cor. 6:9. [Tune out now if you don't care.] But the dispute isn't over whether it means "effeminate." Pretty much everybody knowledgeable about Greek recognizes now that this was a bad translation. There are three main lines of thought: first, that it means "soft" as in morally weak (the most literal meaning), second, that it is paired with another word to condemn all homosexual activity, and third, that it is intended to condemn specific sexual activity (a type of prostitution). I don't find any of the arguments overwhelmingly persuasive, because there aren't enough contemporary sources to be sure. But to build some arcane theory on this about how a plot to promote "effeminacy" is undermining society (and the Boy Scouts) is just silly.

I don't want to waste more time on the substance of this, but I'll make a point. If you want to find out what a Greek word in the Bible means, you don't just look in Cruden's Concordance and go on a random quote hunt among the Church Fathers. You actually have to do some research on what current scholars think about it. That's what I did (all on the Internet, by the way)--and it helps to know some Greek. Maybe another way of putting this is that access to information is not the same as understanding it or being able to put it into context. A real education, provided by good teachers, is necessary for that. Hunt

 

 First, he tells me that there is some scholary dispute about the meaning.  The Church Fathers I quoted didn't have a problem understanding it.  Then that it pertains to some kind of "sexual activity".   And that I have no contemporary sources.

Furthermore, he tells me that I need to find out on what "modern scholars" think.  What "to get their political correctness" definition?

 

I pull up 74 references for the word "effeminate" and then he accuses me of spending too much time in the library.  He can't make up his mind.  I give him 500 years of references and the English had no problem.  Gibbon and Bacon don't look confused on the meaning of the word.  "Effeminate" is not about any sexual activity it is from the Latin meaning "out-of-woman".

To Mr. Evmori, the reason you tell me to blow it out my ear is because you don't what anything to undermine your socialistic influence in the BSA.  Aren't we about knowledge and truth?  I would think every boy and man would want a clear definition of the term "effeminate".  What's ur problem Evmore?  Afraid, someone might stop being effeminate?  Realize that the BSA movement is effeminizing boys, acclimating them to the leadership of women?  Huh?

It is a sad day in the BSA.

The Scoutmaster has to be involved. The Scoutmaster leds the Senior Patrol Leader, the Patrol leaders and the Leadership Corps. These in turn, SPL, PL, LC, led the boys. Everything in Heirarchical fashion. Just like in a Republic and the Military.

 

Only the Scoutmaster can lead because he is "THE MAN". He sets the example and shows the scouts the ideal of manliness and manhood. He corrects and guides and teaches wisdom. All leadership is by example and Scoutmasters are the leadership par excellence. They have the fullness of knowledge and experience. They KNOW what needs to be done to accomplish the goal. The boy leaders are to help the Scoutmaster accomplish tasks and goals. Boys learn by example and the non-coms learn more leadership from the scoutmaster.

 

Let's not forget the principle, "YOU ARE WHAT YOU FOLLOW". If boys did all the leading, then the boys remain boys. But if the Scoutmaster was there, then the boys become men. You are what you follow!!!!!

 

Scoutmasters burn the trail. Boys follow and become their Scoutmaster. IT IS SIMPLE LOGIC!!!!(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

The Boy Scout Troop is a Republic. Boys learn by leading as Patrol leaders. The Old Scout handbook said "BOY AND MAN LEADERS". Both are needed. I was responding to the slant of the previous thread where boys are to assume ALL leadership. The Scoutmaster is the guide, a Leader, the Monarchy. The Boy Leaders are the aristocracy; the non-commissioned officers of the Troop. They are learning to lead. The others are the demos, learning the ropes. It is all a paideia.

 

It is a harmony of all for all. To make it ALL youth led leds to disproportion. Disproportion is what is evil. Youth do not have the fullness of knowledge or experience that it takes for the knowledge of the GOOD. Non-commissioned officers do not run the military. The Boy Scout movement is based on the structure of the military and on another basis. Employees do not run the store.

OHHHHH FOG You hit the nail on the head. Thank you Thank you thank you!!!!!!!

 

I realized something else. It is a movement. It is to take city boys move them to be OUTDOORSMEN AND FRONTEIRSMEN AND SCOUTS.

 

IT IS A MOVEMENT. From ignorance to knowledge, From effeminacy, to hardiness, from boyhood to manhood.

 

 

IT IS A MOVEMENT. OORAH!!!!

You have hit on something FOG. Yes it is a movement and not a program. I will stop calling it a program from now on. Yes it is a movement.

 Definition of movement: The action or process of moving; change of position; passage from place to place or from situation to another. This is the very first definition from the Oxford Dictionary.

There is sixth definition defined thus: A course or series of actions and endeavours on the part of a body of persons, moving or tending more or less continuously towards some special end. Often with defining word prefixed, as in the OXFORD movement.

This sixth definition is the key. Of course the Boy Scouts is a movement. The Boy Scouts is about "moving" from one position to another position. It is perfect. Boys do not remain Boys; they change into something. Boys change into men. So it is the Boy Scout movement.

Because as originally envisioned as a process of moving boys to manhood.   Manhood as being "some special end".

If it is as alot opine as a place for fun and games then the Boy Scouts are a program as mentioned in the mission and vision statements and in the modern Handbook. But if the original intent was to MOVE boys to MANHOOD, THEN IT IS A MOVEMENT.

Right on FOG!!!!!!!!!   There is a major distinction between "program" and "movement".

This rant by "catbird" and others that somehow not allowing women in the BSA leads to "hate" is just riduculous. Lord Baden-Powell did not notice this in any of the cultures he visited. Every primitive culture and the Bar Mitzvah were all tuned to the development of men. Even Roman society had a program whereupon the puberty age, the young man was given different clothes to wear.

 

But catbird does hit on the essential point, that the current modality of the Boy Scout program is to acclimate boys to be led by women. This is a dangerous precept. This is socialisty ideology at its finest. No woman is my equal and will not be a leader over me. I refuse to part of anything that puts me under a woman. It is just demeaning and that is exactly the purpose of it. Leadership is Male. Nature teaches this.

I was copying the previous man's post and did not add "contempt for" in front of altruistic.

 

To Mr. Hunt:

 

There are now Classical references, Biblical references, Church Fathers references, documented 500 years of use in the English language, and two references from the l967 Catholic Encyclopaedia, and WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT MODERN SCHOLARS THINK?

 

This all tells me that the MEANING of the word "effeminate" is very clear. It just also might mean that those "modern scholars" don't know anything after all.

Yes, I saw that picture too. There is no such thing as "World Citizenship" because the world is not a single state. The BSA has mixed two incompatible predicates in a subject. One subject is the training of boys to be men and the other subject is the leftist, unisexism of the United Nations. This is an oxymoron.

 

But to get back on thread. The l948 manual GUSHES with enthusiasm for men, for manhood. One can not say the same for the modern handbook. It is almost afraid to say the word "man". As I have said, It looks like the BSA program has accepted the language of hate toward men and boys in its literature. The proof is in the pudding.

 

 

This is provided as a reference for boys and men for the context of the word effeminate. Lord Baden-Powell and the people of his time were VERY familiar with this word. They were formed with this word constantly in their literature!!!!! This word had meaning and had a powerful influence in Victorian culture!

 

Take for instance the reference to Gibbon in the definition. He wrote the massive Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire that was one of the influences the American Founding Fathers.

 

Boys can see the context of the word and see the wide and deep influence it had in England.

 

This context is neccessary for "Knowledge" of Manhood and Virility. How can one know what manhood or virility without knowing its opposite? In the philosophy of paideia (education), to not know the opposite is to not know the positive. And this really questions, the leadership of the BSA if this modality is not presented!

 

If this word was important for the times of Lord Baden-Powell, maybe we should be able to see this word used several times now in forthcoming Boy Scout handbooks and Field Manuals. In the paideia of manhood, how can one NOT know the opposite?

 

How can one not see America in the following excerpt?

 

1612 BACON Greatness Kingd., Ess. 239 In a slothfull peace both courages will effeminate, and manners corrupt.

 

 

(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

The youth are involved in the BSA. They are the patrol leaders and the SPL's. They are there leading---in an aristocratic mould. They earn the right of advancement through merit. They get involved in doing "leadership" duties.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but originally there was no SPL. That is what the American side added. In the B-P original law, the scout is to have complete obedience to the Scoutmaster.

 

It needs to be adult lead. Boys are boys. This idea that children need to lead and to have some say is purely the drivel of John Dewey and his marxist philosophy of education. Look at the public school systems. Ayn Rand points to this philosophy of children are just as competent as adults. They are not. They have no experience of real life and no knowledge. Not the candidates of true leadership. Wisdom comes from experience, no boy has that.

 

I think FOG just is baiting with this thread. The Boy Scouts are based on a system that Victorian England was well acquainted with and the modern American people and culture are totally ignorant of.

 

If you don't understand Victorian culture and WHERE IT CAME FROM, there is no understanding of the Boy Scouts.