WHEELER

You cannot parley peace with the Devil with half a loave.

I'm attacked because I do not participate yet in the BSA movement has forgotten the "purpose" of Scouting.

The purpose they say is "fun and adventure". That is the current BSA philosophy. Philosophy is a DOS program. Everything now, geared to that Telos of "Fun and adventure". We have forgotten the true purpose of Scouting "The training of Boys to be REAL Men". If that was the philosophy of the Boy Scouts, then things would be geared differently to that Telos.

In the Old School, I believe I learned this in the White Stage program, One has a mission statement and then lists the objectives for accomplishing the mission. Where does a vision statement fit in? This contemporary vision statement is not consistent with the history and origninal intent of the Boy Scouts. Where are the objectives of th Boy Scouts?

Where are the OFFICIAL OBJECTIVES OF THE BSA? Is it the vision statement?

This is response to NJCubScouter and to Proud Eagle.  NJCubScouter doesnt understand the seemingly dual purpose that I am exhibiting.  He thinks I am hypocritical.  On the outside, this seems right.  But if one is trained to see essences and understands reality, then.

(This is truly what philosophy is all about; the discovery of divine and human things and their causes.)

How Does Death come?  Pause and Think. Answer this to yourself before you move on.  Find the answer yourself first.

What is one reason we have hands?  One reason is that we have the possibility for defending ourselves. 

Why do we NEED to defend?  Because that is one direction that death cometh. From animals or from other humans. One direction implies that there is another direction; Is there?  Is there another direction?  Yes.

The abiltity to abstract and to quantify and to seek essences; this is philosophy.

What are white blood cells and their function?  To defeat death from within.  White Blood cells and T-cells are to defeat harmful bacteria and viruses.

There are two directions that the human body faces defeat (death).  One from the outside and one from the inside.

Lets take again, the Socratic principle of macrocosm/microcosm.  What goes in the little so goes the whole.  The paradigm does not change.  The pattern is the same.  (In the post, What is a Republic is another example of this Socratic Principle of philosophy.)

Lets look at the higher macrocosm-the body politic.  What is the military?  For defending against outside forces that seek the death of a particular body politic.  What is the Police? For defending against inside forces that seek destruction. 

In the oath given to military soldiers in America, there is a phrase, to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Death for anything comes from two directions.  This is the same for any organization.  Take Christianity.  At its very inception faced death from without and within.  As in evidenced in the Book of Acts, St. Paul in behest of Jewish authorities sought the death of the Christian movement.  Roman authorities sought the death of the Christian movement.  Not only did the Christians face death from the outside but also from within, the circumcision party, the Gnostics, the Nicolations, and others.  St. Paul struggled against all these forces.  Heresies are like viruses to the Christian Faith.

The body politic and any human organization is just like the human body.  They are living organisms.  This modality is the same for the right and the left.

Communist and Fascist governments had armies to defend themselves against outside forces AND secret police to root out dissidence from within.

Good and Evil face death from within and without.  Death comes from two directions and must be faced.  There is no escaping reality.

The Boy Scouts is no different.  It is a living organism and cannot escape this paradigm.  The Boy Scouts are facing Romans on the outside and Romans from the inside.  Death from within and Death from without.

Oh-my, my furious philofeminists. Truth only exists in its purity.

Can't parley peace with the Devil with half a loave.

Jesus had his Judas, Leonidas had his Ephialtes, the Boy Scouts have its OGE.

Sounds like the Romans have surrounded the city. They will starve you into submission, into making more concessions. Or you will cease to exist.

Tolerance and diversity are only hurled at conservatives to make them compromise and give up. They have no compunction in not obeying their own political correctness.

You will be assimilated. Resistence is futile. You will comply.

It is interesting to see that "Business" modality creep into philosophy. Philosophy is about wisdom and it is a science. "To capture a market" this is business sense but does not make philosophical sense. Philosophy is about principles and not "market share". Neither Socrates nor Aristotle had any room for business people because they would sell their own soul for profit.

Manly culture is a culture of principles. Principles are things not compromised by anybody.

Socrates: And so they grow richer and richer, and the mre they think of making a fortune the less they think of virtue; for when riches and virtue are placed together in the scales of the balance, the one always rises as the other falls.

Reply: True.

Socrates: And in proportion as riches and rich men are honoured in the State, virtue and the virtuous are dishonored.

Reply: Clearly.

Socrates: And what is honoured is cultivated, and that which has no honour is neglected.

Can it be supposed that the Boy Scouts have sold out their boys for filthy lucre?

Here they tout moral and ethical values and principles of leadership. Leadership requires COURAGE. And there is no courage in the face of feminism.

Yes, OGE, Roman Law, The Old Testament (Judiasm) and New (Christianity) had also very big and important influences. I was pointing out emphatically the influence of Socrates which is not well known. The Common saying is the Judeo-Christian Culture. It should read the Roman, Judeo, Hellenic Christian culture. When we say Western Culture the most basic element is of Hellenism, then Roman law and then Christianity. Even Christianity is enmeshed with Plato's and Socrates' teachings. The whole New Testament was written in Greek and for the frist 400 years the Roman church spoke Greek at Rome!

But to get back on thread.

The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training.

In the future Scouting will continue to Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law; Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership; Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program

This is the vision statement of the BSA. Notice how Scoutcraft, Wood craft and camping and hiking do not appear in the "Future of Scouting". It says "offer". God never appears. And it says values-based program. not movement. I thought Scouting was based in virtues????

 Scoutcraft is a dangerous habit to continue. I trace my ability of acuteness to the Scouting movement. I was trained by habit to notice things. We do not want future boys to have this habit. It is dangerous for the progressive, contemporary society.

Definition of movement: The action or process of moving; change of position; passage from place to place or from situation to another. This is the very first definition from the Oxford Dictionary.

There is sixth definition defined thus: "A course or series of actions and endeavours on the part of a body of persons, moving or tending more or less continuously towards some special end. Often with defining word prefixed, as in the OXFORD movement (exaclty as it is written in the dictionary."

The Oxford movement was started in 1833 to renew the Church of England by a revival of Catholic doctrine and practise.

It finally failed because Liberals had control of the Church and many Anglican church leaders left and became Roman Catholics.

Nothing in the definition is about who leads. It is about movement. When it is said "youth movement", it means when youth are moved from one thing to another.

Again, Boys are the material cause, they cannot be also the effecient cause. NJCubScouter, you are making a philosophical error. It is impossible for the material cause to be also the effecient cause. There is NOTHING IN the definition that says whatever precedes it runs it.

This sixth definition is the key. Of course the Boy Scouts is a movement. The Boy Scouts is about "moving" from one position to another position. It is perfect. Boys do not remain Boys; they change into something. Boys change into men. So it is the Boy Scout movement.

Because as originally envisioned as a process of moving boys to manhood. Manhood as being "some special end".

If it is as alot opine as a place for fun and games then the Boy Scouts are a program as mentioned in the mission and vision statements and in the modern Handbook. But if the original intent was to MOVE boys to MANHOOD, THEN IT IS A MOVEMENT.

Can I direct your attention to the Post: Socrates, Culture defines Politics. In the reply field, there is a synopsis of Antonio Gramsci and the socialist ideas of transforming the culture to change politics.

We see here the transformation of ideas in order to transform churches and institutions, to serve socialist modalities.

As further proof that I am gettting hot is that I can no longer able to access sites linked to this website. George Orwell is proud of you. You guys do a good job. Just think if I am able to read other stuff that is now hidden---what other things shall we uncover!?!

Only, Cockroaches hide in the dark. Truth seeks light, Evil darkness.

The liberals are now going to punish the Boy Scouts for their stand.

With inflation growing every year and constantly, every body looks to the government for an handout. Since liberals control the government, they get to control who gets it.

Cuios Regio, Euius Religo.

"In Pericles' Funeral Speech Thucydides defines the attitude of the Athenian state to the new culture: though he places much importance of the cultivation of the mind, he limits 'philosophoumen' by the warning 'anev malakias: the ideal is intellectual culture without effeminacy." (1)

An old educational treatise from the mid 1800's that I picked up in the college library had this "educating without effeminacy" in one of its chapters. In Colonial America and Victorian England this 'anev malakias' was in everybodies' minds. This was a common term and a common term in educational circles.

(1) Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, Vol I, pg 319.

Are we all sure that it is a movement???

Can we let this dog rest Or is there still some discrepancy out there about the meaning of movement?

I do have a question. How does somebody take the leap that if it is called a "youth movement" that only the youth run it?????

Now employing the Socratic method to the above opinion, if it is called the "Oxford movement" does this mean that only people named "Oxford" get to run it?

Furthermore, my mom would sign a form that prevented me from going to the rifle range everyyear I went to Boy Scout Camp at Pico Blanco.

Feminists hate rifles and guns. One can see their influence in the modern handbook. There is not one picture or word of gun or rifle in the modern handbook.

Who is directing our culture? Men or Women? Whose directing the Boy Scouts? Manly culture of Feminist culture??

I read that 50% of the youth in the venturing programs are female!!!! How many boys in the Girl Scouts?????? CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW MANY BOYS IN THE GIRL SCOUTS????

How come this discrepancy? Can anyone tell me why there are no boys in the Girl Scouts but women in the Boy Scouts???

Do they NOT HAVE THEIR own organization????? Why is it necessary for them to be in the Boy Scouts when there is the Girl Scouts?????

This is taken from www.geocities.com/~pack215/hist-cs-women.html   The article is The changing Role of Women in Cub Scouting.

A SOCIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION

In the earliest days of the Cubbing program, women were allowed only limited participation. They were not allowed to register with the BSA. They could not hold the role of Cubmaster, Committee member, or Commissioner. Those positions were reserved for registered men only.

Since 1930 however, women have gained full participation in the program. This process has been gradual, but continual. It wasn't until 1976, forty-six years after the initiation of 'Cubbing,' that women were finally granted the ability to serve as Cubmasters, assistant Cubmasters, and all commissioner positions. They were also authorized that year to participate in Cub Scout Trainer and Scouter Wood Badge courses to which women had been previously denied access to.

TODAY The position of Chief Scout Executive and BSA President are still the domain of men, but its only a matter of time! Many women are holding top level professional positions within the BSA. On the volunteer side, there are more registered women in all levels of Cub Scouting than men. In some Packs, the lack of male participation has become problematic. Many units now focus on ways to attract more men during their annual membership drives.

....and the pendulum continues to swing!

I want people to notice the title of this extract:  SOCIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION.  That is right.  It is about evolving the Boy Scouts into a womens organization.

It is not about THE BOYS.  It is about themselves.  They dont care who they hurt.  They dont care about boys and what they need.  It is not about doing what is BEST for boys.  It is about THEM.  Their status, their satisfaction of envy and covetousness.  It is about them and they dont care who they destroy.  Is it really healthy for boys to be led and controlled by women??????  Do they care?  NOOOOOOO.  It is about them.

Evolution.  That is really what is going on in the BSA movement.  The BSA is evolving into something else completely.  The satisfaction of women.  The BSA is just another trophy of conquest for the feminist movement.  And it is just another nail in the coffin for masculinity and manhood.  The total subjection of men to females will be complete.

Who preaches Evolution?  Only Socialists, Communists, Liberals and Fascists.  Evolution is socialistic modality.

Its only a matter of time isnt it for the BSA to completely fold under the attacks of Feminism.  Instead of women urging their husbands to do their duty, women are taking the place of men.

(This was not the ariticle I saw, there are others out there proclaiming the Evolution of Scouting.  Yes, an evolution from its original intent to progressive values and the effeminizing of men.)

I ask you again Red Feather, What is a movement? The boys are in a movement? What do they move towards?

Lord Baden-Powell used these words in his "Aid to Scoumastership"

"Virile trusty race of citizens". What is the first adjective he used?

To OGE

The Roman Catholic Church is rife with effeminacy. The bishops and the priests. The go from High School, to College, to Seminary, to the serving in Parishes. They never learn what it means to be a man. They lived the soft life all those years.

They can't defend the truth. They cannot preach from the scriptures. "They're afraid they might hurt someone's feelings". Most of them are besotten with feminism. The Catholic Priest here says that St. Paul is a misogynist. He is a feminist liberal. They wouldn't know what a man even if it ran them over.

They can't defend their own teachings. They cannot discipline. They are weak throughout.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

After defining the virtues in the Republic, Plato remarks that it is evident that virtue is the health, beauty, and well being of the soul, while vice is the disease, ugliness, and weakness of the soul. (1) And he goes on to add that, this being the case, it is ridiculous to ask which life is preferable, the virtuous or the wicked, the just or the unjust.

This is taken from Platos View of Man by Constantine Cavarnos, Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Belmont, MA. 1975, pg 41-42.

The word just and unjust is from the Greek word dikaiosyne.  It should really read, to distinguish it from the way Socialists use it, righteous and unrighteous.  Dikaiosyne is in its primary sense means righteousness and justice is secondary meaning.

The qualities which usually came under the nave of aretai, excellences or virtues, in the Greek poliscourage, prudence, justice, pietyare excellences of the soul just as health, strength, and beauty are excellences of the bodyThe cosmic nature of physical and spiritual virtue is simply the symmetry of the parts on whose co-operation both soul and body depend.

This is taken from Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, Vol II, pg 44.

Both Constantine Cavarnos (1975) and Werner Jaeger (1943)point out the importance of virtue and both back up Socrates/Plato and calling them the excellences of the soul.  As physical fitness is to the body, Virtues are to the soul.  Man is both body and soul.  Both have to be perfected.

Why has the word "Virtue" been abandoned by the Boy Scout Movement?  Why has "values" supplanted it ?

(1) This is footnoted by the author, Republic, 444d-e

Xenophon in the Memorbilia, 4.4.14f, writes that Socrates made it a point to emphasize that "the ideal of obedience to law as the highest civic virtue." (1) Some people want to derail true politics about discussing "rights". But in religion and in the state, it is obedience to laws that is the highest regard and the toughest to attain. The destruction of this country is due to the non-obedience to Scripture and the Constitution.

True patriotism is that which there is a "LOVE" of the laws of ones' own country for they form the "soul" of the country. If you love the laws of your country, then you love your country. Patriotism.

(1) Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, trans by Gilbert Highet, Vol II, pg 49.

Yes, it was Socrates that said the most important thing in a man's life is to care for his soul and to seek after truth. It is Socrates that the whole of Western Culture rests on. It was he that had the greatest influence other than Jesus on our way of life.

It was Socrates that emphasized VIRTUE and Virtue is what the soul needs. Virtue is mentioned in the Boy Scout Federal Charter of 1915. Not values. Socrates has had an impact on the Boy Scouts from its very inception.

Effeminacy is the greatest scourge of our time. Look at the spread of "gay marriages". There are over 60 million Roman Catholics in this country sufficient numbers to hold a big majority in any election and other Christian denominations, yet gay marriages are spreading. Why? Because of the "weakness" of church leaders and bishops to preach and teach the truth and to discipline. The leaders are soft, the people are soft. Softness is every where. There is no rule of law. Rule of law requires hardness. Effeminacy is the rule of the day.

Socrates was a citizen of Athens. He refused to escape his death sentence in order to be an obedient citizen.

From An Introduction to Greek Philosophy, by J.V. Luce, l992 pg 66.

This is about Anaxagoras

"...when someone asked him, 'Have you no care for your country?' he replied, 'I have a greate care for my country', (pointing to the sky."

Mr. Luce remarks immediately "The anecdote marks him out as the first explicit 'cosmopotitan', that is to say, 'citizen of the universe', owing allegiance to scientific truth rather than to Athens or Clazomenae."

The saying "Know yourself" is a Delphic saying inscribed upon the front of the temple. It is NOT a Socratic saying as the website says.

To the answer that there is no clear understanding of the Greek word malakos, examples from Aristotle are provided.

From the Athenian Constitution.

Kings were no longer chosen from the house of Codrus, because they were thought to be luxurious and to have become SOFT.

The Greek reads trufan kai malakous yeyonenai. (1)

some of the Kings proved cowardly in warfare

The Greek reads ta polemia malakous. (2)

From the Eudemian Ethics.

Hence some people who are even very soft about certain things,

The Greek reads dio kai sfodra tives ovtes malakoi. (3)

From On Virtues and Vices.

Cowardice is accompanied by softness, unmanliness, faint-heartedness

The Greek reads malakia. (4)

The concomitants of uncontrol are softness and negligence

The Greek reads malakia.

(1) The Athenian Constitution, Aristotle, Loeb Classical Library, Vol 285, Fr 7; pg 13.

(2) Ibid, pg 15

(3) Eudemian Ethics, same volume, pg 316

(4) On Virtues and Vices, same volume, pg 497

(5) Ibid, pg 499

I just answered this on the other thread which is on the Scoutmaster, the Effecient cause.

OGE, I do believe another philosopher said that. I will do my research. I also am asuming that he used the word "Kosmos" which means the "Universe" a much larger entity. And if he said that, he meant the "world of Truth". He was put to death by the demos. He took a stand against all evil. He would not participate in any evil. Promoting and participating in the UN is morally wrong and patriotically wrong. Socrates would do no evil.