vmpost

The game I have has 2 sides to the page you are referring to. I have them scanned and ready to go, but I need an email address.

Not all of 'em! I've got two from 1914. The guy died and his wife didn't want to bury him in 'em - or them with him. She gave them to me.

We are doing the "Future" thing, too. We are using an assortment of old boxes & toilet paper tubes to make rockets and robots. Taking some aluminum foil to cover the boxes, construction paper for control panels, wiggle eyes, pipe cleaners for antenna, ...

What about candy clay? You can make all kinds of things with it, it handles much like Play-Dough, and you can make a wide assortment of colors. Boys can take it home after, or eat it at the banquet. Want the recipe?

Cool! This is what I like to see. Our boys developed the plan for Klondike Derby this year and said they just wanted a "fun" one...not working on skills, competing, etc. Just playing. The points they are earning are candy, and that is their "reward"! All will get a certificate with total points earned, but no trophies, etc. The only "award" will go to the group with the best Scout Spirit.

Good of you to remind them, in case they had forgotten and wanted to place. Good for them for their outlook. Good for you for respecting that (& seeing the humor in it!)

One further note...each area has at least six things to do with the requirement that the parts be divided equally among team members. This means that in most cases, each team member will have to do at least one part, and may even get to select the area he is best at. Depending on team size, they may do more than one part. So, the older ones aren't going to be overpowering the younger ones. I am also trying to prevent Troops from "stacking" a virtual patrol, which is what happens when the reward is too tempting, whether we support virtual patrols or not.

We actually have Scouts who have recognized they were unfair competition and withdrew themselves from competing against any Scouts. One knew he was unfair competition for ALL the Scouts and most the adults in Pioneering. (He was Pioneering MB counselor at a summer camp for two summers, and was one who made sure the boys did ALL the requirements. He recently competed on a Coast Guard cutter in a friendly competition, and at 18, out-tied everyone except a 30-year-old veteran.) We have many of the Scouts in the District who hold to this standard and take time to help those who don't "get it".

Aww, come on. Seed says she wears the uniform to all events, and from what I've observed from her other posts, she IS putting her all into Scouting. She is active, involved, and interested. She says nothing about it hindering her role nor about it being more important to be fashionable than to be in uniform. She is simply stating, Aaaargh! The uniform is ugly, unfashionable, and fits very poorly. Would you spend $45 anywhere else for an outfit that is ugly and fits poorly? Probably not. That's all...don't read more into it. She is venting.

Old Grey Eagle says, "have events that would attract scouts. If you have the same fire building to burn the string each time, or knot "kims game" or whatever it is, you can expect poor attedance, make the kids WANT to come."

FYI -- we DO have events that attract Scouts. Our entire high school for the entire town is less than 85 students. So...you get the same kids who are on the football, basketball (or wrestling), and track teams; who are also on the Speech team, in the One Act Play, Quiz Bowl, Science Olympiad, and just about everything else in school. Their teams rely on them. Most of the towns around here are similar.

BECAUSE we have fun events, several of the boys show up for the part of the day they can be here for, then leave. We make the activities available to them while they are here... whether they have a "patrol" or not. Make the kids WANT to come? They want to. But they have other obligations, too. Make them choose? Why on earth would we want to do that? Then our Scouting program around here would have only 2 boys per troop max.

How about we continue to make it fun & available for them, and accept them however they are? And if the boys make "teams" from different troops, WHO CARES?!? They are bonding with lifelong friends.

So...please tell me guys...what IS the perfect plan for a Klondike Derby that a) will get ALL the Scouts here, b) will utilize the patrol method 100%, c) doesn't pit the younger boys against the older boys (which is what we were trying to avoid), d) will get the boys to choose Scouts over their District (State-qualifying) Basketball game or Winter Royalty, and e) be so fun & novel that no-one will want to miss? Especially given the small town sizes I've described, where the kids are very involved. I'd love to sponsor this dream Derby. Please help me.

BALOO is geared more towards the paperwork side & "how to plan" for first-timers. The Webelos Outdoor training is more hands-on on outdoor activities and is based on a little more experience. There is a section on outdoor cooking, Fire Starting, First Aid, nature hikes, and ideas for the 4 outdoors WAB's (Webelos Activity Badges) Geology, Naturalist, Outdoorsman, and Forester. In our district, we also include a section on Pioneering (Knot-Tying) and Orienteering (Compasses). Some topics covered may overlap Baloo, but it really is a way different training. I hope you have the opportunity to try take the course.

Yes, the uniforms are ugly and unflattering. And how they sell ANY (how do you spell that word) coulottes is beyond me. And I agree, Yeah, right, let's all rush out and get a skirt to wear with the Big Bird Yellow shirt/ blouse so we can be REAL outdoorswomen!

But not ALL women wear turtlenecks underneath. I don't. It isn't part of the uniform.

When I'm with my home pack, I might wear olive WOMEN'S pants which I have purchased, but I don't wear a turtleneck. Sorry to ruin that idea.

Since this was triggered by a comment I made, let me explain: We are utilizing teams, not patrols, during part of the Derby. While I understand the problem of virtual patrols: 1) Most do it anyway. 2) Some of the events cannot be done by a team of 2 people. 3) We have typically small troops out here...often a troop only has one patrol. 4) Is it just semantics...team vs. patrol? Maybe. But we even combine boys from different troops. We really are doing the events as teams, not neccesarily patrols. 5) Yes, when patrols are split by age, it is harder to get an older group that fills the 50% requirement. However, IN OUR SITUATION, most of the older boys are helping on staff rather than participating. Partly because many of the older boys are leaving the Derby early due to other committments. (Basketball teams, Winter Royalty, etc.)

THIS portion of the Derby is NOT promoting patrols. I am sorry if that upsets you. The other portions of the Derby ARE ALL done as patrols. This section did not lend itself to the patrol method. Instead, it is meant to encourage comaraderie between the TROOPS. Novel idea. We are not promoting killer competition either. Another novel idea. We are not giving "prizes"...just attaboys. The boys are being assessed for Scout Spirit. (I know I said they get docked points for adult leaders helping, but then, you don't know anything about the "point system" do you? It is pieces of candy. It does not count towards a prize.)

Our own troop consists of only 2 patrols. The New Scout Patrol is the one "competing", with their Troop Guide alongside to encourage them to do the activities. This basic scenerio is true of 95+% of the troops coming. Ideally, yes, there would be activites for all the different levels of ability. This may work just spiffy for those of you who have more boys in your troop than we have for Klondike.

Reality check...due to the weather here, we will probably only have about 50 Scouts here for our Derby. What the %*#@! do you expect with this situation? I KNOW HOW THINGS SHOULD BE..."IDEALLY". This is not an ideal world NOR do small groups lend themselves to "ideal" Scouting...we do what we can, then we adapt.

Due to the older boys wanting to play some of the games, they will have a chance also. I only posted a very small portion of the whole picture. I'm sorry I added that much.

This may sound "odd", but try simply telling the Scout, "Your instruction from me is to follow the instructions of your PL." We had a Scout who wouldn't listen to his PL and even told an SA, "I don't have to do what you say. My mom said I only have to listen to the SM." Whoa! That went over real well...NOT! I had a SM Conference with him & explained how things are supposed to work...Chain of command, etc. I told him if he was going to do as I said, I was saying to follow instructions given by his PL, SPL, ASPL, SA's, etc. I also told him to follow this chain of command if there was a problem. If he didn't, he & I went back through the chain together. I warned him that if it continued, he'd lose privileges within the troop. We are a team, and if a team doesn't listen to the coach, we will all be running around aimlessly.

Meanwhile, congrats on doing so well at the Klondike Derby. We are hosting one next week, and one of the instructions to the judges is that the teams lose points if the SM (or any adult) helps. Scouts & leaders are told this ahead of time, too. This is one of my pet peeves. (We are also requiring teams to be at least 50% First Class & below.)

Which leads to another question...were there prizes or plaques for winning? I have some issues with this, too. I think that is why so many older Scouts & adults "help" which is tantamount to cheating.

We've had to suspend a Scout, and sometimes we put a Scout on probation with the stipulation that the Scout may attend WITH A PARENT IN ATTENDANCE for 6 months worth of meetings and 6 months worth of outings. They may not attend if the parent is not there. At the end of this time, a re-assessment will be made. (Note that 6 months of meetings & 6 months of outings means attended...so if it takes 10 months for that Scout to attend 6 outings, that is the 6 months. If it takes 1 1/2 years to get in the 6 months of meetings, so be it.)

It (TDC) may be a requirement in that council...I've also had people tell me you had to take TDC to be District Training Chair or even on District Training Staff...NOT true in our district. So I suspect it's a decision made by that council.

We use a quilt rack to display the blanket. It has a shelf above to display keepsakes and a long pole so we can hang other things, too, like neckerchiefs. We hang shirts or caps off the end caps. Works Swell!

CalicoPen, what a neat Cubmaster you had as a role model. You can bet all those boys, whether in "correct" uniform or not, remembered the right way after those moments of gentle praise of what was right. THIS is what Scouting is about!

kraut-60, Ease up already...it was said in jest I'm sure. I feel wearing the uniform is important, and wearing it correctly is important, too. However, as you said, "A Scout is Friendly....courteous....kind.." There are usually at least two ways to tell someone something, and one of those ways IS nice.

Most (not all) of the "uniform police" are not friendly, courteous, nor kind in the way they "correct" people. Is it done discreetly so there in no embarrassment of the Scout or Scouter? Is it done in a nice way, rather than putting down someone for being so dumb as to not know or care about the right way? Why is the uniform put together incorrectly...could you help them out by showing them the right placement of patches and helping them sew them on? Is public humiliation or ridicule used to coerce them to wear it right? THIS is what I've seen time and again from "uniform police" and it drives Scouts & Scouters away from the uniform VERY fast!

Is it a complete stranger's job to "correct" a youth's attempt at uniforming? Or would this be better left to the SM? It would be more appropriate to talk to the adult in charge of the unit and let them handle it.

They're not wearing their patches correctly? They are wearing the uniform. So what if the World Crest emblem is 1/4" off center?!?! Wouldn't you rather have that than NO uniform?!?!

What about talking to your Training Chair and seeing if he/she will offer it one-on-one? DE? If you don't much care about earning the Webelos knot, ask if you can borrow the syllabus to read through...it's not the same as experiencing training, but can give you a lot of good ideas to get started. If you want the knot, maybe you could complete the training with a group later. It's worth a try...

I agree that having inadequate materials is a bad idea. This is why there are so many different "standards" out there...we each teach our own interpretation, which isn't all bad, but allows for much dissension amongst the ranks. The panel who has input on these new materials is mostly volunteer, so we get what they think we need.

Get the Patrol Leader's Handbook & Senior Patrol Leader's Handbook. They have some great information in them. You will still have to put together your own material, but this is a good place to start.

(Maybe we can make our syllabi available to other leaders through this forum and save each other from re-inventing the wheel?)

Do you have quality trained leaders in place in your troop? Meet with them...what do they think needs inculded? What would they do differently? The last several years, our troop leaders run the training and the adults are facilitators. As long as they include some core things you all agree on, they can and will make a more interesting presentation than adults.

I yam what I yam. Do I care what others think of me? Not a chance. As long as I am true to myself.

Again, if you want to follow BSA guidelines, JASM's are to be "at least 16 years old and not yet 18". I realize it's not a concern for some whether they follow the guidelines, but I'm just stating the "policy". I find it helps eliminate the problem with immature Scouts & immature parents wanting their son to fill this role. They can't until they are 16, period. This is a position that is appointed by the SM for his leadership ability. In our troop, we also request they have attended NYLT prior to accepting this office. This helps in their maturity, knowledge, and understanding. Is this "adding to the requirements"? I don't think so, because JASM isn't a requirement for anything.

Good point John...the SPL or PL should receive mentoring & guidance from the adults in how to select the best suited for the job.

What SR540Beaver says is based on the recommendation of BSA. In JLT & the JL Handbook, it indicates that the SPL & PL's are the only elected positions. The others are all appointed (by SPL,PL, or SM) positions.

In reality, your troop may do something slightly different, as SR540Beaver's does. Our troop is small, so we have only one SPL & one ASPL. The boys wanted to elect the ASPL & have them move into the SPL position when it's time to move up, but he would have the SPL to mentor him until then. Makes sense for us...they just elect their SPL months before he takes office.

Flip side (maybe I'm under the soapbox instead of on it?):

I have been to trainings where incorrect information was stated as fact. When I questioned the instructor about it, I was told I was mistaken. When I showed them in the manual where it said it, they were astounded and thought it must be an outdated manual. (It wasn't.)

I have also been to trainings where the trainer sat in a chair and read the syllabus verbatim. Never changed tone, never looked up. For pity's sake! Those people can read too!

The first incident led me to get involved in training. The second happened when I was District Training Chair, and it was one of my instructors. I was appalled. I stepped in and did one of those "tree check" kind of things...got that instructor re-directed and filled in the rest of that session myself.

It is. Directly from Philmont's letter, "Please note, the minimum age required to attend Philmont is 14 by January 1 of the year attending OR have completed the eighth grade and be at least 13 prior to participation, without exception."

To borrow a quote from one of my favorite characters, "I yam what I yam." Sometimes I am "liberal", sometimes I am "conservative"...it really depends on the topic, doesn't it? While I tend toward conservativeness, I am quite liberal in some areas. Does this make me purple?