bnelon44

Just a reminder. See section 2 of the Guide to Advancement.

Rumors I am hearing are that outdoor emphasis will be increasing, not decreasing in the future. That seems to fit with the marketing we are seeing featuring the West Virginia Scout Ranch.

We have a new CSE and a new National President. I don't know either but those who do know them say they both have histories of success. On the youth training side, what is mentioned in the status report is that they are moving NAYLE to the Regional and Council level.

The June and July Advancement News is here: http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1109945141041-2/Advancement+News+JuneJuly+2012.pdf Previous issues are here: http://scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/AdvancementNews.aspx

Found more info: Strategic Plan Progress Report: Summer 2012 http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/StrategicPlan.aspx

I think Kudu was pulling my leg

>Maybe I'll send that in to the program resource email bnelon44 posted. That would be the right place to send it. It is definately and specifically not in the Star and Life requirements now.

Thanks Kudu, What are you quoting from? I found a lot of so called quotes by B-P on the web that turned out were not his.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Serious question: Other than G2SS changes that may require adults on patrol campouts, and some Leave No Trace rules that restrict forest destruction, why can't you implement the program in the 1938 handbook?(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Strategic Plan 4-1-1 Chairman Russ Hunsaker provides an update to the multi-year goal aimed at examining the BSA's program offerings. Video here: My understanding is that suggestions concerning program should be sent to program.content@scouting.org .(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Beavah said, What Green Bar Bill and the BSA materials I quoted from were describing is Step 1 of Advancement: A Scout Learns. Learning requires a lot of practice. Yeh don't learn how to cook by doin' it once. Yeh learn how to cook by doin' it a bunch. A Scout has to learn first. A Scout has to learn before he is tested. That is the BSA program. That has always been the BSA program. That is what the Rules & Regulations and every BSA training tries to explain. " I'll buy that. BSA advancement since Green Bar Bill has always been in 4 steps. (A Scout Learns, is tested, is reviewed

I agree with the previous comments. They did do a study and came up with an average project as taking approximately 130 man hours. Those in the district I am in are closer to 200 man hours. see: http://www.scouting.org/Media/PressReleases/2012/20120410.aspx Better to concentrate on does the project show a good amount of leadership. The new GTA stresses that more than total hours. See: http://scouting.org/scoutsource/GuideToAdvancement/EagleScoutRank.aspx

"Yah, hmmm.... BNelon44, the requirement is "Explain the procedures to follow in the safe handling and storage of fresh meats, dairy products, eggs, vegetables, and other perishable food products". So I guess you'll have to explain to all of da rest of us how the G2A considers knowing about safe handling and storage of eggs is an "arbitrary roadblock in front of the Scout" when the requirement explicitly demands that he know about eggs. " A Scout saying that you keep the fresh eggs in the ice chest would satisfy the requirement. Requiring that he know exactly how long eggs stay fresh in

Fred, Beavah is describing how a boy prepares to be tested. Then he jumps a bit to try to justify the BOR retesting without calling it a retest. I can buy into the first part, get the Scout ready for testing and have the SM then test him. I can't buy into the BOR retesting. If the BOR discovers he was not tested and someone just signed him off without the Scout actually doing what the requirement asks him to do, then yes, the BOR, as I read the GTA, can ask the Scout to go back and get tested. But if the Scout is tested as to what the requirement says and passes, the BOR can't flunk him b

>Well, please define "define" then. Sure. Beavah is using terms like "mastery" OK, over the centuries we have had master plumbers, master masons, master gunners. Is this what he means? Obviously not. Well then a definition is in order. How about "good camper" What does that mean? Does that mean he can camp on his own without adult supervision? No where in the requirements does it describe such a requirement. What does "good hiker" mean? That he can hike without adult supervision? Again, no where does it say that to pass Second Class a Scout has to reach a level

You are using words that different troops would define differently: "mastery" "good hiker" "good camper" If we are going to use such terms in a national organization we need to define them. I think saying that it is expected that the Scout is confortable accomplishing the requriement as stated is probably a good starting point for such a standard definition. Beavah said, ". But it should determine that he actually met the full requirements by being able to prepare a meal smoothly and well under real life conditions. " If that is the requiement, that is what he shoul

Beavah, Ah but what does proficient mean? It means something different to you than it does to others. Do we just except a vague term without a clear definition? In this discussion I am more concerned with people putting arbitrary obstacles in a Scout's way because they feel "a First Class Scout should be know how to ____" fill in the blank. Which I think is what you are advocating. That isn't the standard nor was it ever the standard. The standard to advance is and has always been that the Scout does what it says to do in the requirements. Also, as I have shown, ever since Bill

Beavah said: "For the first three quarters of a century or more of Boy Scouting, there was no need to ever explain that we actually expected boys to have skills (like handlin' food safely). Everyone just knew it. Yeh don't need to write down what everybody knows. " Remember the 10 second rule? (aka 5 second rule, 2 second rule, 5 min rule, etc., etc., etc.) People made up all kinds of stupid rules that caused more problems than not. People don't "just know" how to handle food safely. Green Bar Bill had a whole chapter on keeping food safe in camp in the 1936 Handbook for Scoutmas

Beavah said, "I think what confuses people a lot is that "the requirements" are meant to be the Test. They're what a boy has to demonstrate at the end of learning, not a place to start from. And like any test, "the requirements" don't measure everything a boy needs to be a First Class Scout. No test can measure everything without bein' way, way, way too long. Instead it samples da most important skills, and assumes that a boy demonstratin' those has also picked up on lots of other skills. So, for example, while the test is to explain food safety, the assumption is that in the course of learnin

JMHawkins said, "So, if units are going to update their own records, then why is ScoutNet necessary for mandatory training? Just switch over to Mandatory Training and ask units to check a box next to each required traning that each member of the charter has taken. I mean, if units are going to need to manage their own training reports, then why not have them manage their own training reports? " Because the units never do that correctly. They mix up what needs to be taken all the time. You need a system that leads them by the hand. This isn't very sophisticated companies have had traini

OK, here is a hypothetical for all of you. Which troop Position of Responsibility is the most important to make sure is fully trained and really is doing a good job? You only get to pick one. Explain why.

I think you could do a beading but realize they represent drastically different sizes of endeavors and the ceremonies need to reflect that. Woodbadge is a one week training course the beading represents you completed it and did a few tasks afterwards. That really is all it represents. Eagle represents usually at least 7 years of learning scoutcraft skills, frustration, practical leadership, etc., etc. They are completely different recognitions. You shouldn't short change the Eagle and the beading ceremony can certainly do that. Expecially if the singing goes on for 20 min

GKlose I guess the question to ask the parents is are they interested in developing their sons into leaders or getting a red/white/blue badge asap? What's the goal. If it is the former, the best way in Scouting to do that is the Patrol Method, and that takes a little bit more time than the latter. The positions of responsibility in the troop (like scribe) should have clear job descriptions and should be held accountable for getting the job done. Doing nothing close to what is expected is not acceptable and they should be removed and not credited for the position. See the Guide to

The hold up on mandatory training is ScoutNet. As soon as training can be tracked correctly and there is a way for units to update their records, I would expect mandatory training to happen nationwide. We are probably a couple of years out from that.

well, I've hit a dead end. My guess is B-P never said it.