bnelon44

Thanks Dan. As you mentioned, the emphasis seems to be on the Aims of Scouting with outdoors and leadership thrown in.

BSA Bullying Prevention training defines bullying as:

Bullying is any behavior that is deliberate, hurtful, repeated over time. It is usually characterized by a relationship involving an imbalance of power, such as size or popularity.

Bullying can be physical, verbal, emotional, social, behavioral, or any combination.

Bullying can take place just about anywhere: on the bus, at school, at soccer practice, even online via the Internet.

http://scouting.org/Training/Adult/Supplemental.aspx

A Scouting Magazine article on the topic

https://myscouting.scouting.org/_layouts/emagazine/resources/34.htm

Beavah,

Under current process, no one has to approve the final project plan. It is developed by the Scout and the beneficiary. In fact the final project plan is not indicated as mandatory and there is no place in the workbook for anyone to sign off on it. According to the process, if it is reviewed it is reviewed by the Project Coach, not the Scoutmaster. The Project Coach is someone selected to do that job by the District (not necessarily the Scoutmaster.)

In section 9.0.2.7 of the Guide to Advancement we find:

It is also acceptable for the coach or the advancement

administrator responsible for approvalif he or she

becomes concerned the project will not meet the

requirements or it will not be completed to the satisfaction

of the benefi ting organizationto contact the Scout

and his parent or guardian and, as appropriate, a

representative of the beneficiary. However, even though

the project coach may provide guidance critical to

success, final design issues are ultimately between the

Scout and the beneficiary. For limitations on the coachs

role, see Eagle Scout Service Project Coach, 9.0.2.9.

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Dan,

"approval on recommended integration of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts fundamentals"

What does integration of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts fundamentals mean?

So in this case the city is asking to be covered under BSA's general liability insurance?

Fred and Dan,

That is excellent. I think the adult goals can be summed up in the Aims and Mission of the BSA.

The aims of Scouting: character development, citizenship training,

and mental and physical fitness

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Don't know Beavah. What I quoted says the council would have to buy into accident/medical coverage. Also, I don't know enough to know if the general public would be covered for events.

The advice of getting ahold of the council's Program Director is a sound one. The council puts on this sort of thing all the time and understands the liability.

I agree, if the Scout feels he has completed the project and satisfied the other Eagle requirements, hold an Eagle Board of Review.

Here is what the Guide to Advancement says about Eagle Project insurance:

9.0.2.15 Insurance and Eagle Scout Projects

The Boy Scouts of Americas General Liability Policy

provides general liability insurance coverage for official

Scouting activities. Registered adult leaders are provided

primary coverage. Unregistered adults participating in a

Scouting activity are provided coverage in excess of their

personal insurance.

Every council has the opportunity to participate in the

BSA Accident and Sickness insurance program. It

provides insurance for medical and dental bills arising

from Scouting activities. If councils do not purchase this,

then units may contract for it. In some cases chartered

organizations might provide insurance, but this must

not be assumed. Most of these programs provide only

secondary coverage, and are limited to registered youth

and adults and those interested in becoming members.

Here is what the Guide to Advancement says:

9.0.2.13 Evaluating the Project After Completion....

There may be instances where, upon its completion, the

unit leader or project benefi ciary chooses not to approve

a project. One or the other may determine modifications

were so material that the extent of service, or the impact

of the project, were insufficient to warrant approval. The

candidate may be requested to do more work or even

start over with another project. He may choose to meet

these requests, or he may decideif he believes his

completed project worthy and in complianceto complete

his Eagle Scout Rank application and submit his project

workbook without final approval. He must be granted a

board of review, should he request it.

It says hazards, so I am pretty sure they mean hazards, not situations.

Candles left unattended would be a possible hazard in a Church.

Yep, 6 months is usually how long it takes to figure out the SPL job. The program has always been that the Scouts in the troop can reelect the SPL if they want to have him around a bit longer in that position. That is the problem I have with the ASPL to SPL forced progression. It forces out the SPL prematurely.

I added a bit to my post.

Barry

I have had 10 years as Scoutmaster, and over 18 years with the troop as an adult leader. Also served on District and Council positions.

Your right it does take, on average, 6 months for an SPL to figure out how to do the job.

I guess you could use the 6 months as an ASPL to learn the job of an SPL, however normally an ASPL doesn't get enough responsibility to actually learn the SPL job. So my question is, I guess, how do you actually turn the 1st 6 month ASPL job into something substantial enough to really turn it into on the job training for SPL so that there isn't a learning curve.

Getting a boy to commit to 12 months is a big commitment so I can see why your PLC didn't like the idea of a 12 month commitment.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

eolesen

So what your saying is your troop elects an SPL for 12 months and they know that the first 6 months is a learning period. After the 12 months they are out because another one is waiting in the wings. So you don't allow the Scouts to reelect their SPL. Why?

Seems like something an adult would construct not a 12 year old boy. Wouldn't that be against the idea that the Scouts can elect their own leader and can reelect them as many times as they would like?(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

>When you have a boy scout get Eagle and then they leave the program, that is an indictment of your program, that it's weak.

Maybe it just is an indication that your unit has set Eagle as the ultimate goal.

GTA vs Requirements

Requirements are very specific

The GTA (policy and process) tries to stay out of the weeds and give different units different latitude. Mainly because we have so many different sizes of units sponsored by so many different types of sponsoring organizations. This makes the BSA a bit different than other Scouting organizations that are centrally controlled.

The BSA does have some definitions for terms though. For example a "unit leader" is defined as: "The adult leader of a unit is a Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor, or Skipper."

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/LOS/All.aspx

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Eagledad

Again the idea is to get them the tools so they can do the program which accomplishes the Aims. That's the purpose of the T2F requirements.

The goal is to achieve the Aims. That doesn't happen overnight. To keep them in the program so that can happen, you get them active right away. But Scouts who don't have the skills get frustrated and quit. It is the Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing model of team development. See:

http://bsatroop14.com/patrolmethod/MatchingLeadershipStylestotheNeedsofScouts.pdf

You think taking 18 months to teach a boy how to camp is in a hurry?

Adding to this thread a bit late. But IMHO the reason for First Class Emphasis is to give the boys the skills to play the game. That is what T2F is: learning the skills to be able to camp.

We want them to learn to camp so they can get going on the adventure we promised them. And in doing the T2F requirements it gets them out right away to experience camping.

It doesn't have to be done in 12 months, but about that amount of time. Say 12-18 months.

my 2-cents

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

The SM can really determine what is or is not important to the Scouts. This is a good example. If a SM concentrates on a "goal" of becoming Eagle, he shouldn't be surprised when his Scouts disappear after getting Eagle.

emb021

There are 3 regional NAYLE classes scheduled for this month and August. They are all still on the calendar as far as I can tell

http://www.nayle.org/pdfs/2012_RegionalNAYLE_flyer_v1.pdf

For those who don't know what we are talking about, a video of NAYLE is here:

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

For those who haven't read it, it might be worthwhile to take 5 minutes and read:

Advancement Defined:

http://scouting.org/scoutsource/GuideToAdvancement/AdvancementDefinied.aspx

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

From the Guide to Advancement:

Advancement Defined

Advancement is the process by which youth members of the Boy Scouts of America progress from rank to rank.

It Is a MethodNot an End in Itself

Advancement is simply a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is one of several methods designed to help unit leadership carry out the aims and mission of the

Boy Scouts of America.

=============

So there you go. Advancement is a means to an end, not an end in itself. That end would be the goal. What is that end? That end, that important thing that advancement should be achieving is not getting Eagle. What is it then? Well it says in section 2. That end goal is to carry out the aims and mission of the BSA. That is the is the goal of the program, that is the goal of advancement and that should be the goal of every unit.

Focusing on any rank, including Eagle is getting your eye off the goal. Your making advancement an end in itself. But that isn't the goal. The goal is character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness.

Too many parents think the goal is to get Eagle and then get out and have their sons do other things, maybe things they think are more important (like sports.)

I think one of our jobs is to explain to them what the real goals are.

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

> Why do you need an SPL?

Good point. There is another thread on strengthening the Patrol Leader