bnelon44

This has been universally known throughout the professional ranks for a number of years. This is the second time this presentation is being made as a web meeting. To see the presentation, go to: www.scouting.org/training National is revamping ScoutNet and supposedly a new system will be rolled out next year some time. Not sure how it will affect training records initially though. There is a lot of material for those who enter training records into the current ScoutNET at the right of the page at: www.scouting.org/training

Beavah, The council has authority in certain areas as well as the responsibility to administer certain advancement items and oversee others. The Eagle Rank and Merit Badges are to be administered by the Council following National policies. The council can also remove any merit badge counselor or any other adult volunteer for any reason or no reason. I am pretty sure they can also revoke any unit charter (that is probably the ultimate in authority.)

"it has not been clearly stated in the past" Could be said for most advancement policies. That is why I really like the new GTA.... and probably why many do not.

Eagle92, Units cannot invent a merit badge application other than a blue card. The merit badge process is administered by the council (not the unit) and spelled out in the GTA. Everyone must use the process in the GTA. And the blue card is suppose to be the official national merit badge application. Councils are suppose to get permission from national to use something else (I know some do, but that is being rectified/clarified). It is all spelled out in the GTA(This message has been edited by bnelon44)(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

>But in the course of the BOR when asking questions related to his overall scouting expereince it comes out that some of the requirements for these MBs were not completed, so what is the BOR to do? As I stated, G2A doesn't allow for a BOR to deny a MB; once it's signed off it is done. BUT the G2A also states a BOR has a responsibility to make sure the requirements are met for the rank, and can deny the rank explaining what the scout need to do to meet the requirements. The requirements for the rank are that he complete the merit badge. Once it is signed off, he has completed it. Now if he put down a merit badge that he didn't get signed off, that would be a different story and the BOR can catch that. Or if he put down a non-eagle badge and counted it as an eagle badge, again the BOR can and should catch such errors and have the Scout rectify them. However, as far as the correct badges being taken, if the badge is signed off, it is done. The BOR cannot take it away from the Scout if it thinks one of the requirements of the badge was not met. It is very clear in the GTA sections 7.0.0.0, 8.0.0.0 and in the back where it has the BSA bylaws that there is no BOR process for reviewing merit badge work.

> "I think the point of the new rules is that the EBoR isn't supposed to be delving into merit badge minutia so as to avoid a youth saying that he was "robbed of his Eagle" because "some board of old men didn't believe that he'd done what he'd said he'd done". If it really is clear that he hasn't done the work, if a Scout were to say something like, "Yeah, I didn't even do X but the merit badge counselor signed off #Y anyway, or something like that" then yeah the EBoR shouldn't pass the Scout. " No, unless there is a clear case of fraudulent behavior on the part of the Scout. Only issue is whether counselor was approved and registered, but even then it is rare a badge would be taken away. Once its earned; its earned. If the MB counselor signed the badge the badge is done. Merit badges aren't rank requirements. The BOR cannot reject or take a badge away from a Scout. In the case of an EBOR the Scout is sitting in front of you with the badge on his sash. What are you going to do, rip it off? You don't have the authority. What is done is done.

Beavah Your not in charge of merit badges and merit badge counselors nor the merit badge program. The council and district is. You can only point the Scout to a counselor you prefer, you don't sit in judgement on the program they perform. If you don't like the counselor, send the Scout to a different counselor or complain to your council. Merit badges ain't your program... they never were a unit program. Always were part of the council delivered program.

>What about if you talk about a MB that they have listed as using for their Eagle, but they really didn't do the work thatthe MBC sign off? Once a merit badge is signed off by a merit badge counselor it is earned. Once it is done it is done. There is no merit badge review process in a Board of Review. See the new GTA, sections 7.0.0.0, 8.0.0.0 and the BSA Bylaws in the back.

>So, in the above scenario, when Eagle wannabee is asked "Are you sure" and he says, "Yes", then what? Other than raise a red flag to the Unit Commissioner that something needs attention (assuming they have a UC and he/she cares), I think you're done. Life Scouts are not required to cook to become Eagle Scouts as a rank requirement. So at EBORs you aren't checking for these types of skill requirements to have been completed.

>However, if the requirement has been signed off by the SM who's to say it has not been met. It is the Board of Review's responsibility to make sure rank requirements have been accomplished by the Scout. The Scout is not required to retain any knowledge once he has met the requirement and the requirement is signed off of for rank advancement (one does hope he remembers and it is the Scoutmaster's responsibility to make sure the program enforces retention, but it isn't part of the rank advancement.) If a board discovers that a Scout didn't do a requirement (for example, didn't make a camp gadget) it is the boards responsibility to hold off advancing the Scout until that requirement is done properly and signed off on. It is pretty well explained in section 8.0.0.0 of the new GTA.

There is no board of review for merit badges. If they are signed off, they are done. See my note above. BORs have to accept signed off merit badges. They don't investigate if a Scout completed any of the merit badge requirements. The BOR can make a judgement call on if a rank requirement was done. But if the Scout has the proper number and type of MBs signed off, then the MB requirement is complete.

I agree from what we know, he earned the rank.

>But asking how the Scout earned all those MBs is a reasonable question. Verifying the requirements are complete is part of any BoRs job. There is no board of review for merit badges. If they are signed off, they are done. 11.5.0.0 Charter and Bylaws and Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America Section 1. Responsibility for Merit Badges, clause 13. The responsibility for merit badges shall rest with the merit badge counselor approved by the local council and district advancement committee. Merit badge counselors shall be registered adult members of the Boy Scouts of America. The merit badge counselor shall prepare and qualify youth members. There shall be no board of review procedure for merit badges, but public recognition may be given at a unit court of honor or other suitable occasion. http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

Just to be clear: Eagle projects do not have to provide lasting value. From the new GTA: 9.0.2.12 Addressing Common Misconceptions 1. No unit, district, council, or individual shall place any requirement or other arbitrary standard on the number of hours spent on a project. The Boy Scouts of America is concerned with hours worked on Eagle Scout service projects and collects this data only because it points to a level of excellence in achievement the BSA aim related to citizenship. 2. Eagle Scout service projects are individual matters. No more than one candidate may receive credit for working on the same project. 3. There is no requirement a project must have lasting value.

I updated the BOR training powerpoint we use in training to reflect the new guidance in the Guide to Advancement. I know it is long, it can be used as a starting point and edited down as needed. http://www.bsatroop14.com/advancement/Board_of_Review_Training.ppt

Interfacing with Internet Advancement is with CSV files, not APIs. When the system is upgraded (which may be a year or two) it is suppose to have APIs.

I agree you can't. I think 1 year is doable if your unit has a good program.

Because Basementdweller's note sounded like he was saying more than the Scout who passes the requirements gets the rank.

What am I missing? Your missing the Scoutmaster who doesn't think the Scout deserves the rank for some personal view of what "take care of yourself in the woods" means to the Scoutmaster. Also you may or may not be assuming the Scout retains that knowledge by the time he makes it to the BOR. Neither are required for advancement.

Basementdweller This is a noble sentiment however there is NO requirement for first class that reads "make sure you know enough so the Scoutmaster thinks you can take cae of yourself in the outdoors." Your reading much more into the rank than is there. You are adding requirements that are not there. For all ranks, you do what is in the requiements and you earn the rank. Period. Anything extra, is just that, extra to advancement. Everyone must remember that advancement is just one of eight methods of delivering the promise and we can't cram more into them than are written. If you want your Scouts to do more, great, but do it outside advancement and don't hold up a Scout's advancing with preconceived notions of what a 1st Class Scout is or an Eagle Scout is.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

The new workbook is now online at scouting.org http://scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/resources.aspx

Sounds like Scout o Rama

The parent/religous references is explicidly spelled out. That is not the case with the education reference. I don't know how to interpret that. From the new Guide to Advancement 9.0.1.3 Complete the Application ... References: Must list all six (five if not employed). If not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference. ... 9.0.1.7 References Contacted Council advancement committee membersor others designatedcontact the references appearing on the Eagle Scout application. This may be done by letter, form, or phone call. For reasons of privacy and confi dentiality, electronic submissions are discouraged. It is acceptable to send or deliver to the references an addressed envelope with instructions, and perhaps a form to complete. The Scout may assist with this, but that is the limit of his participation. He is not to be responsible for follow-through or any other aspect of the process. It is up to the councils designated representatives to make every effort to collect the responses. If after a reasonable effort no response can be obtained from any references, the board of review must go on without them. It may not be postponed or denied for this reason, and the Scout may not be asked to submit additional references or to provide replacements. Completed reference responses of any kind are the property of the council and are confi dential, and only review-board members and those offi cials with a specifi c need may see them. The responses are not to be viewed by, or returned to, the Scout. Doing so could discourage the submission of negative information. For the same reason, those providing references shall not be given the option of waiving confi dentiality. Once a review has been held, or an appeal process conducted, responses shall be returned to the council, where they will be destroyed after the Eagle Scout credentials are released or the appeal is concluded. ... In Boy Scouting, advancement references are required only for Eagle Scout rank. The council determines methods of contact. Page 51

If you look at the 1936 Handbook for Scoutmasters that introduced the Patrol Method to Scouting you see a troop meeting plan that is very similar to the 1.5 troop meeting plan recommended by the BSA today. The difference is that then the 5 min SM minute was a 30 minute campfire where the SM told a story to the Scouts. The meeting plan back then was 2 hours.

"He (the Eagle candidate) does the project outside the sphere of scouting." Advancement Committee Guidelines, Policy and Procedure, page 27 " I can see where the misunderstanding came from. Well, I guess it is clarified now.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)