Sylvar

Fscouter, can you point me to any pics of the patch you are talking about? The Tote'n Chip patches I remember were round. Just Curious.

Nevermind! I found one on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13886&item=3946145108&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

You are right, that does certainly look like a flap patch. But the Uniform guide doesn't allow it to be worn there.(This message has been edited by Sylvar)

Vicki,

I didn't want to start a debate, just wanted to offer up some additional information to folks. I have to apologize, I just realized that the page I posted the link for doesn't link back to the home page of the site. If you go to just www.keirsey.com there is a lot of good info on dealing with children with all types of personalities and problems.

Shane

I had to put up a short anecdote from my youth scouting days. My troop was planning a trip to hike the Mischa Mokwa trail. This was planned practically a year in advance. This is a trail that twice beaten us in the first 6 miles. The initial ascent is brutal and not every one was in peak shape on one trip and a awful storm blew in on the second attempt. I was on the Cross country team. The only overnight meet of the year was on the same weekend as our hike. I told the coach I wouldn't be able to make it and why. He said if I wasn't on the bus that Saturday I could turn in my team uniform.

We beat Mischa Mokwa that year.....and I turned in my team uniform on the following Monday. Like some else said, it all comes down to what the boys enjoy more. Some will always choose Band or sports, but some will always choose scouting over those other activites.

Shane(This message has been edited by Sylvar)

I have seen these back when I was a scout. There are two issues here: 1)Can you wear it on the right pocket and 2)Does it allow the wearer to forego carrying the card.

The short answers as I see them are 1) Yes and 2)NO!

On the right pocket You can wear any patch that will fit. Incidentally here is a link to what I believe is hands down the best Uniforming guide available in print or on the web: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/insignia.htm

Shane

Vicki,

I have probably 5 boys in my den of 13 who could be diagnosed with ADHD or ADD, but only one who has a true disability. I have to admit I am only responding to your post because of a quote from the link you posted. Please don't think I am shooting the messanger here, I saw some good info for that one boy. But This quote from the home page of that site set me off:

"This website is dedicated to the parents of children who endear themselves to us with their creativity, humor, good nature, and spontaneity, yet infuriate us with their inability to stay organized and on task."

Aside from being a scout one of my other interests is personality types. I have always been fascinated by what makes one person different from another. That quote is the perfect definition of Keirsey's Artisan type. I firmly believe that most kids who get diagnosed (not all) are not suffering from any disorder at all. They are just not accepted for who they are.

An Article I would recommend folks to read is: http://keirsey.com/addhoax.html

The Article itself is very good, but if you read some of his other work(most notably "Please Understand Me II") You can really get a sense of how some kids are getting the short straw just because they are different from the majority that gets to decide the rules.

Again, not trying to start an arguement, just offering a different perspective.

Shane

You know, thats the first thing people say when they find out I am from Kentucky. "REALLY? You don't have an accent." After a while it gets a little irksome, but I have learned that its best not to make a issue of it.

Nice to see such a strong Ky contingent on here (transplants too!). I remember Scouting being stong in Central KY, but I had no Idea HOW good I had it until I started into this Central Ohio District. I thought Camp McKee was just a normal run-of-the-mill scout camp. Having seen 3 camps up here I know it is a gem of a place. I would love to know if Camp-o-ree attendance is still as strong as I remember. In this district it is disgraceful how few attend. (I know, if you run a good Camp-o-ree, they will come. Give me time! I am still working on the Cub Program here! )

There other things too, but better to work on those things than sit around and complain

Shane

Fscouter,

You have brought up one of the things that really yanks my chain about the council. Donations. Why on earth can't a pack accept them? People want to support scouting in THEIR community....I say let them! Isn't it a "Donation" when I spend my own money to do something for our pack? One of our Den Leaders bought an electronic lane judge for our derby track last year. Technically thats not allowed because it was a donation to the pack instead of the almighty Council.

When I grew up I was in a small council. They could to be more responsive to the units than the Uber-council I am in now. But even then, the council did very little to directly support the units. Yes, they shoulder administrative workload, but for all their demands on the units you would think I would get a little more bang for my buck.

Gonna stop now before I really go on a tear.

Shane

Me too! Sign me up for 7 3/8!

Thanks!

Shane

Another anecdote:

Day before we went out on the trail (I can't remember if this was 1988 or 1990) 5 scouts died in a lightning strike. The had just rolled into their camp as it was starting to rain. A detail was dispatched to get the bear bags up before the storm hit while the rest of the crew got the tents up. Lightning struck the bear bag cable as the boys were hoisting up the bags.

Shane

Ahhh! Good to hear! Living up here in Buckeye country its hard to get my UK fix satisfied each year....but I survive. At least I'll get to see this weekends game. Should be a good one!

Shane

The "Classroom Scouting" program mentioned looks to be a "Learning for Life" Program. Learning for life, to my understanding is wholly owned and operated by BSA. You are correct that LFL does not have the same membership restrictions as BSA. LFL programs can feed both BSA and GSA units.

Shane

I grew up in Nicholasville, just south of Lexington. All my family still lives there. I was in Throughbred District.

Since you are near Louisville I gotta ask--- Blue Or Red? LOL

Shane

Oh how I wish 2 wolf dens was possible, But its this way at every rank. Bears have 11 in one den (but 2 leaders), Webelos have 14 in one den with one leader. Tigers - 12 (but 2 leaders).

Encouraging more adults to volunteer it a whole different thread!

I won't kick them out. That goes against my core scouting beliefs. Those 2 boys need the direction and guidance that scouting can offer more than the rest combined.

I like the idea of having the boy come up with rules/consequences. Do you have any more examples of what they came up with?

With both these boys I make a point of praising good behaviour and telling them how much I appreciate it. But that doesn't seem to be enough and honestly I don't get to do it very often. The bad behaviour is so bad that it cannot go ignored.

I agree that parent attendance doesn't always help. There are times I wish the parents were not there. Class Clown's Mom is always there, and she trys to control him and is honestly embarrassed by his behaviour. However, Her methods are not effective and frankly she issues to many threats that she doesn't follow through on. "Me first" is a different story. I have seen him behave. He CAN do it. And he does a better job of it when his mom is present, but she has a Webelo and our WL requires parent attendance. (I will be bringing this up at the next committee meeting.)

I have never tried the talking stick idea, but I have read about it. Is it really that effective?

I am concidering mailing out a note to all scouts parents about behaviour problems we are having in the meetings. I would ask that they all talk to their sons about showing respect for others at the meeting and make good choices while there.

Thanks for all the good input! Keep it coming!

Shane

I have a large wolf den. 13 boys. Most are well behaved with the normal boy rambuncousness. I have 3 that make things very difficult. One is LD/DH and he honestly wants to be good, but he has trouble controlling his impulses. One is a class clown, with a "Look at me" mentality and a tendency to shreik. The third is very bright and very mischievous with a "me first" attitude and a real bad habit of doing the wrong thing because its wrong.

The first one I can deal with , but the other 2 I am having trouble with. I am at my wits end. Last year we split them into separate dens, but we lost our other DL and had to merge them this year.

How does one reach boys like this? Especially with no meaningful help from the parents?

I am open to all suggestions!

Thanks

Shane

JD,

Sometimes it has been as simple as "Best Paint Job" or "Best Driver" other times its more of a "Most Creative Use of Materials" moment. We have 3 judges usually. Design medals are awarded based on a combination of shape. finish and concept. A certificate might be awarded where a scout was strong in one catagory but weak in others. A good example is one year one of our more artistic scouts painted an original cartoon figure and designs on his car. It really was very nice, but the car itself was just a wedge so he got very few points for the shape. He got a certificate for "Most Original Paint Job". Was it made up on the spot? Yes.... was it appropriate? YES! There are those who say certificates are meaningless, but they don't have to be. Just don't give one out for no reason.

More on Judging. Myself, I form my own opinions, but I also like to hang back and see the scouts reactions. Those cars which get a high "COOOOL!" factor from the boys are the ones that really deserve to win.

Shane

New here...nice to see a good active forum devoted to scouting.

About me, hmmm.... Where to start? 15 year exp. Got my Eagle in 1990 (troop 348 in central KY)and was ASM in my troop for awhile. Did Phimont twice. Moved to Ohio and disappeared from the scout scene for about a decade. My son gets to first grade and comes home all excited about "this thing they call Cub Scouts Daddy!" I am back in with both feet!

I see that there are other KY eagles on here. Where are you guys from?

Shane Morris

Pack 189 Amanda Ohio

WOW... I am new here, but not new to scouting. Eagle scout with 15 years and counting. Over all for me its a 10. There are those nights when the boys (cubs) try my patience...those are 3's. Then are things like Philmont which are a solid 10+. There was the day my son came home from school with that sign-up sheet and asked with more enthusiasm than I had ever seen ask if he could be a cub scout...that was priceless. He didn't even know I had been in scouts.

Shane

WOW... I am new here, but not new to scouting. Eagle scout with 15 years and counting. Over all for me its a 10. There are those nights when the boys (cubs) try my patience...those are 3's. Then are things like Philmont which are a solid 10+. There was the day my son came home from school with that sign-up sheet and asked with more enthusiasm than I had ever seen ask if he could be a cub scout...that was priceless. He didn't even know I had been in scouts.

Shane

Here is how we handle our Derby:

Everyone gets a car display plaque with the Pack number and year on it.

We give medals to the 3 fastest in each rank and a plaque or trophy to the 3 fastest over all

We give medals to the 3 best designs

and a best car trophy for the the car that most looks like it was built by a boy (not my favorite award, but my CM insists on this one.

We do give out some certificates that are made up on the spot. They are for cars that deserve SOMETHING, but didn't win one of the other awards.

There is nothing at all wrong with giving something for participation. Its not an award though, and shouldn't be treated as such.

Shane

(This message has been edited by Sylvar)