SWScouter

Hmm, I'm having a lot of trouble following Ed's leap to training isn't important from Bob White's assertion that attitude has a greater influence than aptitude.

Here I agree with Bob White. If someone has a bad attitude they probably aren't going to do a good job (provide a strong program) whether or not they are capable (have the aptitude).

SWScouter

Last night, before bed, my wife was watching House Hunters on HGTV. I walked in the room when an add came on for I think, some Realter organization. Anyway, the add showcased a member that is a Scoutmaster and how big of an impact he has had on the boys in the troop and community.

At first I thought it was an add for the BSA. There were a lot of scenes showing the troop in action and the Scoutmaster doing scouting stuff. All were in their uniforms doing real scout stuff. It was one of those, "our members care for the community" ads and was really nice to see, especially with the scouting bent. Have any of you seen this add yet?

SWScouter

The VIP for the weekend was the OA National Chief Pat Murphy.

When I sealed my membership in the OA a few years back, Patrick Murphy was the chief principle in the Brotherhood ceremony. Shortly thereafter, I was able to have a short conversation with him at the section conclave. The few times I have talked with him left me with the impression that he is one of those people that you can just tell is going to become someone special. I was very pleased for him when I heard be was elected National Chief.

SWScouter

Hi Flamingeye. I don't know about you but after hitching up here, I'm in stitches and my stomach is in knots. I think I'll go hang somewhere else...

Welcome,

SWScouter

The Grand Canyon Council has some resources for Scoutmaster Conference, BOR, and the Advancement Chairman. Some of it is taylored specific to the council and some people here may disagree with parts of it, but I think it is a good start. The three articles can be found at http://www.grandcanyonbsa.org/Su508advancprocess.php?Cat_IDz=21

SWScouter

Hi Rob,

Welcome to this campfire. You should get some good food for thought here though sometimes a log rolls and ashes get mixed in the sauce.

I think you may really like AZ. I moved to Phoenix from Seattle close to 23 years ago. I do like it here but there will always be something special about the Pacific Northwest to me. As Eamonn said, the lighting here is great. One time driving across NW AZ the whole sky was pink from the painted desert reflecting off the thin clouds. It was truly beautiful.

AZ has quite a diverse ecology. There are mountains and deserts and everything in between. The largest stand of Ponderosa Pine in the world stretches across the rim country into New Mexico. There is quite a variety of big game to hunt: White tail deer, Mule deer, Rocky Mt. Elk, Mt. Lion, Big Horn Sheep, Bison, Javelina, and Black Bear. There is a lot of small game too, e.g., fox, coyote, turkey. Let's not forget the great trout fishing in the White Mts. and on and on. There is great camping and hiking here for the scouts.

There are two councils in AZ, Tucson and it's surrounding area is served by Catalina Council (http://www.catalinacouncil.org/districts.html) and the rest of AZ is served by Grand Canyon Council (http://www.grandcanyonbsa.org/).

SWScouter

What's for dinner?

Meamemg, by Brotherhood testing do you mean some sort of exam to determine if an Ordeal member has met the five challenges of Brotherhood membership and that passing this exam is required to become a Brotherhood member? If so, I think banning this test is a good thing. The first four challenges are really a personal, internal thing for each member. The fifth is an evaluation and public statement of the candidates desire to seal membership in the Brotherhood. Who are we to tell an Ordeal member that they are not ready for this?

SWScouter

I still have the backpack I used as a scout in the '70s. It's an over 30 year old Wenzel, bright orange with blue pockets and cover. It's a great design, a good size and the pockets are just right. I used it last year taking my daughter on her first backpacking trip. The straps are on their last leg and the belt is really bad so I bought a new backpack this spring. I only looked at external frames; I really don't care for the internals. I ended up with a Kelty Tioga 5300. It's big, heavy and has their 50th anniversary suspension. It rides really nice and was great on our trip down the Grand Canyon last April. Other than that I really don't care for it. The pockets suck, there's only one that can hold a quart bottle and just barely. There's another one that's really long that I don't understand, maybe it's for packing a couple of bagets. With that funky frame style, there's no good way to attach the sleeping bag so it really needs to go in a compression bag and in the lower compartment. That leaves one big compartment for clothing, gear and food. What a waste of space. I'm tempted to buy new straps and belt. The BSA catalog has some. The Kelty sure rides nice though...

SWScouter(This message has been edited by SWScouter)

SeattlePioneer,

I don't buy your argument and think it's specious at best. The example is not a swimming activity where SSD needs to be followed; it is a rescue. What does need to be followed is proper lifesaving techniques. Reach, Throw, Row, and Go. Which of the four should be followed and how is what the concern should be in order to safely rescue the drowning swimmer.

SWScouter

I assume that there is a distinction between troop positions and patrol positions and that is why there is both points 10 & 12. That would also imply that point 11 is troop positions, not all PORs. I would also think that each patrol can decide its own PL election schedule.

SWScouter

I agree with EagleInKY in that the Quality Unit award can be used as a benchmark, so to speak, to improve a units program. A unit's leadership should look at the QU award objectives and strive to meet as many of them as possible. The more that are met, the better the program that can be offered to the boys. Think of it this way, how can a unit offer a good scouting program if it can't meet the QU objectives? Note that the converse is not true, i.e., meeting the QU objectives does not ensure a good scouting program is being offered.

I view the Scouter knots the same way (especially the cub scout leader knots). How can a den leader offer a good den program if that leader doesn't meet the requirements for earning the den leader award?

SWScouter

Wow, I'm surprised that the most important rules of the BSA have yet to be listed. They can be found in the Uniform and Insignia Guide. It contains all the pertinent information about scout socks and other such details.

SWScouter

One more time. The church is the chartering organization for both a pack and a troop. There is no "official COR," each unit has its own COR. This may not be normal or even correct but it is the way it is.

SWScouter

A lot of us seem intent on ranking crimes. Now, I'm sure, some crimes are more heinous than others, even when the same law is broken. But, as BW says, a crime is a crime.

If we must talk about ranking crimes, I think it would be more appropriate to actually talk about the consequences for committing a particular crime. What is an appropriate sentence for a particular crime. There are laws that state how certain crimes are punished and the punishments vary depending on the circumstances of the crime.

Isn't that what many of us have really been discussing anyway. What should the consequences for not wearing scout socks with the uniform compared to the consequences of ignoring two deep leadership with SM conferences be?

SWScouter

In my last post, I wrote, "Both are registered by the church." I meant both units are chartered by the church.

SWScouter

Like I said, I can't say how it happened. Whether it was a mistake or not, there is a different COR for the pack and the troop. Both are registered by the church and the pastor is the one who signs the charters.

SWScouter

Well, I'm registered to a pack that is chartered by a Catholic church. The church also charters a troop. The pack and the troop each have their own COR. How this happened, I can't say, I just know that that is the way it is.

SWScouter

For my diversity ticket item, I did something like what Orennoah suggests. I'm currently a Webelos Den Leader for a pack chartered by a Catholic Parish. Traditionally, recruiting is accomplished by handing out flyers to the Parish school's boys for the Fall school night. Membership in the pack is predominately Catholic since most of the children attending the school are Catholic. What I did was to go to several of the nearby public schools and handout flyers for school night. Things didn't go as well as I would have liked because the school district had a ban on flyers so only two of the five schools distributed them. I also wanted to do a door to door campaign but the COR did not allow it. On top of that, I helped out with the school night and created a DVD picture show of a lot of the things the den has done over the last few years.

In a nutshell, the diversity ticket item was to increase the area of recruiting in order to increase the diversity of the pack.

Diversity is quite a broad area. There is a huge number of approaches your diversity item can take. I like to think of it as a way to increase the scope of something within your vision for scouting. Don't think of it as the dreaded diversity item, but as a way to expand or maximize the reach of your vision for scouting.

Enjoy the rest of your woodbadge experience!

SWScouter

Okay, from the 2003 edition of the Cub Scout Webelos Handbook, p. 62: The Arrow of Light Award displays a universal symbol for the sun and, below it, an arrow. The seven rays of the sun stand for each day of the week. They remind you to do your best every day as you follow the arrow that leads to Boy Scouting.

SWScouter

Look in the Webelos book, it explains what the Arrow of Light means. There are seven rays, one for each day of the week as a reminder to do your best every day of the week or something like that. Sorry, I don't have access to the book right now but I did read it a week or so ago.

SWScouter

Well, I really meant to shed a few pounds from their waist line, not waste line. I suppose losing a few from either (or both) would help

Don't laugh Dug, that's been done.

Why get so hung up on the weight of a pocket knife? I've heard of people being so anal about weight that they carry a shortened pencil and just a couple of sheets of paper for a journal. If a person is so worried about a couple of grams then they ought to stay home, or better yet, just lose a couple of pounds off their waste line first.

One more thing. The activities need to be pack activities, den activities don't count.

I really don't know why they would be giving gifts like that to the boys. First, any extra funds can certainly be used the following year. If they need to use the money, they could have given the boys their Wolf book or neckerchief or helped fund summer camp.

For the den I work with, we collect $5 per month in dues for nine months. We rotate snacks between the parents, snacks don't affect the den budget. The boys had $45 dollars in dues yet they are getting $75 from the den for the summer camp. The boys made money here. Next year is their last year as cub scouts. We will need to use all the money up. I don't see that as a problem, extra money can go towards a pizza party or to buy the Boy Scout handbook and maybe a gift for the pack or the chartering organization.

SWScouter