SueM

I feel your pride and joy sister!!! I know we discussed how long it takes to make this kind of "progress" in making the change from an adult to boy led troop in another thread in the recent past and I am experiencing a similar thing in my own troop too and it's a wonderous thing to behold!!

When I took over as Scoutmaster in 10/04, I told the boys that my goal for them was to have them totally plan and execute -1- major event by themselves within a years time...well, I didn't quite make it in 12 months but now, at 14 months it's happening. Next week we will be doing our annual holiday nursing home visit. We have a very neglected local place with generally about 80 or so residents and the committee approves a budget so we can get them all some gifts...(generally small personal care items, writing paper,pens, etc) We started discussing it a month ago, I said "Ok..who is going to step up and take the lead on this???" and immediately one scout said "I will!!" and he has really taken charge of it...called and made the arrangements with the home, made a list of needs and wants of the residents, got a local greenhouse to donate 25 poinsetta's..set up a date to do the shopping...asked several boys to help him...they went and got everything on Saturday and the boys put together the gift bags as part of their meeting last night. Other boys who play musical instrument brought them and practiced holiday music. I have seen less effort put into -Eagle- projects then the boys have put into this!! I'm thinking that I'd like to get a special gift of some sort to "commemorate" the excellent job in showing leadership that this boys had done with this project...hoping that it will inspire other boys to step up the next time!!

The boys are also working on their holiday party plans and planning a ski trip in January or February all on their own! Can you tell that I'm a proud of my boys????

Sue M.

Mark,

#10 comes closest to what I would state as a reason...It is so much easier to provide a good program when you don't have to explain everything to other adults..or watch over their shoulders everytime they're with you at an outing to make sure that they are not doing things that are either unsafe or not allowed!! It's hard enough sometimes to keep track of what the -boys- are doing, let alone untrained adults!! When all the leaders are pretty much on the same page, they all know what the issues are and how to deal with them both effectively and correctly.

OMG..I'm reacting as a parent and also a Scoutmaster, but this seems terribly wrong!! As a Scoutmaster, my FIRST duty is to train Jr. leaders, to do their job. If I see they aren't performing, then I should have a discussion with them again about the expectation of their leadership role and find out why they are not doing what they should and give them not only the chance to try again, but the tools they need to do the job better. If they still are not doing their job, then it should be up to their patrol to replace him, though I think the SM can point out "weaknesses" they really shouldn't "force" the patrols to vote any way. I can't figure any senario where I would -force- a boy into a Venture Patrol though...and to have his Eagle Proposal for 7 weeks???? Something is -seriously- wrong here!! I might be tempted to talk to not only your district people but you Chartered Organization about these issues...it sounds like a Scoutmaster on a power trip to me!!

Sue M.

Mark,

What is their main "issue" with taking training?? Is it time conflicts?? Don't want to pay for it/spend the time doing it/don't see the point? I assume from your statement that you've reminded them that every boy -deserves- a trained leader??

Anyway..I would start by telling any new leaders who come in that training is an -expectation- rather than an option...though you can't force them, if they come in with the feeling that this is something that is expected to run a good program, then IMO, they're more likely to go and do the training. Most councils are more than willing to provide them with lots of options for training..whether it's saturday's or at Roundtable or even coming to the Pack/troop to offer it at their convenience...If you have to...make them feel guilty about not being trained!!

Kurt,

Don't hesitate...DO it! This is exactly where you want to jump into things and get a solid base to build on. I think that everyone feels in the beginning that you are "not ready yet" but don't worry about that, you are more ready than you actually think you are, and you are exactly what is needed/wanted for the Cub Scout side..a Wood Badger who has several years still to contribute to the Pack! Be aware that you will need to take the Cub Scout training before you can go to Wood Badge..that is, if you are registered as a committee member, you need to go through New Leader Essential and the Cub Scout Committee Challenge (or what ever is appropriate for your registered position) and that when you design your ticket, that your goal should be designed around that position within the pack, so start looking around and see what you would like to improve/contribute to the betterment of you pack and DO IT!!! If the cost is a factor, check with your local council and see if you have a WB Association who can help with the fee..I can't say it enough times though...DO IT..DO IT...DO IT!!! (and incidentally..it'll be the most fun that you will ever have as an adult scouter!!)

Sue M.

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I will echo everything that Eagle-Pete had to say...don't hesitate!! DO IT!! It is training that you can apply to ANYTHING that you do in life..not just Scouting! You will find it useful even in your everyday job! It teaches you how to deal with other people in more effective ways to get things done and how to both set goals (both personal and Scouting wise) and how to go about achieving those goals. For me, it was about gaining the self confidence I needed so that I was neither afraid to step up and use my few talents in a more positive way..nor was I any longer afraid to fail and start over if necessary to achieve my goals. It's also about recognizing the various talents in other people and giving THEM the encouragement that THEY need to acheive too! You are in a unique position right now if you take the course.

One of the main issue that I hear from our District Training Coordinator (who is also our Wood Badge Association president) is that most Cub Scouters who come through the program never get a real chance to USE the training in the Cub Scouting program because by the time they take it, their sons are usually Webelos and so they move on to the troop level with their expertise..great for troops, but it leaves Cub Scouts lacking. So, if you have another son just starting out in Cubs..you will have time to leave a legacy there!! Again...Do Not hesitate...it'll be one of the most memorable experiences that you'll ever have as an adult in Scouting...and if your lucky, you'll even get to be a BEAVER!!

PS..you get to learn the Gilwell song too!

Sue M.

I used to be a Beaver

(This message has been edited by SueM)

4144 now...

I have in my troop, a boy who has physical issues, including a rod in his back, who is only needing the BSA swim requirment to advance to first class..I have asked the parents to get a physican's recommendation (for a possible disability waiver) as to his future capabilities IRT swimming...what suggestions can you all give me on how to help this boy advance?? I'm not sure if the boy is capable of doing the alternate badges either, but he's a great kid..enthusiastic and trying his hardest to succeed!

sue m.

The responsibility for BoR's is supposed to be left to committee members, however many troops including my own, those lines are often crosses. Many adults who are registered as committee members actually do act more as ASM's and some who are registered as ASM's often do committee work...this is especially true I think of troops who have a limited amount of adult help!! We have had adult ASM's sit on BoR if no other CM's were available...but we have been making an effort to try and limit that as much as we can. My feeling is that you do the best that you can with what you have available.

Sue M.

I echo the "DON'T WAIT 3 YEARS" sentiment!! Make plans to take it next fall..you will not regret the decision! It will help you learn how you can both help the troop and make a lasting difference. You will also find that the training will carry over into your every day life too! Don't wait!!

Sue M.

Our troop does the official flag retirement ceremony for the city every year on Flag Day.

We also help our Charter Org. place flags on the graves at the new Veteran's cemetery for Memorial Day & Veterans Day.

We do a holiday visit at a very neglected nursing home

We also prepare and serve a meal at the Salvation Army soup kitchen.

on top of t

If you can get a copy of Mark Ray's book "The Scoutmasters Other Handbook" [which is about $8 and can usually be found at your Trading Post] this is an excellent resource for suitable questions for every rank, including Eagle. There is also lots of other useful information in it. I also use it many times when I'm doing a SM Conference too, just to refresh myself of what is suitable to ask.

Sue M.

>The biggest ray of hope is the spirited, eager group of >new Scouts. With some guidance, I have high hopes that >in a few years they will be able to lead the troop as >it should be.

It has been my experience that this is the absolute truth!! This is exactly what has started to turn my troop around. My NSP from last year had all come though the pack together (with the exception of one) and they came in ready, willing and excited to be scouts! The father of the other boy also came in with a decided interest in being the NSP Guide so I gave him free rein. These boys began functioning as a patrol within 2 weeks time and after several months of watching what they were doing, the older boys started to try to imitate what they were seeing! The older boys never had that kind of example to learn from previously so it was kind of neat! Some of my ASM's wanted me to start reorganizing the NSP in with the others and I refuse to do it..I've see what happened the last time we did that..boys could never bond with their new patrols and were continually trying to do things with their old one. The NSP is doing great, so why mess that up? If it ain't broke..why try and fix it?

sue m.

gwd-scouter,

>I sometimes ask myself "why am I doing this? If the >Scouts aren't interested, why should I be?" Then, the >boys will make a small step of progress and I figure, >that's what it's all about.

Believe me...the number of times I have asked -myself- (or my own mentor!) this same question are too many times to count!! But the answer I always got and now try to keep in mind everytime I start to wonder again is "Remember..you are doing it -for the boys-!" If you can make a difference in ONE boys' life, it's worth it in the end!!

Sue M.

Not an issue EagleinKY..sometimes I have a hard time being clear in what I'm trying to say.

I also have an issue with the way the cookie dough is being handled..I know that selling cookie dough is supposedly a big money maker in some areas..you see the stuff advertised in the Scouting magazine all the time, but I get the impression that this is not that commercially made stuff but rather a home mademix?? I could see a real liability issue with this for the troop.

sue m.

EagleinKY,

I only meant that IF (hypothetically) this were being done as an Eagle project (and there was no indication that it was) then fundraising would not be allowed beyond what was needed for materials.

Sue M.

I assume this is not an Eagle project??...as earning money even to give to a charity is prohibited.

At anyrate, not that it is implied that they are doing so, but more as a reminder.. boys should also not wear their uniform while selling the cookie dough...(This message has been edited by SueM)

Is there hope??? Yes! But don't expect it to happen overnight!! You mention this only from your own POV...How do the other ASM's feel about the situation?? It sounds like you might need to have a discussion with the SM!! At the very least look for other opportunities to start encouraging the boys to start thinking and making decisions for themselves.

I took over as the Scoutmaster for a very similar troop a year ago and we are JUST starting to get to the point where the boys are starting to "get it"!!! For the first few months after I took over, it was tough! I came to the conclusion though very quickly that if I saw -1- positive step during every meeting, I was happy!!! I told them from the start that my vision for the troop was to get it back to being a BLT and that my goal for the first year was to have them plan and execute -1- major event! We didn't quite make it within the year...but that's ok..it is within sight and I am satisfied with their progress!! I still have to remind both myself and my ASM's to back off stepping in to quickly to solve problems. To paraphase B-P "a man (or in my case a woman!) should never do anything that a boy can do"...I try to keep that in mind!

Good luck..stay positive!!

SueM

I think it's part of the course...we played it as did the course before mine.

sue

Jon,

Could it be that your brother is saying that he doesn't like scouts because it puts him in a highly social situation that he can't deal with? My daughter just about freaks out if she is in a crowd, but that is partially because she was continually harrassed while she was in school. If we go to church and she gets sandwiched inbetween people she'll panic!

Another thing that bothers many Asperger's kids are sounds...they are hypersensitive to them and will often hear things that other people don't notice in the background noise of life. With my daughter, she could pick up the sound of someone cracking their knuckles across a noisy crowded room and things like someone tapping a pencil on the desk will make her go balistic! Could the issue with your brother and haircuts be that he can't tolerate the sound of the sissors cutting his hair???

I agree with what Kenk said about it being so difficult to try and explain the behaviors of these kids to other adults(and kids too!!). I've had people tell me that it's just used as "an excuse" for being rude, etc. and I totally commend you for not only trying to help your brother cope, but for being a real friend to him! AS's can be very trying to live with for sure..but they really do need people who they can trust.

Sue M.

(This message has been edited by SueM)

I think that most teenagers go through a "questioning" phase where faith is concerned. I also think that most of them who -say- they don't believe in a higher being etc. actual do believe more than they THINK (or will admit that) they do. I also wonder the same thing that Ed does..had he just found this as an easy "button to push" as a way to get out of doing something that he really has no interest in doing in his heart.

Perhaps a discussion could be approached during the SM conference in the way of "what examples of showing Duty to God can you tell me about?".

Sue M.

This is JMO, but if you have as strong of Jr. Leadership as you say, then it should be up to them to address this issue.

sue m.

What I don't understand is why is "active" spelled out in the lower ranks where they much attend 5 activities (Per rank) outside of meetings to go up in rank, but then all of a sudden that changes at star??

sue m.

I agree that you should talk to the church leaders and find out why or even IF there is some real objection to having the scout wear the uniform. If there is a misunderstanding from the parents POV, then perhaps they could also talk to the parents then and straighten it out.

sue m.

Seattle Pioneer,

First, let me preface this by saying that I am the mother of an Asperger's daughter and I totally understand how exasperating it is to deal with them! So I'm trying to address this from both my experience as a mother of one, and also as a Scoutmaster.

I would highly suggest that you find a different POR for your Asperger's scout, one which doesn't put him out in front of the crowd unless it is something that he himself shows an interest in doing. Try something like the troop Librarian, where he can work by himself. Most Asperger's kids have a very narrow range of interests, but when they do zero in on something, it's almost an obsession. One of main characteristics of Asperger's Syndrome revolves around social inability..they can not read or relate to other people. I would also NOT try to force this boy to look you in the eye when you are talking to him...it can actually be painful for them to do that. This boy is not doing these thing deliberately...his brain is wired differently than normal. Believe me though, you are not wasting your time with him. Many of these kids are so alone in life, that even just providing him the opportunity to fit in in ANY group can often mean all the difference in the world to them..in some cases, feeling accepted -anywhere- can mean the difference between life and death to them!! They want to make a contribution in life. If you would like to understand how to better motivate this scout, I would suggest that you try and learn more about Asperger's...there are many wonderful resources on the internet and sites like wrongplanet.net where you can read things that Asperger's write about themselves and how and what they feel.

We as adults are usually involved in scouting because we want to make a difference in the lives of boys..and you have a wonderful opportunity to make a real difference in one life here! It will be tough but it's worth the effort!

Sue M.