Scoutndad

OGE - If not for fear of legal reprisals and judgements, why would you have presented your question? Regardless of your experience in whatever professional, vocational or practical forum, I do not believe your question had any merit or relevancy in this forum without qualifying your concerns further. This is going to be a long thread so, believe it or not, I am still interested in how you feel the CO's liability aspect would be affected by the acceptance of homosexuals and agnostics in to the BSA?

Great point NJ...sounds very cohesive. I still like the idea of the "hypothetical" news flash!

Well, what started out as a good question, quickly digressed into OGE's "liability" issue... OGE - When the Catholic church has many allegations and CONVICTIONS of molestation and child abuse, how can you even bring up that ANY organization is exonerated from the liability of sexual abuse. And more importantly, how does your question relate to this thread? Are you homophobic, an atheist or a combination? (this is dramatized to make the point and should not be answered) but to stereotype religion or sexual orientation as a lead in to your question, certainly sounds startling to me and n

I would also continue on with scouting... The purple knots, along with other badges and emblems are earned. Nothing would change in that regard. However, I do believe that allowing both groups access to the scouts should not fundamentally change the purpose behind the requirements. I think that you should be able to understand faith, without making faith a requirement. Doing this might open the doors (and eyes) to those scouts that have no understanding of a higher power and will challenge them to decide and enter discussions with scouts on why believing in God (or a deity) is a good

Great reply BW and would have expected nothing less due to the constitution and its freedom speech protection. But you lost me when you say the BSA upholds the constitution...it doesn't come close and it shouldn't...the BSA is a private organization with its own direction and bylaws. BSA continues to rightfully defend these directives in court with a reasonable amount of success using the constitution to defend their position as the BSA provides which otherwise would be prime ACLU territory. I don't have to like it, but I believe BW has a point and that is, "don't let the door hit ya

Are you contradicting yourself EL? How do you not share your religious beliefs with your son(s) when the first posting you had under this forum clearly indicated that you spoke with them about their religious beliefs and "wiggled" through the faith requirements? The boys I know are curious by nature and ask repeated questions. How did you keep YOUR views out of all that you have done? Part of the Webelos optional faith requirements under section 8 describes visiting a church, synagogue (sp?) etc...this may be the best time to do this and begin understanding that there are other beliefs

There are some definite hard line beliefs on BSA out there that scare me, but overall, by penalizing volunteers because of their beliefs is contrary to any Judea Christian teachings out there that advocate ministry. Which now leads me full circle to this faith question...not sure how many of you have read The Good Book? I don't profess to knowing too many scriptures by heart, but my faith is directed by my religion, and my actions founded upon the values instilled upon me by my parents and friends, predicated on the teachings within the Bible. I would agree that we don't have to "lik

EL - I could not have summed it up any better... My views to the family that have different beliefs will not change... My agnostic parent also recites the Pledge, bows their head at scout led prayers and never makes an issue of their belief. So now what do we do...you probably have seen the other thread I started as Faith in Scouting. Turn the proverbial blind eye...kick out all the self proclaimed atheists and atheistic agnostics? (The preceding question was rhetorical in nature and should not have a reply). This is a tough topic and I give credit to anyone who is a BSA lead

I completely understand your point on authority and directives. We are leaders, not the BSA police. I also share your viewpoint on informing the leader (or parents of a scout) about the BSA guidleines and allow them the courtesy of reaching their own conclusion. I alos concur with you that theistic agnosticism still fulfills the faith portion, however atheistic agnosticism and atheists need to be reminded (not singled out) that the pack/troop they belong to (or are joining), have fundamentals based on faith. Still a tough call defining this until the scout needs to fulfill a re

Excellent responses... I still need to question what do you do with the leader/parent that is an atheist agnostic or atheist? They do not meet the requirments (and yes your presumption is correct, this is all played out after the form is signed) now what.... To say that they can no longer be part of the scouts will certainly bring up discussion with the remaining families of the Pack/Troop and while it may not have a negative impact, this will certainly cause a distraction among the boys and families. I don't think everyone including myself as a leader and parent would promote t

This is great...thank you for speaking up EagerLeader... As I mentioned in another forum topic, I'm not sure each Pack reviews and advises the parents or scouts on what they are signing at the beginning. I do think that there was a great approach suggested and would like to implement into our Pack. However, EagerLeader has a not too surprising view point shared by more people as they enter scouting. These views are fought in court and are not easily answered in these forums. I am a practicing Catholic and while my forum as Agnostic Parent kept growing, I continued to do my homework on the

In reading the Cub Scout handbook (any den), it becomes apparent that faith is a large part of scouting. Many of you are saying, "that's an understatement"... However, for many of us who were not involved with scouts growing up, parents and boys became members of our local cub scout pack for reasons other than faith (cool camping and hikes and real "guy" stuff). As the boys progress up the ranks, the "faith" requirement becomes more and more prevalent. Oh sure, we acknowledge our faith everytime we recite the Pledge of Allegiance at our meetings, stand and salute as the National Anthem i

Maybe I will do a spin off this week for this issue... Vicki...we have a real tough time in our area with the local troops... Although it is a two way street, the local troops have not made themselves known or actively participate in events with (or invited to) our Cub Scout Pack. Since I am the Webelos I (soon to be II) leader, I will make sure and hunt down the troops and try and get my scouts involved so they can not only fulfill their requirements, but see how their attitude, aptitude and faith is part of everyday scouting. To answer your question more directly, the boy is

Obviously we don't have to like it in order for it to make sense... Wonder what the council is going to do with the $19.4 - that's were you should direct your question. Get involved with the council...it was a close vote and who knows how your experience could have influenced the outcome...go get em ES

Being new to the Scouter forum, I understand how things get missed in long threads. FB needed to go back and start from the first thread to understand that this was not about respecting the families religious beliefs as much as it was not being able to interview the scout to see how his faith or absence thereof, affected his advancement as a cub scout. While FB is certainly right about respecting other families beliefs, my main concern was just to speak with the scout. TO ALL: THE INTERVIEW WENT WELL. MOM LET DAD PARTICIPATE IN THE INTERVIEW YESTERDAY AND WHILE I CAN NOT FULLY UNDERSTAN

Yep..it was sold to a developer but some of it was sold off to Camp Gerber adjacent to their property. Unfortunately, Gerber could not raise the funds to purchase in time... here is the local article - Banker to buy Boy Scout land near Whitehall Macatawa Bank founder finalizing $19.4 million deal for 4,700 acres By PATRICK REVERE Staff writer The founder and CEO of Macatawa Bank is finalizing a deal with the Chicago Boy Scouts council to purchase 4,700 acres of forest land near Whitehall, about 12 miles northeast of Muskegon. Benjamin A. Smith, who also operates S

packsaddle... u r scaring me man...

now i think ES is on to something with the finger thing...lol by the way, 12 years of combined training in 4 styles has also been a positive influence in my life - only one fight and I deserved every stitch that I got! but it all gets put into perspective when you are the parent and your child is in spiders position - a very difficult time indeed...

Then to reinforce the position I stated, work together as a family and if necessary, incorporate the proper tools which would include any books, videos or counseling necessary to establish the best behavior for the child. Bullys are created.. Warriors are trained.. Establishing the correct behavior pattern is essential to defining the difference through any medium that is effective.

Yikes...what a forum...martial arts...biblical references...Columbine This should have stopped after Bob Whites original reply. No amount of martial arts or parental involvement (or lack thereof) is going to resolve a situation that has manifested for so long. As a one time wimp, then a bully(over corrected), if nothing more, take the appropriate measures to resolve the immediate situation and take your child out of harms way first THEN work on, as a family (and may I suggest professional counseling) the resolution of the bully. As many contributors pointed out, there are m

I don't mind keeping my forum topic up, but I think NJ has a great idea... Spin a new thread under Issues and Politics since there is more I would like to hear about over and above my original topic that would have a better forum...we need to label it Faith in Scouting You bring up a great point about the application while Vicki has a great and unique perspective on agnosticism.

The horse aint gettin any deader by beatin it... As the full thread of comments and opinion shows, it is absolutely a lenient process where the interview is not an interrogation. Advancing my boys for the past 4 years has been "trial under fire" however as has been stated and restated, the DL is the guide (as Fscouter mentioned) but is also obligated to their post regardless of circumstances. Any deviation from those responsibilities is not only a liability to the leader, but to the scout, the den, the pack, the council, the bsa and Powell himself. My struggle was predicated on how l

Point taken Greg and if you read through all of my replies, I think that you will come to the assumption that I am a spiritual person and struggled with the point you are making. Now take in to account that the mother is agnostic, the father was raised christian - the spiritual awareness of the scout is not up to a cub scout leader but to the parents/guardian. It was made apparent to me that the most harm that would have been caused, was the lack of action on my part to uphold the requirements of the badge. Something new...I offered my assistance to this family mid 2004 in effor

Thanks BW - Let's see if the parents agree with your observation...

Not sure of your point packsaddle... As a leader, we need to make informed decisions regarding the scouts we advance. Being judgemental is human nature and that is the reason that having the parents attend our participate in the interviews should be part of the advancement. The parents should not answer for the scout, but it allows the leader to become more aware of their duty to the scout, pack and council. Understanding the application has the necessary nomenclature for all to read, I hardly think that it is the best tool to use as a general approval on faith issues. I do agre