scoutmom

After following Goodkidsmom's posts in the Working with Kids forum, I'm wondering when do you make the decision to move to another Troop.

It seems like a simple question, but it's really very complicated. There have been a ton of changes my son's Troop since the beginning of the year. Some for the better, but not all. I find some of the new leadership to be intolerable. They have no respect for new people to the Troop, regardless of their Scouting experience and they have even less respect for women in Scouting.

I am currently on the outs with most of the leadership (both program and committee) because I open my mouth when they are doing something that violates BSA policy. Because of this, I am concerned about my son's treatment in this Troop. I have watched these same leaders single out a Scout who's parents also spoke up when things weren't right. My son has not been mis-treated - yet - but I am concerned.

I have been talking with my son about the Troop. He is not happy with all of the recent changes, nor with the current leadership. He describes it as lots more yelling and a lot less understanding. He's not ready to make a move because he doesn't want to leave his friends. I want him to "own" his Scouting activities. It needs to be his. So, I don't really want to force him to change if he doesn't want to. And I don't want to sit back and watch him be singled out because his mother has a big mouth.

Any advice?

A Fluffanutter is good, but you have to add bananas.

One of my favorite things is "Goober and Grape" which is peanut butter and jelly all in the same jar. I don't remember who makes it, but I like it. The only problem is that it's not chunky PB.

In the immortal words of Raffi:

A Peanut Butter sandwich made with jam

One for me and one for David Amram

a peanut butter sandwich made with jam

Stick stick stick stick stick

I've known wiches good and bad

But the best wich that I've ever had

Was a peanut butter sandwich made with jam

Yum yum yum yum yum

(I think there's another verse, but I can't remember it.)

I'm here to take the pledge, too OneHour

I, Scoutmom, promise to keep my few postings on this forum to the ideals of helping and learning from other scouts and scouters and nothing else. I apologize to everyone whom I may have accidentally insulted, inflamed, or otherwise upset.

Bravo, OGE. I second that.

I love the look on a boy's face when he's doing something he never thought he would - like one of my Bear CUb Scouts when we went horseback riding.

I love facilitating training courses or serving on staff and watching new leaders go back to their units with a new confidence and excitement for the Scouting program.

My son's troop is going through some transitions right now and I'm not exactly happy with what is happening. I love the support I have received from my fellow Scouters in the district and council. These people have the BOYS best interests in mind and truly care about what is happening in the units. They are willing to step in as soon as I say the word. It's nice to know I have their respect, even if I don't have the respect of some of the leaders who wear the same unit numerals on their uniform as I do.

I have to say I'm with SR540 on this one -- it's got to be chunky.

Wow, I didn't even know I was a Senior Forum Member! So much for knowing everything!

No, I don't know everything. I don't claim to know everything. In fact one of the great pleasures in my life is learning new stuff. (trying to convince my son that learning is fun is a chore sometimes)

The thing that gets to me is when people assume, for whatever reason, that I don't know anything. I have been active in Scouting for 6 years, with 4 of those years serving on the District Training Team and serving as District Training Chair for the past year. Was awarded the District Award of Merit. No, I don't know everything, but I do know a lot. And I know how to use the resources at my diaposal to find the information that I haven't kept filed in my limited memory.

Unfortunately, I have met a number of Scouters who have been active much longer than I have and they seem to have forgotten everything they ever learned about Scouting. Think I could get them to come to training again?

Am I missing something? What's the big deal about filling out another application? It seems simple enough to me.

Our Council recently updated the Merit Badge Counselor list and asked MB Counselors to fill out new applications. It seems the reactions here reflect what went on for us.

Again, what's the big deal?

Please don't take offense at what I am about to say, i truly mean none...

I may not be the best person to explain the "point of being and Eagle" but what I can tell you is that the point of being an Eagle is NOT to help you obtain employment, get into a better college, or anything else like that. Those are good things that happen to Eagle Scouts - simply because they obtained the Rank of Eagle? Maybe, maybe not. If you became an Eagel Scout just so you could get a better job, I think you missed the point entirely.

The thought I had on this one is to see if you can have your son's physician or mental health professional (who ever is responsible for treating the depression) speak with the SM. Perhaps some insight from a professional regarding how best to understand and work with a child with your son's condition might be helpful. A little education never hurt anyone, and who knows how many other kids might benefit from your SM learning some new methods of handling boys with a variety of needs.

It is my understanding that the CC, to use your term, "serves at the pleasure" of the Chartered Org. It is up to the CO and the COR to approve and/or replace a CC. Can't quote you chapter and verse on that, but I'm sure others here will.

You posted a beautiful tribute to your Mother. Our condolences and prayers are with you.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to you, your Troop and the young man's family and friends.

Korea,

LOL!!! That's great. I love the committee chair!

Eamonn,

I can't speak to all the questions you pose, but I believe in Scouting, Mom's who want to be active with their sons scouting and who speak up when they feel something is wrong are labeled "pushy" because they are intruding on a male dominated area. Some men in Scouting (not all) feel that it is their domain and they are the only ones who know the "right" way to run a Scouting program.

There are a lot of knowledgable, well trained female Scouters who just happen to be the Mom's of Scouts. I happen to be one of them. The male leaders in my son's Troop DO NOT respect me or my knowledge, in spite of having received the District Award of Merit and holding a significant position on our District committee. Why? I have no idea. I don't want to run the program, but when I see something that is a direct violation of Scouting policy or the Aims and Methods of Scouting, I am going to bring it to their attention. If that makes me "pushy" , then I'm pushy. ---And proud of it, because me being pushy makes these leaders take a second look at what they are doing and hopefully will cause them to follow BSA policy more correctly.

Thanks for the input, everyone. Pretty much you have confirmed my conception of what a boy lead program should be. Given the attitudes regarding women in Scouting expressed by the Leaders I am dealing with, I have been very aware of my actions with the Scouts. I try very hard not to be "hovering" or overly protective - encouraging anyone who might ask me a question to "Ask you Patrol Leader" -- especially my son. I am very surprised with the current attitudes of "boys don't always know what is best for them". Well, ok, but lets try a little more of the coaching style as opposed to the directing style of leadership. We have an excellent young man as SPL and he is not being given a chance to implement HIS program. He is constantly being undermined by the adult leadership.

I am considering changing troops, but I have to consider my son's feelings on that subject. Right now, these things are not affecting him, but it is only a matter of time.

I know what I think it means, but apparently my son's Scoutmaster has a different definition.

I believe "boy run" means just that - the boys run things. They make the decisions, with guidance form the adult leaders, but they do the planning, etc. I believe we need to advise, but ultimately allow them to make mistakes and learn from them. It doesn't always make for the smoothest run program, but in the end it is still the boys who benefit from the experience.

This particular Scoutmaster seems to think we need to prevent the boys from making any mistakes. "Boys don't always know what is best for them" - a direct quote. I agree with this statement to an extent, however, I thought Scouting was a safe environment for boys to learn independece, leadership and other qualities. How will they learn if they are not permitted to experiment and try new ideas? I thought Scouting was supposed to be a safe place to stretch your limits and learn.

How do you interprit "boy run"?

Woodsmith,

I can sympathize, but my problem is the other way around. We have a SM who wants to tell the CC and committee how to do everything. I am trying my hardest to educate everyone on the committee about the "separation of powers", if you will, but I'm hitting a brick wall.

Hopefully, your CC will keep an open mind and listen to you. It is frustrating when you are dealing with someone who has been in Scouting for a long time and thinks their way is the best. It is also hard for them to let go of some of the control that they have. Good Luck.

All the information you need should be in the Annual Program Helps. You can purchase the book throught your Scout Shop or there should be an insert in your Scouting Magazine, depending on your registered position.

I thoroughly enjoyed my WOOD BADGE FOR THE 21ST CENTURY experience. I consider it well worth the money, if I get my beads, or not. I encourage everyone considering Wood Badge to go for it. ( and check with your council to see if they offer scholarships if money is a concern)

I have to agree with Eamonn and Bob White on this one. Your vision and mission statements are what will help you write your goals. Once you have you vision clear in your mind, the goals should just fall in line. Talk to your ticket counselor, or your Troop Guide. They're there to help you. And Eamonn's suggestion of reviewing the Twenty Questions is a good idea.

The program CAN work for a lazy boy. I don't believe anyone is "incurably" lazy - you just have to find their motivation - and guess what, that means YOU, the leader, has to try harder.

The program CAN work if parents don't help. The trick is getting them to help in small ways. Not all parents are going to volunteer to be your assistant, let alone, bring a snack or give another kid a ride to a den meetion. Break your jobs down into small pieces and you'll be surprised how much people are willing to do.

The program CAN work for an uncivil child. Again, it's work for the leader, but it can be done. CHaracter connections might help.

Part of what we are doing as Cub Scout leaders is teaching patriotism. I have yet to meet a young boy who wasn't willing to learn about our country or who wasn't excited about learning how to fold the flag and other information regarding flag care and it's significance to our country.

As Cub Scout Leaders we are to encourage a Scout to be reverent and to learn about and followin his faith. It's NOT our job to teach him his faith.

Yes, the BSA teachers leadership. It also teaches that the program is designed for AGE APPROPRIATE activities. We're talking Cub Scouts, right? Leadership for them is leading a flag salute, acting as a denner, leading a song, things like that. As they move up to Webelos it can progress and then when they move into Boy Scouts it progresses even further.

Scouting is not all things to all boys, but we sure as heck can try.

I believe that all boys are the boys Cub Scouting wants and needs. It is our job as leaders to try to motivate the lazy ones and inspire the uninspired. No, we're not going to connect with and retain every kid. But you keep trying and reaching out to all. You never know what you're going to come up with. It's pretty amazing to watch these kids as they grow, mature and develop their interests.

You bother because hopefully you love your children. I believe it sends a negative message (to the children)if a parent refuses to meet their obligation of child support regardless of the amount.

I will have nothing else to say on this matter. If you want to continue to debate, go right ahead.

Fat Old Guy,

I'm not surprised with your attitude, either. It is what I have come to expect. I never said anything about anyone going to the poor house. WHat I said was that this man has a obligation to his children. A reasonable judge or family mediator would award support based on a percentage of the non-custodial parent's income. Even if it is $5.00 a week, an obligation is an obligation.

Now, let's get back to the subject of this post, not my attitude, or your attitude. I think the COR and IH need to find out some more information by interviewing the candidate and possibly his children if they are in the troop.