red feather

gwd, if you have the scouts up to speed as a scout led troop and your leaders on board with a scout led troop then the transition could or should be almost with a bump.

Remember as a SM you are a Master of Scouts helping present the program that allows the scouts and scouters be scouts and scouters. The hardest part of our job.

Whether you stay on as ASM or visiting 'expert' should not matter. In the troop that I serve the outgoing SM usually becomes the CC, (a job that I will dodge with all my effort;) ) Train them and let them go on and when the time is right you should know it.

Good Luck and happy scouting

yis

red feather

Good luck with your rebuilding and hopes to all that they may be safe. Something came to mind that may help the troops there. Would it be possible to 'brother' up with a troop here stateside to help a troop down under recover from this disaster?

A scout is Helpful.

yis

red feather

The troop that I serve has a few young men who did not want, or have time for a COH. Two comes to mind where we threatened a 'drive by COH',award tied to a brick and tossed as we drove by, just kidding.

The award of one of these young men was held for 4 years and we contacted his parents and asked them if they would be willing to give it to him as a Christmas present in place of a COH. They thought that would be a great idea and that is how it was given to him. The other Eagle award for the second young man was presented to him the same way.

Responses from the families was it was a great idea and a special moment for the families.

Eagle presented is the way it should, family there. Birthdays are our second option in these cases.

Worked for us.

yis

red feather

Mike,

We have used Clif Wolds outfitters out of Ely for over 20 years and have had a great trip each time.

A note on the Triple Crown, Ookpik also counts as one of the three high adventures needed. The troop had 3 young gentlemen earn this award with Philmont, Sea Base, and Ookpik.

You seem to be at a point where you are transistioning from boy led to scout led. That is a marvelous thing, just have to learn how to go with the flow and make sure they do not burn the forest down.

Congratulations

yis

red feather

Sure is and it is a vital one in the troop that I serve. Good Troop Guides insure that a larger percentage of the NSP stays in scouting and gets the most that they can out of scouting.

yis

red feather

J-dawg,If you are looking for a different Troop home let me know!!! I would ask you and the older scouts with you to be Mentors with Troop Guide POR for the new scouts crossing over to the Troop that you serve. Your responsibiities would be to teach the NSP on how to be scouts with a one year commitment to get each of them to First

Class with the goal of the NSP or new scouts being the best the troop has ever seen.

Not as difficult as it looks at first glance. The input and presence of older scouts having an interest in new Boy Scouts carries over for many years. I would suggest that you present yourself and the older scouts, if they are willing, as mentors/teachers, with the future of the Troop that you and them serve as the goal that the new Scouts will be the best the Troop has ever seen.

The 'feel good' part of this accomlishment may surprise you.

yis

SM redfeather

Hope the fire is hot and the coffe good.

The troop that I serve has been planning a high adventure trip (backpacking) in Colo for this year. However, the pine beetle infestation has closed the area that had been planned for (fire hazard and ugly) by the National Forest Dept.. We are looking for suggestions for high adventure in Colorado outside of the pine beetle insfestation area for backpacking/ hiking of easy to moderate level.

Your suggestions will be passed on to the adventure group and as always will be greatly appreciated.

yis

red feather

thank you

Not sure what your 'scouting pedigree' is Lem. Your profile is blank and after reviewing your last posts not sure really where you are coming from.

Not sure how to respond to your post.

red feather

Lem Siddons wanttobe

yis

When I am asking 'Why do I put up with this' I watch this movie. The movie reminds me that one leader can make a difference in the lives of scouts (and other adults).

It reminds me that all it takes is a little dedication without expectation of compensation. The compensation is the day to day experience of what the scouts have learned. Which many of them will not realize for many years and with some luck will think back and know what was presented for them for their learning.

Forget todays rules about how we have to present scouting and look took what was given to the 'scouts' in this movie and how it impacted their 'lives'. That is what we all do as volunteer scouters and what someday, maybe, we will reap. We just have a differnt enviorment to work in.

Take a full troop of Whiteys anyday.

yis

red feather

Common sense. Commen sense, and a bit more commen sense. All fuels are dangerous if not used properly.

The troop that I serve have had cases where a propane tank malfunctioned and we lost some gear, we have had white gas stoves flame up and we lost some gear. Thankfully we had no other losses. Note this is over a 15 year period.

As a youth the troop that I was with burned off 55 plus acres when a wood fire got away in high winds. All fires are an issue that requires proper attention and apporiate responses when bad things happen.

Commen sense, commen sense.

yis

red feather

ps. If we do not teach the proper safety and use of these methods, where or how are the scouts to learn them.

sorry, pet peeve

Having bought the latest version of the WS MBP, and with only a quick perusal, it appears to be a 'dumbed' down of the 2001 MBP. (and those before 2001)

Asked several of our ASMs and older scouts what was wrong with the friction fire area of the MBP we cannot find much fault with it. The only comment from our scouts was that if the nylon cord had a low melting point it would not be much use. Please specify. Always looking to learn new things.

STOP is a viable first line of defence when lost or in a survival situation. Of course this can and should/would be modified to account for the emergency. To say that scouts whould follow the seven rules when a boat is sinking is, imho, a discredit to scouts and scouters who are capable of thinking.

Every survival situation has its variences and requirements. The purpose of a merit badge is to introduce the scout to the field of the badge not to make them an expert.

As a counselor and SM I do not recommend stainless steel knifes as they are hard to sharpen and not easily maintained. Part of our teaching process, eh? Every tool/item taken should have a dual purpose if at all possible. Takes time to learn these purposes and apply them.

LNT is to be observed in the training/learning process as stated in the MBP pg 26. When in a survival situation pg 26 indicates that LNT has second place to survival.

Layering is laid out starting on page 15 and 16 and "other materials" are listed on the same pages. I assume they are talking about the modern materials that we have all been using for the last twenty years. Kinda up to those teaching this area of experitse to expound on.

"STOP. Thnk THEN observe. Ready, fire; aim." When lost STOP comes into real play to help prevent the first reaction of the newly lost of panic. If observation has not been ongoing before getting lost that just compounds the issue. Once lost STOP is vital to prevent getting even more lost.

Yes the first aid portion of the MBP is lacking but in arguement could be said that these parts of survial would be covered in the First Aid MB. (differnt subject )The lack of the inclusion of the first aid from 2001 is in my opion an issue.

Keeping feet together, good idea but to choose keeping feet togethere and having an issue with the current or seperating the feet to avoid a problem would be a good thing. (personal experience). Ouch, but lived.

Depending on the age of the lost person, or the age of the one learing about what materials are flammable, a warning is approriate. Most dryer lint in not just cotton lint but also inclued, hair, hylon, wool, and other things that get caught inthe trap (do not know what they are but have not been able to identify them).

Is the new MBP not as good as the last one that I was using, have to agree there. Just makes my job as a WS counselor that more interesting.

Hope to have time to look into the other issues that you brought up in the near future.

sorry for the long post but been a long day

yis

red feather

Pull up a log and have a cup of joe and accept my apologies for not being fully up to date. I have been using the 2001 version of the pamphlet and as the last one on one counseling that I have done was mid year 2007. I had not realized that there is a newer version out.

Will be getting the newest one and reviewing it as soon as the scout office opens tommorow and will get back to you.

yis

red feather

As a WS merit badge counselor for some years now. Wilderness Survival is kinda a hobby for me and I take what I learn and teach very seriously.

The parts of the MBP that show incorrect clothing and questionable methods of surviving (as can be found in a lot of 'survival books') I use as teaching aids. After the scout has read the book and learned survival methods I ask them what is wrong with this picture or statement. When I get the answer from them a discussion of what they missed or what they saw or read is a 'teaching moment' that lets them start thinking.

Personally, fire starting, shelter, basic navigation, awareness, proper preparation, what to do when you get lost and water are the main topics that I have emphasis in.

Is the MBP perfect? No! But it is close and introduces the scout to the realm of wilderness survival and helps them start preparing for their own camping and life situations.

imho, a merit badge introduces a scout to the genre of that it covers and hopefully will provide a base for future investigation and learning.

Got Eagle in 68 (WS badge in 67) and still learning new ways and techniques of survival, and hope that the scouts that I have counseled have learned the basics to learn more.

Could the MBP be better? You bet! But it is not bad for a few pages pamphlet! As it is not Eagle required...who can tell what or when changes will be made(it should be Eagle required imho). As a counselor, I take my job as an assistant to learning very seriously.

Never been lost just mighty confused for awhile. Played solitaire and found myself looking over my shoulder for help with the cards.

yis

red feather

Welcome to the campfire, pull up a log and have a cup of mostly good joe.

Looking forward to your comments and questions. Lots of good advice and insights to be found here. Might want to start looking at past threads and go from there.

yis

red feather

The troop that I serve retires 15 to 20 flags a year with dignity and respect. One question that has arisen over the last few years is the retirement of nylon flags. The burning of nylon is not what is considered enviromentaly proper by many. Any alternatives out there?

yis

red feather

Ditto, the scouts come first.

yis

Red Feather

Ditto with the above posts. Having been been with numerous last minute Eagles your response is right one.

Some Eagles Fly some Eagles flap. Hopefully this young man will learn how to fly and give back to the troop that it has given him.

That is the charge that I would present to him.

yis

red feather

Ditto to much of all the above.

Besides I can't stand kids.

But I really enjoy scouting, scouts, and scouters and all that they let me do and learn.

How about you Mr. Boyce?

yis

Red Feather

Horizon, I like the concept of a 'go bag' as being part of what a scout has to be prepared and for that matter what a scouter brings to a meeting. The "Be Prepared" part and my favorite of 'personal responsibility' fits right in.

I took a look at the bag that I bring to each meeting and lo and behold all the items were in there. (kinda surprised me) Being a 'scout' is something that we all try to instill in each of the scouts in the troops that we serve and this is one more tool to enable the boys to learn this.

This concept will be brought up at our next PLC and we will see how it goes over. Thanks for the idea.

No additional requirements to any advancements. Just something that the troop that I serve will include as their personal equipment if approved by the PLC.

yis

Red Feather

Where's that tea pot? There it is,and,yes there is a tempest brewing!

Love the quotes aroung official. Kinda points out that what is "official" and what 'works'.

If a scout salutes the flag whether or not he is in the "official" uniform that is what we as scouters (imho) are shooting for. He is showing the respect and honor that the flag stands for. Some scouts cannot afford the full uniform and some can. The fact they feel that they should salute the flag and what it stands for is the goal.

In an ideal world all scouts and scouters will have the complete uniform as designated by national. That is not always the case. The salute and the recognition is the goal.

Recently at summer camp the troop that I serve had to evacuate well after midnight in response to a weather condition that could have been very dangerous. In the process of waking up the scouts, one of our second years, responded on waking up "Class A's or B's?". It really doesn't matter how we get to the goal but that we get there.

(The troop and scouts got through the evac and later in true scout fashin and all was well.)

The scouts will learn the 'proper' terminology as they progress through scouting. We just have to get the groundwork laid.

If the proper uniform is all we have to worry about in the troops that we serve then we should count ourselves very lucky.

Hope that toes have not stepped on by this post but the end goal is the target that I shoot for. Sometimes the path is not easy walking but that path is what is there and has to be taken.

yis

red feather

Age is creeping up when the grandson of the SM that you were ASM for joins the troop when you are SM. And you and the past SM are the same age.

And when the scouts when told how old you are respond "Wow!"

yis

red feather

Hearfelt condolences and prayers go out to all involved in the tragic loss of life and injuries of the scouts and their families.

The troop that I serve was at summer camp (some 100 miles south and in line with the tornado generating weather front) this week and when this front was deemed a threat to the camp evacuations to shelters were ordered by the camp officials.

When notified the scouts and scouters of the troop worked together and evacuated the camp in less than 10 minutes. All scouts were asleep when the evacuation was ordered and responded in the best scouting tradition. One of our first years when woken responded "What can I do to help?" and then proceeded to wake up the rest of his patrol and got them moving to our rally point. One of the most memorable responses that I heard of was "Class A's or class B's?"

The camp was not in direct danger but 'Be Prepared' was in full force.

The scouts and scouters once a head count was taken covered the distance to the shelter in best scout fashion, each patrol member taking care of each other and went up what we call 'Cardiac Hill' in record time. Head count at the shelter was delayed a bit while the count went something like 'One, gasp,gasp gasp, two, etc.'

The response of the scouts and scouters of the camp in Iowa is of the best scouting tradition andis a source of pride for the scouts of the troop and on their suggestion our campsite flags were lowered to half mast in honor of those who lost their lifes.

One of our scouts told me today that he was going to focus on first aid. emergency preparedness and the 'Be Prepared' part of scouting so that he would be ready just in case.

thought I would pass this on.

yis

Don't forget garage sales for cooking gear. Lots of good pots, pans, skillets and utensils can be picked up real cheap. If you tell the people who are holding the sale that the items are for scouts a lot of the time you can get them even cheaper or even given to you. If you are putting the patrol boxes together for 'car camping' types of overnights don't overlook getting cast iron skillets and dutch ovens at these sales and teaching the scouts how to go about reconditioning them. A lifelong skill to learn.

yis

red feather

First off congratulations on your 'promotion'

One if the things that the current CC and I did (SM) did was make a matrix of what needs to be done in what month to get the things done so that between us we would not forget much of what needs to be done when.

This is not perfect and is in a constant update mode but we do not miss much in what needs to be planned when. If we do then 'of well, we'll catch it next time'.

Get all the training you can, get WB and remember that if those who complain on how things are going, just offer them the job of correcting what they percieve as 'wrong' and move on from there.

Hopefully the troop that you serve is scout led. Let them and the SM take care of the daily stuff and be there for the other support that is needed in any troop.

hope this helps. The matrix we put together has really helped us.

yis

Red feather