red feather

Heartwood is the center core of a tree that no longer has the ability to carry nutrients up and down the trunk. This wood will still be moist and will need seasoning. Heartwood provides the structural strength of the tree or bush.

Sapwood is the outer layers of the tree or bush that is the circulatory system of the tree that moves the sap up and down the tree. The bark of the tree protects this layer. This is the layer that when pierced all the way around the trunk preventing this movement will kill the tree.

Hope this helps

yis

red feather

As a SM of the troop that I serve with 3 yrs as a SM and 12 yrs in other duties with the troop. I can relate with this conundrum.

Regardless of the experience of the current SM and the history of the scout, the issue seems to me to be one of why does this parent have so much influence on the advancement of her son?

If he is a 'fast track scout' then that is one thing.(Don't like them but they happen) If the scout is one that needs special care that is another. I wonder what the scout thinks and what he wants, nowhere have I found that question asked on this thread or in any of the responses from the oringal poster. Does the son require his dad to be there? Has anyone asked the scout what he wants?

I do not know what overnights that 'mom' demanded a parental chaperone but, I think a sit down with her is very necessary and her requirement be fully understood, Dads input might be useful also. If it is a situation where the scout needs his dad there that is one thing but to allow a helicopter mom to require this is another. Personally when a helo parent has required something I tell them to come along to insure what they want.

It is insulting to me when a parent says I trust you as an Adult Leader to take care of my son at a meeting but I do not trust you on an overnight.

Funny how they suddenly have other 'requirements' when THEY have to live up to the requirements that they 'demand'.

yis

Red feather

Welcome to the campfire. Pull up a log and have a cup of joe.

Good info in this thread. For fire starting or making purposes I prefer the dead twigs/branches from any conifer as they have pockets of pitch in them that burn hot and will get other woods started. I also keep some birch bark in my kit for fire starting. Birch bark will light in almost any situation even when wet. A small roll about an inch in diameter and 6 inches in length will work very well.

As the others have said, look up and around, you will see where the downfall has come from. Practice, practice, practice and you will come up with the best woods that your area will work for you.

You are correct in that various woods burn at different rates with different BTU output. There are many sites on the web that will lay that out for you. Don't overlook the various 'punk' woods either. Punk wood is the wood that you look for that can catch a spark, maintain it and then combust. The heart wood of many pines are great for that.

Hope this help.

yis

red feather

As a SM of the troop that I serve and working now in my 3rd year of trying for a true Scout led troop, it is a curve that is almost always up.(been with the troop 15 years)

One of the things that I have seen in the difference of my views of scouting and those of 'new' adult leaders is not so much that they were not scouts as a youth but that they have not gone through Wood Badge. They have done the outdoor training and all the other preliiminary training that we can get them. I do not know the new syllabus for WB today as I went through it before the change. ( note to those who may be in charge: let us who have gone through the old syllabus take the new one to get updated).

Developing a culture of a boy lead (I prefer Scout led) troop takes time. 3 years into it and we are just now starting to get scouts who have known nothing else but Scout led.

A SM who has known nothing else but an adult led troop can be hard to transform to a different style but if enough Asms take the training and work (maybe in a stealth mode) it can be done. I am hoping and am starting to see Asms in the Scouts troop step up and take on adult leadership positions and function within the Scout led ideal. Not there yet but getting there.

Let the SM alone, he is doing the best he knows how. Work within the system get the training and work with the Scouts and empower them when you can. You night be surprised. Work with the NSP and iniate them into backpacking or whatever that may be unique to the troop and see what happens.

yis

red feather

The troop that I serve usually has ECOHs planned by the family and the Eagle. We had one that did not plan his ECOH for 3 yrs and we contacted the family around Christmas one year and they gave him his Eagle packet as a present. Was told that it went over very well. Regardless of a ECOH or not the Eagle gets presented some way.

yis

Been trying to figure out how to respond for a while. Been there, done that and got the scars. Do not let the b***ds win! You have a connect with the youth of the troop and that is what scouting is all about. If the boys were not there then there is no reason for us to be there. It will be difficult to find a way to coexist, ignore or discount the 'rabble' that has caused your troubles, but a way is there just may take a bit of time or conivery to find it.

As the Eagle thing goes I remember some of the thread about that and I remember thinking at the time some Eagles soar and some flap. (and some parents should just go away) Thats ok, thats life. You have skills that the scouts need to learn and maybe working with them when they are new scouts or second year scouts is the answer. Or maybe working with the cubs and waiting out the ones that have caused this problem to age out is the answer. Just being there will be what the scouts need and if it iratates the adults then that's ok too. The scouts are what this scouting thing is all about. Just do not let those other people win.

Maybe go 'stealth mode', go on overnights, do your thing and help the scouts learn how to be scouts. Let the adults power stucture do their thing and just work with the scouts. Drop the merit badge counselor thing and help prepare the boys to work with another counselor. Kinda a end run thing.

Listen to me and me a Scoutmaster. Anytime you want to go 'stealth' in the troop that I serve let me know. Got a place for ya any time.

soap box broke

yis

red feather

Good info all around.

As far as personal gear, sunglasses with croakie and sunscreen. You can get a lot of bounce of sunlight off of the water so even protect the underside of the nose. Boonie style hat to protect your head and neck. In case of rain showers do not bring a poncho that turns into a shroud if you go into the water. Take a rain jacket instead. PFD! PFD!PFD! Take shoes that can be discarded after the trip as river soaked shoes tend to get a bit ripe later. No cotton clothing if you can help it as it takes forever to dry, wear nylon or other similar fabrics that dry quickly. If you wear glasses use a croakie also as it is a very bad feeling to watch them go to the bottom. Each conoe should have a throw rope in case someone needs help. Each person should have a whistle around their neck to summon help if they flip or need other emergency assistance (three blasts will summon help). A small/medium camp towel to dry off. Small waterproof cushion to sit on while canoeing and while on the beach. Each person probably should have at least 2 liters of water. Plenty of rope to tie everything to the canoe is a good thing. Be sure to leave a note with someone to let them know who is going, where you are going and when you expect to be back. Oh, and let them know when you are back so a search is not started. Can be embarrasing.

Quick thoughts and have a good time.

Common sense is always something to pack when on these trips.

yis

red feather

Not sure what the storm in the tea cup is all about. Been around awhile and it seems to me IMHO that things are a bit calm these days.

There will always be the exteme and there will always be the not extreme. Not sure I put that right but there is always a place around the campfire for ideas and opinions.

These opinions are not always agreeded upon but if we do not discuss them (with a not always good cup of joe) we will never learn what is out there that is not what we perceive.

If a campfire is dull, we all go to bed. If the discussion is anti-scouting, I for one wish to hear the anti side of the discussion and if worthy, welcome the chance to respond. On the reverse side if there are questions, asking for help, etc,etc, this is what this campfire is all about.

Remember the three monkeys, I hope I will never get that way.

yis

red feather

trick question, What is the most important word of the Scout Law?

Source, I feel your pain. The advise that you have and will receive from this campfire will not always be what you wish to hear but will be for the most part good advise.

I have been with the troop that I serve almost 16 yrs, 10 or so as ASM, couple as commitee member and after I forgot to duck, the last 2-3 yrs as SM. The troop is 40 plus years old. When I joined the troop it was a 'social club' and not a lot of scouting as I knew it. It has transitioned through many variations since then.

I have seen the troop grow from 10-15 scouts to 45-50 and back again, currently 30-35 scouts and growing. It is the growing pains that take a lot of effort to get through.

Being a SM of a troop that is established and with a good Troop Commitee and a high adventure expectation I can empathise with someone who is starting a new troop. Yours is a few years old and at least to my mind still trying to 'find' itself. A project that I would not be willing to undertake without a hard core cadre of ASMs, a working TC and a GREAT bunch of scouts. That said, it can be done but in small steps and accomplishments. It has taken almost 3 yrs to get the troop that I am with (remember 40 yrs of tradition) to get back to a scout led basis. We still have a long way to go and probably will for some time to come.

Sounds to me like your troop is getting to the stage where you are about to start that transition. Guess what, a lot more hard work is coming if that is so. Not just on the scouts part but on the leaders part, not the least that of the SM.(remember he/she has to make the transition also) Some of the decisions will not be looked upon as 'proper' but they are the decisions that the SM will make at the time. Mistakes and oopses will be made and survived. (part of the learning process of a troop)

Support of the SM is something that is necessary by his ASMs and TC. Without that the troop can be in real trouble. The SM may not be always right but he/she is SM and unless someone is willing to take on the responsiblities that come with the job the best advise I can give is support the SM and work within the framework of the troop to promote what the troop can become. Takes time and effort but it can be done. I wish you and the troop that you serve the very best and can only say have patience and understanding. Work with the framework you have a make changes where you can. Good Luck.

Hope this ramble makes some sense.

YIS

Red Feather

As a youth 63-73. Earned AOL and Eagle. Jambo in 69 and 71

As a adult 92-07. WB 95

Both sons Eagle.

Beem DL,ASM,Committee, and currently SM.

The ground is farther away and a bit harder, but still would not give up the chance to work with the young men of scouting for anything. (she who must be obeyed is of course the detemining factor in that. )

Not sure who is having more fun: the scouts, scouters, or me.

yis

We did Scouting for Food pickup. This is a local benefit for Second Harvest. Last weekend the troop placed over 1200 flyers and bags on doors requesting non perishables to be left on the door step.

We collected 4 pickup loads of food for Second Harvest. One of our largest collections and the scouts worked 9 service hours. A scout is Helpful in action.

yis

redfeather and the scouts of Troop 216

Good to see ya posting Oz. I still use the work your scouts did as the way merit badge work should be done. Your scouts did a fantastic job. Most of the scouts from that time have earned their Eagle and have moved on and recently had some of them ask if I had heard from you guys and were wondering if we could work something up like that again.

Since that time I have taken on the 'spreading the joy' job of Scoutmaster. One thing I have learned is that if you have a good program that the scouts buy into the number of adults increase. Good problem to have.

HiLo, welcome to the campfire and am looking forward to reading your posts. Oz helped open my eyes on how scouting is done in other countries.

Never been to Australia but it is on my short list of places I want to go. Have a brother that was on International Jamboree held there. Had a great time.

Welcome again

yis

Having been with the troop that I serve for almost 14 years and the last two as SM, the thing that has been a changing factor in the troop is on 4 levels.

First: Laying the groundwork of 'personal responsibility' of the scouts and adults for the troop and their own advancement. Once the scouts realized that the adults were not going to do it for them but would assist them in the accomplishment of scouting goals they have started to step up and embraced the fact that they would have to do the work.

This is currently in its second year and is showing great promise. The program could be better and it could be a lot worse. The scouts are realizing that if they want to have really neat o'nites they need to put in a little bit of effort to make it happen.

Second: Expectations! If scouts are expected to act as scouts and perform as scouts they will act as scouts and perform as scouts. Even the little things of showing pride in the scout salute, scout sign, uniform and being part of "their" troop. This takes involvement of all the scouts and adults buying into this. Not easy, but as with the scouts if there are expectations of the adult leaders they too will step up and perform as scout leaders/mentors. Not to mention creating an adult patrol and performing as such. Expect the PLC to act as a PLC. Teach them how to hold meeting and perform from month to month. Biggee one that is.

Third: Get the adult leaders involved. Outdoor program leaders assist the PLC in planning the outdoor program and provide a resourse that the PLC can access. Indoor program leaders assist the PLC in utilizing these resources. They also work on teaching the PLC and other scouts in how to become leaders.

Fourth: Letting the parents know of the 'expectations' and that the adults leaders of the troop are not the only ones involved in the growth of their sons in scouting. The more the parents are involved in some level the more resources the scouts have and the more the scouts can learn.

As SM, I have worked hard to get more adults involved. One thing that I have seen is if the scouts see adults wearing the uniform and believing in the program of scouting the more the scouts are willing to buy into the program. I have no sons in the troop they are both Eagle and are getting their own lives started. I have been informed that the adult leaders now serving the troop are glad that they have an 'old timer' involved to teach them. As scouting is for they youth, you cannot have a successful program without active adult involvement. Gotta work both fronts.

Recently told the troop that they were starting to progress from a boy lead troop to a scout lead troop. Lots of smiles all around. They are getting there. Both the scouts and the adults.

Maybe a fifth level: As an adult leader with life experiences and both formal and informal training, do things on overnights that maybe the scouts are not capable of doing yet. Tarp tenting, chicken cordon bleu, utinsiless cooking, hammock camping, etc. etc etc, whatever. Expand their envelope of possibility. Maybe be someone that years later the scout will remember that 'crazy leader' that did such and such and also remember that they did it too.

Will Rogers once said: "The only thing wrong with boy scouts is that there are not more of them."

yis

Bring your nickle and get a cup of sometimes decent camp joe and join the campfire. Always looking for new input and someone to get after.

Been in scouting 20 plus and have two brothers each with 30 years experience and my dad before he passed had 35 years time in. All of us have been or are SMs and cannot figure out how we have not learned how to duck. gotta work on that

Guess we are kinda 'doomed' to be active in scouting.

Scouting is a good thing to do and has rewards that can not be tallied up on any sheet that I know of.

gotta love it

yis

As a scoutmaster working on getting the troop to scout led, having the troop going back to known locations is not always a bad thing even when doing so at short notice.

When the PLC has requested this I have asked them what the program or theme of the o'nite will be. If it is the same ol thing, I try to challenge them to come with something new for the theme and stretch themselves in scouting skills. Some times it takes something like " I will probably do tarp camping and utinsiless cooking, you guys think you are up to that?" Amazing how often they will rise to the challenge and try to take the 'ol man' down.

Gotta love it!

yis

I am here, at least I think I am.

"If it is not for the boys, then it is not worth a dam"

Used to be a beaver

C-5-95

yis

Ditto with John, need specific information in order to provide proper suggestions. Been there before and hope never to have to do it agian.

Pmarius, welcome to the campfire and please give us more info.

yis

Ditto with John, need specific information in order to provide proper suggestions. Been there before and hope never to have to do it agian.

Pmarius, welcome to the campfire and please give us more info.

yis

Looking for information on flag dedication/presentation ceremonies. One of the troops Eagles has a flag to present to our towns Drug Strike Force to be flown on the flag pole that was his project and everyone is drawing a blank on ways to present the flag.

Thanks in advance

yis

AS a relatively new SM (2 yrs, 14 with the troop as ASM or committee) the thing that we are working toward now is the transition from a boy led troop to a scout led troop.(had elections for SPL this week with 4 scouts running for the POR )

The 'buzz word' now is "personal responsibility" of each scout for their advancement in scouting as far as rank and merit badges. This means each scout is to be responsible for their advancment working with the troop advancement chair. In todays society this is a stretch for some scouts but is a good one as they are given ownership of what they accomplish in scouting.

The key to this is the involvement of adults in the program. The troop that I serve is blessed with a growing core of adults as ASMs and as SM it is my job to get them involved and trained. Jobs as Outdoor Program ASM, Indoor Program ASM, MOS advisors, or anything else I can think of to get them involved. We have ASMs who are responsible to get the forms the troop needs to provide the program, others are responsible for overnights, summer camp, etc, etc, etc.

To me, the task of the SM is to enable as many adults and scouts as possible to learn how scouting works and to provide the program of scouting. In effect to train my replacement and train the scouts in how to prepare other scouts to take on new responsibilities.

Each scout is a unique experience. Some Scouts soar, some flap. Some Eagles soar, some flap. But as long as they reach for the sky they are Scouts/Eagles. (some just take a bit longer to get there)

Getting people involved in scouting as they need to be is at times troublesome but as has been posted here. But, 'being' the program as SM I hope will eventually get all scouts and scouters there. Just takes patience and desire. (aspirin, ibuprofin, and longer to get off the ground )

New adults to scouting have little clue to what scouting is about, and they need to have 'veterans' of scouting to help them along the way. The program is for the youth yes, but if some target is not placed on the involvement of the adults the program really cannot be done.

The SMs job is to involve as many youth and adults as possible in the scouting program. Without this partnership scouting is not going to work.

off the soap box

yis

Red Feather

(ps: The ECOH in the troop that I serve is up to the scout and parents to put together with hopefully some input from the troop and its traditions.)

To update all on our recent crossing. We had 15 Boy Scouts there to welcome the new scouts and their parents. Full uniform and willing.

We did something not done before with the pack we crossed the parents after the boys crossed. Hope this will get some volunteers out of it. The scouts in the troop are starting to realize that it is up to them to help get new scouts for the troop and that is giving them 'ownership' of the troop.

The new scout patrol had their first troop meeting last monday and working with their Troop Guides elected their patrol leader and patrol staff. They also planned their menues for their first campout (this past weekend) and learned what gear they would need and how to dress for the overnight.

7 of the 8 new scouts attended the overnight and what an overnight. Saturday morning, cold and windy, snowed saturday night ( only 2 tents blown down, fortunately not the new scouts) Freezing temps saturday and sunday morning.

Fire building demos on saturday put on by the older scouts, showing that even in rain, snow and blowing wind a fire could be built. The NSP the Red Foxes also excelled in working together as a patrol, learning how to care for troop gear, cast iron and how to cook. They did so well that they edged out 4 other patrols for our Golden Skillet award for cooking and patrol method.

Asked if they had fun it was unanimous and their enthusiasm was high.

All credit goes to the other scouts in the troop that stepped up and worked hard to provide a positive scouting experience.

Made we realize (again) why I do this.

yis

Thanks Anarchist, hadn't twigged to the Coke thing. (duh) will try that on a old skllet that I have been trying to decide if it was recoverable.

Thanks again

yis

Getting rid of rust can be a challenge. I have recovered many cast iron skillets and Dutch Ovens. Some just needed a good sanding of the rust spots if they were small, reheated and the reseasoning started. Some however that had really mistreated required more serious measures. (one old Griswold, 90 plus years old used as a planter, needed sand blasting)

The ones that needed Iron EMT type work were cleaned of rust as much as possible then on an overnight or after a home BBQ were filled with coals and heated till almost red. This will burn out the rust residue and allow the deeper rust to be removed. Once the iron has cooled enough to handle with good leather gloves the iron is cleaned of all residues with paper towels and allowed to cool to the point that the oil for reseaoning will not smoke. When the oil will not smoke the first seasoning is done, then the DO or skillet is allowed to cool to the touch. Reheat the item and reseason. It may take 4-6 times of this reheating process to recover the iron. (don't forget to season the outside and handle)

Remember that heating the iron opens up the 'pores' of the iron and the cooling seals in the 'seasoning'. Cheaper iron is not worth the effort I have found as the quality of the iron is not conducive to the seasoning process. ('pores' too large or small? don't know) But good quality iron, Griswold, Lodge and some of the older iron is very much worth it.

Frying chicken in an iron skillet is a great way to start reseasoning a challenged iron skillet.

Hopes this helps if you want more info let me know.

ps: have recovered old iron waffle makers this way also, just takes patience

yis

To answer your question..... as many as you can get !

If you have a parent willing to go to training and uniform up and put forth the time to be an ASM go for them ! ( one of them may be a future SM )

The troop that I serve has had as few as 2 and as many as 15 ASMs. We average around 30 scouts over the 14 years that I have been with the troop.

Don't forget those that who may not want to be ASMs can do good service on the committee.

yis

Not sure if I have any good info as this is only my second bridging of new scouts into the troop. There has been two scouts (one an Eagle Candidate and the other a Life working on his Eagle) assigned as troop guides to this new scout patrol. We keep the scouts together so they can advance together. An adult leader has also come forward to be the mentor of the troop guides and point contact for the new scouts parents. Oh, both of the assigned troop guides volunteered for this duty.

One thing that I have noticed is that my enthusiasm as SM to welcome the new scouts has caught hold of the other memebers of the troop, explaining the need of the troop for new scouts and how this helps ensure the future of the troop has gotten 13 of our scouts to sign up to attend the crossover. (almost half!) Hope this works out as planned and will know how it goes after the Blue and Gold and then a year from now.

Letting the scouts of the troop know the importance of new scouts and explaining to them that the future of the troop is in the hands of the scouts allows them to take 'ownership' of the troops future. Kinda neat how scouts will step up to expectations.

yis