perdidochas

Learn and say, to me means to recite from memory. (and, no I don't fail a kid for getting things in the wrong order). I don't think it's that honerous of a requirement, and I have never had a Cub not get their Bobcat.

"I both agree and disagree with the above. I think memorization is important, and so I do test my Bobcat candidates. That said, rarely do any kids fail (as I do gentle guidance). IMHO, without the chance of failure, there is no chance of success. "

No where does it say the Scout has to memorize the words to the Promise or Law of the Pack, it says "learn and say" as well as "Do Your Best". I would not "Fail" any Scout for not being able to say them, they should be able to explain the concepts of both and with help, get the words out, but not have to memorize, that will come with time in Scouting IMO. Do people honestly want a Scout's first attempt at an advancement (Bobcat) to be such an ordeal?

There are three things to memorize, IMHO.

Scout promise, Scout Law and Scout motto. I agree, for Tigers, that's an ordeal for some to learn (that's why I guided them a lot). However, for my Webelos Is (4 new ones), it's not an ordeal--besides the ones who didn't look at it at all, all got it first try.

Personally, that's why I'm against Tigers getting Bobcat first. It makes much more sense for Tigers to get the Tiger Badge first, and then earn the Bobcat. However, when I was a Tiger Cub leader (the first year of the Bobcat first), we did earn it in the order prescribed.

The other side is that the kids who do the memorization, and are successful at it, they do truly have a sense of accomplishment. Just saying it doesn't leave that same sense. Giving an award that the child doesn't feel he truly worked for and deserved doesn't provide much in true self esteem.

I've got a conundrum, based on advice I've heard from different Webelos leaders.

I'm a first year Web I leader (have been a Bear and Tiger Cub leader). My Web II leader is of little or no help, as he's extremely busy, and our Web IIs meet with the Boy Scout Troop on a different night.

My conundrum is whether to have each meeting as primarily an activity badge class, or if I should incorporate more team building exercises into it. I've heard different Webelos leaders around the District advocate both approaches.

In Cub Scouts the bottom line is "Do Your Best". BSA specifically states that Cubs should NOT be tested. That they should NOT be placed in a position where they are set up to fail.

I both agree and disagree with the above. I think memorization is important, and so I do test my Bobcat candidates. That said, rarely do any kids fail (as I do gentle guidance). IMHO, without the chance of failure, there is no chance of success.

 Parents know when their son has done his best. If the parents sign off on a requirement (ANY requirement) then it is a done deal. As much as some do not like it, we MUST accept what parents tell us their son has completed.

True.

Lem wrote:

I don't want to be a scoutmaster for the reason that I have indeed found this organization to be way too flawed and strange for me or my boys. And I probably wouldn't make a very good scoutmaster anyways. I am one of those guys that just doesn't get scouting as it is today.

You seem to base this mostly on your own experience in Cubs and Webelos, at least from my readings.

I'm still not sure what is so wrong with Scouting, other than your perception that scouts are Special Olympics material.

Boy's not interested, Dad is nothing but complaints....

Don't count on them staying in scouts too long.

In the meantime, ask Dad to organize or run an event or outing of some sort. Either he will step up to the task and have some appreciation for all you do, or he will run for the hills and you'll be rid of him.

Yes, exactly. Who knows, maybe you'll get a new leader out of it.

I see it as everybody's problem. All will be negatively effected by it.

It's a scout's problem, because soon he won't have a troop if the trend continues.

Some councils have polar bear badges. Our Pack used to offer them for kids who camped in weather below 40 degrees (we're in north Florida).

Packsaddle,

From my viewpoint, the only time the GW Bush bashing stopped was for a few months after 9/11/01. Other than that it was continuous.

I've heard conservatives joke that as a minority party, we should be as welcoming of Obama, as the democrats were of Bush...... If so, it's going to be a tough couple of years....

My memory is not what it used to be, but I do remember the anger by many Democrats who felt the election was stolen by the Republicans. I do NOT remember President Bush being treated to the kind of personal attacks that continue, or have gotten worse, against Obama.

I think it's a matter of personal perspective. I personally think that the rage against Obama is pretty much over. The rage against Bush still exists and never ended, IMHO. (then again, I am a conservative).

Most people that I know who boycott Domino's do it, because the former owner of Domino's is a prominent financial supporter of the pro-life movement. However, he sold Domino's in 1998, and has nothing to do with the company anymore--his current interest is in the Ave Maria foundation. (at least according to snopes.com)

Just want to add: I don't have Boy Scout age boys yet. I have a Webelos I and a Bear in the house. At this time, I don't plan to make Eagle a requirement for a DL with either of them. I may make it a requirement for me paying for car insurance, but I'm still undecided on that issue.

To some degree, you can analogize requiring Eagle Scout before getting a driver's license to getting a college degree for getting a job. Most things involved in getting a college degree have little or nothing to do with your actual future job. However, getting a degree proves that you can stick to something for a long period of time. An Eagle is the same way.

Have they called the families to ask them why? The best way that I know to keep the Cubs in the Pack is to give them a good Scout program. If they are having fun, they will stay. If the Pack/den is disorganized, boring, and does not deliver the program promised, the families will go elsewhere.

We routinely have several boys who sign up, but who never show up after school night. When I was Tiger Cub Leader, I called up a few such scouts' parents, and they all said that family things came up.

Thanks for the info.

Here's a link to the BSA national site on equipment:

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34-49.pdf

OK, with a few states still uncounted, it's 62 million Americans and 6%. Maybe not a mandate, but he won by a larger margin than G. Bush.

Bigger that GW, but not bigger than GHW in 1998.

DanKroh wrote

The two things are not the same. Not by a long shot. Never before, to the best of my knowledge, has a right that a group of people already had, *been taken away* by a vote of the majority.

I guess you've never heard of Prohibition (i.e. the 18th Amendment)

On gay marriage:

Why not compromise with a civil union that has all the rights of marriage, with a different name?

SR540Beaver has a good point.

I will shut my mouth in the political arena on this board.

Why shouldnt George W Bush or William J Clinton be able to be elected president as many times as they can be elected?

Well, because the Constitution was amended by the people to prevent it. Somebody must have thought it was important.

George Washington set an honorable precedent that a president only serve two terms.  This precedent was followed up until FDR, who won 4 terms.  The two term limit was passed after FDR in retaliation for FDR's lack of honoring Washington's precedent.

ScoutmomSD wrote: I came to this forum truly trying to find out about boy scouts and now sadly, I will have to back out of this forum for a while. I will lurk but forget posting. Those of you who are still spouting the "hate speak" including those in the McCain audience last night who booed when the name Obama was mentioned, need to seriously look in the mirror. I dont care who you voted for, as you ALL said in the last 8 years "have respect for the office".

And most of us will.

Look I know lots of you live in Red States and maybe havent travelled much.

That is such a condescending comment. 

 This last June I was lucky enough to visit Chicago and have stood in the spot where Obama made history last night. I have now been to almost every large city in the US including Boston, Dallas, Seattle, Baltimore, DC, New Orleans, Miami, Denver and more. I have also been to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean.

I've been to most of those as well (haven't been to Seattle or Boston, though), as well as Europe and Asia, despite having been raised in two red states. 

I have also been lucky enough in the past to work with and get to know people all over the country in my past jobs. My favorite thing about travel is getting to go to where the natives not the tourists live. I have developed an appreciation of the diversity and colors of this country and its territories that make it great. The reason that Obama won was exactly that. The reason that the Republicans lost is that people especially the YOUTH and the diverse section of our country (in California the non white population is approaching a majority) are tired of being preached at as to what is right and wrong. This is a HUGE vote against the "old white guy" vote.

Probably so, however, to vote for a person for racial reasons alone is blatantly racist. 

Sorry, and remember I am happily married to an "old white guy". A white registered republican who voted for Obama and against prop 8. The vote is saying "status quo is NOT okay". I am so happy to live in the US.

We are happy to live here as well.  Most of us right wingers are a little hurt and disappointed today.  We see the free enterprise foundations of this country about to be lost because of voters like the woman in St. Petersburg who recently said that when Obama wins she will no longer have to pay her mortgate. 

However I am very dissatisfied with the tone and undercurrent of this forum. I am frightened for the children of folks who would boo a new president.

I agree totally about this.  However, it's not new.  GW Bush was booed in 2000 quite a bit. 

I was 10 years old when Martin Luther King jr was shot. 2 months later my father died of a long battle with leukemia. One month after that Robert Kennedy was assasinated. This is a period of intolerance and sadness which is branded on my brain. Scouting is about the kids having a good time, not about brainwashing kids to become the intolerant right wing of the future.

I agree that the intolerant right wing is wrong. However, I also don't think most right wingers are intolerant.  I am just as much against the intolerant left wing.

I leave you with the following quote from Martin Luther King Jr. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in Letter from a Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963. Please put your kids first and teach tolerance. You dont have to agree but please teach your kids so we are not doomed to repeat the past. And to paraphrase Jesus, love each other more than you love yourself, and he who is without sin, can cast the first stone. take care - signing off.

I agree. That was the writing of a great Republican, MLK.  Please make sure your party takes that into consideration. 

BadenP wrote: Man, listen to all the ultra conservatives in here whine and complain, lol. McCain lost this election over a year ago guys, his more of the same positions did not fool the American people, and the selection of Palin was the last nail in his coffin. You all watched history being made last night. The good old boy network is being dismantled piece by piece and the redneck right wing politics of old are disappearing forever. We have elected a president who will lead us into the future and not further into the past like the last eight years. The people have spoken!

We will see. McCain was a hope to end government corruption. Obama will just be business as usual--he's only a new face to the corrupt Chicago politicians of the past and present. I hope I'm wrong, and good happens from Obama's presidency. I will give him a chance, at least until summer, to prove himself as something other than the same-old same-old.

If this mandate allows for online courses to count for New Leader Essentials, I don't see the problem with this.